Soloing

[Kimbabig]

In the studio where you have many chances to re-take a performance' date=' certainly theory is something that can be looked at as a secondary discipline. But just imagine if you had a good understanding of theory and the ability to write. You could lay down four different solos through the same chord progression, and all would carry a central theme that would fit in its on unique way..... Theory definitely gives more opportunities to a player IMO.[/quote']

Yes but theory only teaches orthodox techniques and if people use those as their playing guidelines we would'nt have any crazy stuff.

[Californiaman]

How could you get it "right" if all music opinionated on whomever is listening?

The absence of theory is not the manifestation of chaos. Neither me nor DemOOn said anything about random notes. Just because we are not using "theory" does not make us any less of musicians. You think we really play random crap well You've got another thing coming' date=' we do use "theory" in our music it is just not the same "theory" you use.[/quote']

 

 

Getting it right involved clicking the right answer on the quiz.

This is an interesting discussion non-the-less.

No one said you and dem00n were any less of a musician.

It also sounds like you need to chill.

It's a simple discussion. Maybe chaos was the wrong term.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

 

I'll say this about the original question:

It was a simple question.

Before this thread turns into a flame-fest the use of the relative minor to solo is theoretically correct.

So using C# Minor was the correct answer.

[ShredAstaire]

My question now that i know the "right" answer, is can you write a solo that fits in with teh progression with the other options you mentioned? I really don't know and would like to.

[Californiaman]

and I'm not taking a personal shot at you or dem00n.

I'm sure you have your justifications for crafting a solo the way you do.

I like Duane's answer: "...if you had a good understanding of theory and the ability to write," you're a very effective musician.

[duane v]

Yes but theory only teaches orthodox techniques and if people use those as their playing guidelines we would'nt have any crazy stuff.

 

I have to disagree:

 

Here's one of the most unorthodox chord progressions for a very very popular rock song, with a great vocal line that maneuvers through it like well oiled harp.

 

A, Em7, F#7, D, E, F#, Dmaj7, A

[FirstMeasure]

Yes but theory only teaches orthodox techniques and if people use those as their playing guidelines we would'nt have any crazy stuff.

This statement is a perfect example of the general misunderstanding of Theory. Knowing what a Flatted Fifth is won't steal your soul, you'll just know that you used a flatted fifth as opposed to "The note behind the note I just played". here's a little illustration.....Which conversation would be easier to have in the rehearsal?

 

Rhythm Guitar - "What chord did you just play? that sounded killer"

 

Lead player - "It was a Gmajor7th up at the 10th fret"

 

-OR-

 

Rhythm Player - "What Chord did you just play? That sounded killer."

 

Lead Player - "Well, index finger on the A String Tenth Fret, Ring Finger on the D String 12th Fret, Middle Finger on the G String 11th Fret, Pinky on the B String 12th Fret."

[DAS44]

Depends on my mood.

[FirstMeasure]

My question now that i know the "right" answer' date=' is can you write a solo that fits in with teh progression with the other options you mentioned? I really don't know and would like to. [/quote']

Oh Yeah, you could.

 

E Minor Scales over E Major Chords will sound very Bluesy or even a little country. Jerry Reed does that all the time.

 

A Major over E Major may have some dissonance, while many of the note will sound like your playing in E Major, some will get kinda Jazzy.

 

B Major over E Major....you'll have to try that one and let me know, that may have to many dissonant tones and sound like Hogs Mating.

[eallenb]

DAS44

#32 Posted : Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:01:20 AM Quote

Rank: Advanced Member

 

 

 

Joined: 9/12/2009

Posts: 3,110

Location: Halfway to everywhere

 

Depends on my mood.

Dom________________________________________________________________________________

 

In the beginning God created..............then there was Jazz a second day........... 2nd eallenb3:2

I concur Dom +1

[L5Larry]

This discussion sure took a left turn.

 

So let me see if I have this all correct. The greatest solos are played by people that don't have a clue what their playing, and the less you actually know about guitar playing the better you will be.

 

OK, I think I've got it.

[zigzag]

Those who use the excuse that learning theory will hurt their playing or stifle their creativity are the ones who don't take their music seriously. I'm amazed at the few who knew the correct answer to the question. We are perpetuating the stereotype that guitar players don't know music.

[Californiaman]

Oh Yeah' date=' you could.

 

E Minor Scales over E Major Chords will sound very Bluesy or even a little country. Jerry Reed does that all the time.

 

A Major over E Major may have some dissonance, while many of the note will sound like your playing in E Major, some will get kinda Jazzy.

 

B Major over E Major....you'll have to try that one and let me know, that may have to many dissonant tones and sound like Hogs Mating.[/quote']

 

All around good point.

[ShredAstaire]

Oh Yeah' date=' you could.

 

E Minor Scales over E Major Chords will sound very Bluesy or even a little country. Jerry Reed does that all the time.

 

A Major over E Major may have some dissonance, while many of the note will sound like your playing in E Major, some will get kinda Jazzy.

 

B Major over E Major....you'll have to try that one and let me know, that may have to many dissonant tones and sound like Hogs Mating.[/quote']

 

Cool thanks...good to know and i appreciate the descriptions as well.

[eallenb]

L5Larry

 

This discussion sure took a left turn.

 

So let me see if I have this all correct. The greatest solos are played by people that don't have a clue what their playing, and the less you actually know about guitar playing the better you will be.

 

OK, I think I've got it.

 

Not my point! Before theory there was concept. We heard, We played, We copied.

