aharps Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 MarxBros why are you here? You enjoy 'fighting' over the internet? Real big man eh? Look people here like epiphones. Yes they make some crap entry level stuff. But they also make decent quality instruments that with a few mods give you a guitar that will rival a gibson in most ways. Take the kings of leon for an example. A band who have headlined possibly the most famous stage in the world (Pyramid at Glastonbury) he did so using a Sheraton II. Nor a pre gibson buyout one. He's got access to any gibson he wants, but for touring he uses his epi. They play well (with a bit of care and setting up), sound good (once modded a bit) and look decent too. Nobody is saying an epiphone is better than gibson out of the box, because obviously they arent (appart from extreme cases e.g. duff gibby, amazing epi) just that they can be made pretty great with £200/£300 worth of upgrades. Stop trying to argue for arguings sake, it makes you seem infantile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianScout Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 when you can take an Epi of your choice, mod and upgrade it to your satisfaction and get pretty damned close to that Gibson 2500 guitar I don't see why more people don't buy these.. I love mine, you couldn't trade me straight across for the gibson model of each epi I own.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 It's already been suggested but in not so many words. The people on this forum are not typical of the 'guitar-buying public' largely because they, as a group, have much more knowledge about guitars than the average Joe- who, for the most part, has no knowledge whatsoever of Epiphone's history. The only 'Epiphones' they know about are the 'Asian knock-offs' of today to which you refer. BTW, I tend to think many of the Korean-made guitars can hold their own with any of them. Anybody ever played a Swing guitar, for instance? I also think there is nothing at all 'cheap' about many of the modern Sammicks, either. Be careful that you're not perceived like the Ford dealer in South Carolina who is running ads right now attacking Honda and Toyota for being 'rice-ready, not road ready' (whatever that means). Man, that's rich. Some rube actually thinks Hondas or Toyotas don't compare quality-wise to a Fix Or Repair Daily 'Ford'!* What a joke! Ironically, I'm sure many of the hicks down there buy into his ****. *For you old guys: remember back in the '80s when Ford's advertising slogan was "Ford: Where Quality is Job 1". Yeah, that worked real well, didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Have to say...although sometimes volatile, this forum is bloody good fun! (or maybe it's because I had my last exam of this semester this morning, which means only one more semester of graduate school to go, yippee...), and I have just popped open the first can of Boddingtons. I had a look at the main Stratocaster forum a couple of days ago. They spend a lot of time worrying about the precise tension of the springs in 2-point floating bridges over there... Here, you can get a lot of brilliant advice from very knowledgable people, and lively debate too... Let's keep it "friendly" lively debate, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Next these guys are going to tell me my PRS SE is not really a Paul Reed Smith. And Dear Epi,for xmas i'd like a, ahh go ahead and surprise me!!!Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 It's only entertainment, don't get so worked up about some of the posts. Maybe it's my good mood of late that has me grinning at all of this. Then again, maybe it's gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty3693 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Stan good point about the PRS SE but why do you all get so worked up over little things a guitar isnt good because of its price its good for the way you want to play it thats why i enjoy les pauls they rock harder and sing the blues to me anyway btw les pauls play jazz nicely Wrighty2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I know you LOVE to start this Yeehaw' date=' and fuel it, at every oportunity...that's fine, but you offer no (real) alternatives, or haven't as of yet! So, you want to be a "King Mixer," and "get everybody at each other," fine...have a ball... Doesn't and won't bother me, in the slightest! CB [/quote'] You know Charlie, I realize you want to appear "Beatle-like" by using phrases like "King Mixer" and using quotes from Beatle movies but you do realize that that the Beatles NEVER used expressions like those..they were written by a guy named Alun Owen and a lot of the lines your "Boys" (that's a scary consideration) thought were "naff" and were things they'd never really say.....just wanted to say that... Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicester35 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You know Charlie' date=' I realize you want to appear "Beatle-like" by using phrases like "King Mixer" and using quotes from Beatle movies but you do realize that that the Beatles NEVER used expressions like those..they were written by a guy named Alun Owen and a lot of the lines your "Boys" (that's a scary consideration) thought were "naff" and were things they'd never really say.....just wanted to say that... Nelson[/quote'] Good writer, though, Alun Owen. A Welshman who grew up in Liverpool and developed an ear for imitating those around him...so although some of his expressions may have appeared "naff" to the Beatles, they probably were developed from the Beatles' own sayings... "Naff" has an interesting etymology...from the language of the Roma (Romany Gypsies in pre-PC days), it was absorbed into Polari, which was a type of patois used by gay British men in the 1950s and '60s, (when homosexuality was still a criminal offence in the U.K. and ambiguity was useful). "Naff" entered the national lexicon through a radio show called "Round the Horne," in which two camp characters named Julian & Sandy (one played by Kenneth Williams) appeared. So I guess John Lennon did enjoy