From our notion, theory came about so we could all

FirstMeasure

 

This statement is a perfect example of the general misunderstanding of Theory. Knowing what a Flatted Fifth is won't steal your soul, you'll just know that you used a flatted fifth as opposed to "The note behind the note I just played". here's a little illustration.....Which conversation would be easier to have in the rehearsal?

 

Rhythm Guitar - "What chord did you just play? that sounded killer"

 

Lead player - "It was a Gmajor7th up at the 10th fret"

My 2 cents after inflation[biggrin]

[zigzag]

E Minor Scales over E Major Chords will sound very Bluesy or even a little country. Jerry Reed does that all the time.

 

Jimmy Herring wrote an interesting article about laying different scales over each other in Guitar Player about a year ago. Good point. Makes me want to look for the article.

[cookieman15061]

Not most of the time' date=' you have no idea how many guitar players out there right great solos without thorey and chord progression.[/quote']

 

How many?

[mcmurray]

Key doesn't matter. Functionally they're all the same.

[rocketman]

Yes theory should be involved, but there is more than one right answer. A mixolydian scale can add some real contrast to the solo, which I love to use in major chords. Alex Lifeson likes to use this scale and Tom Sawyer is a perfect example on how cool it can sound.

[Look! Im guitarest!]

C# is the relative minor so it has the correct notes, but it might sounds weird. The rest don't work. If I want to create something bluesy, I use a blues scale in place of a minor scale.

[Look! Im guitarest!]

Not most of the time' date=' you have no idea how many guitar players out there right great solos without thorey and chord progression.[/quote']Yeah, you just have to have a feel for where the notes are.

 

And OP, did you get this idea from an online ad?

[milod]

Well... I dunno.

 

Given that functionally I guess you could say I'm playing kinda a combination of very straight fingerstyle elevator music with a few fancy chords and stuff, I've gotta admit I don't think in terms of playing key on top of a key.

 

Mostly my head thinks more in terms of phrasing, I think... melody and phrasing. I'm not sure it's easy to describe what I'm hearing in my head, but I get the strong impression it's largely 1930s-ish.

 

But another factor - nobody said what "style" would be played...

 

m

[Look! Im guitarest!]

It's best to use an E-major scale. The rest sound bad. When I improvise to a song, first I find the root note, and then construct the scale. Using the other scales really doesn't work. There's a lot of people on here who don't know ****. I'm not crazy about theory, but come on! The second most popular option is "E minor" "Oh, they both are E so they go together!"

[mcmurray]

None of the poll choices are correct.

 

C# minor is incorrect. Treating C# as the minor tonic in an E major progression simply doesn't make sense. If the progression is E major, then E is the tonic. End of story.

[mcmurray]

You have to craft a killer solo for a song in the key of E Major.

Which key do you use to solo in.

I will post the correct answer later.

 

If you're writing a solo for a song in the key of E major, the correct key for the solo is E major. Alternatively one of the major sounding modes could also work, i.e. E Lydian or E Mixolydian.

[Robin Nahum]

You have to craft a killer solo for a song in the key of E Major.

Which key do you use to solo in.

 

I know what you're asking but I would like to throw in some thoughts. I hope they are in line with what you are trying to do.

 

Which Minor?

 

As somebody noted above C#m is the relative 6th of E major and the scale of C#m is a more "natural" choice than the others because it is diatonic with E major - provided we are talking about C#m natural or aeolian. The structure is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 and the notes with a root of C# are C# D# E F# G# A B which are all in E major.

 

But there are other minors. These include C#m melodic minor (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7) or C#m harmonic minor (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7). These might not work so well - but then again they might depending on how you manage the out-of-key notes.

 

Key of E

 

A lot of pop/rock and folk is in the one key in the sense that all the chords are derived from the one scale. Often the chords are I' date=' IV V7 and VIm or in this case, E A B7 and C#m.

 

Once you move into jazz and classical and more complex rock - or folk music from non-Anglo cultures, the chords may not be from the one key and you need to deal with this in your soloing.

 

For instance, when improvising in jazz, a standard approach is to identify the "tone centres". These are short sequences of bars that do have chords from the one key. For instance |Dm7 G7 |Cmaj7 | are in C major so you would be "safe" (no discords) playing notes from the key of C major for these two bars. But they might be followed by |Em7 A7|Dmaj7 |. The tone centre has now shifted from D so for the second two bars, you would, if playing safely, choose notes out of the scale of D major.

 

So where does this leave the key signature at the beginning of the chart?

 

I now simply think of it as something that tells me whereabouts on the staff the melody line is played. For instance, if a song in the Real Book is in the key of C and the first note is A, I know that if I transpose the song to say Bb, the first note will need to be G.

 

I don't think of the key signature as something that tells me what chords are allowed. I expect that a song in C will have other chords besides Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 and Bm7b5 and their extensions.

 

Which brings me to my last point.

 

[b']What Are the Other Chords?[/b]

 

If the rest of the chords in this song are not diatonic with E major, I would probably not be sticking with C#m natural as a base for the entire solo.

 

What's the point of all this theory :-? Basically efficiency and accuracy if you're improvising. You simply don't have the option of trying stuff out; the note has to be right first time.

 

But it also helps you compose. You get a sense of how solos will sound depending on which notes are used. Very typically, playing the 3rd or the 7th of the chord help the listener hear the chord change under the solo line. Playing a 1 or a 5 tends to resolve the idea. Non-diatonic notes can be used to create tension.

 

RN