BBC radio programmes, from the Goons onwards... Apologies, I'm a librarian by profession. One acquires this crap as one works at the reference desk, and then regurgitates it after a glass of wine or two...or three. Or a bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 MarxBros why are you here? You enjoy 'fighting' over the internet? Real big man eh? Look people here like epiphones. Yes they make some crap entry level stuff. But they also make decent quality instruments that with a few mods give you a guitar that will rival a gibson in most ways. Take the kings of leon for an example. A band who have headlined possibly the most famous stage in the world (Pyramid at Glastonbury) he did so using a Sheraton II. Nor a pre gibson buyout one. He's got access to any gibson he wants' date=' but for touring he uses his epi. They play well (with a bit of care and setting up), sound good (once modded a bit) and look decent too. Nobody is saying an epiphone is better than gibson out of the box, because obviously they arent (appart from extreme cases e.g. duff gibby, amazing epi) just that they can be made pretty great with £200/£300 worth of upgrades. Stop trying to argue for arguings sake, it makes you seem infantile.[/quote'] Marx Brothers has been here since this forum started...back before the Epi Mods eliminated everyone with a brain and let the current crop of post-crazy idiots take over because they were so intoxicated with the idea of owning some Asian copy that they'd never say anything negative about them. Shut up and you might learn something...but don't let it worry you if you don't...no one is really expecting that you will. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You know Charlie' date=' I realize you want to appear "Beatle-like" by using phrases like "King Mixer" and using quotes from Beatle movies but you do realize that that the Beatles NEVER used expressions like those..they were written by a guy named Alun Owen and a lot of the lines your "Boys" (that's a scary consideration) thought were "naff" and were things they'd never really say.....just wanted to say that... Nelson[/quote'] Well, "my boys" is only an affectionate reference, to my favorite band. No "gay" intentions, whatsoever. My "Beatle" quotes/references, are all well intentioned, to try to keep things on a bit "lighter" side. And, I'm quite well aware (as any Beatles fan is) of Alun Owen, and where those sayings came from. And...you don't (really) KNOW, what The Beatles would have said...except what's been printed, or on film...just like the rest of us! So, what's really on your mind? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Greg, for the record, what exactly is it that needs to be learned - and why? I think I understand (and probably agree with) where you're coming from but I don't want to assume anything. Enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Good writer' date=' though, Alun Owen. A Welshman who grew up in Liverpool and developed an ear for imitating those around him...so although some of his expressions may have appeared "naff" to the Beatles, they probably [i']were[/i] developed from the Beatles' own sayings... "Naff" has an interesting etymology...from the language of the Roma (Romany Gypsies in pre-PC days), it was absorbed into Polari, which was a type of patois used by gay British men in the 1950s and '60s, (when homosexuality was still a criminal offence in the U.K. and ambiguity was useful). "Naff" entered the national lexicon through a radio show called "Round the Horne," in which two camp characters named Julian & Sandy (one played by Kenneth Williams) appeared. So I guess John Lennon did enjoy BBC radio programmes, from the Goons onwards... Apologies, I'm a librarian by profession. One acquires this crap as one works at the reference desk, and then regurgitates it after a glass of wine or two...or three. Or a bottle. This was the most interesting post I've read here in weeks. I love etymology. After my break up with my ex the first three relationships were with three very different British women (I don't know how it happened but my ex did mention she wondered about my apparent Brit fetish)..the first was a true Cockney born in the Smoke and all that...she was also Jewish so between the apples and pears were more than a few oy veys..interesting to say the least...the next one was a Yorkshire girl by way of Liverpool and twenty years in Oz...she should have come with subtitles...couldn't understand her most of the time lol...and finally another Londoner.. this time a West End girl and this time someone who was of half Russian Jewish descent who was raised in both England and Spain... so for about four and a half years I was exposed to some interesting vocabulary. I spent a little over two years back and forth between here and there so I did pick up a lot of slang and did become able to understand a lot of the Brit accents (A lot of Americans are surprised to learn there's more than one lol) well, maybe not the Geordy but who can?...and I did pick up some terms like "naff" but it was funnier to hear a proper West End girl using American slang she picked up from me. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Greg' date=' for the record, what exactly is it that needs to be learned - and why? Ithink I understand where you're coming from but I don't want to assume anything. Enlighten us. [/quote'] Oh, I don't know Ron. Why does anyone go to any guitar forum and ask any questions if there's nothing to be learned...and when they ask the question do they want to get a factual answer or an ego-based line of sh!t? This place has become sad. Some of these clowns who have nothing more than a line of sh!t have taken over this place and as pathetic as they are they the real losers are those who do want to learn something more than what the delusional are offering. If people didn't want to learn something they wouldn't come here. . I offer real information. If you want it it's there, if you don't, ignore it but I am not a cheerleader or a support group for imported guitar owners. I know what I know and if someone wants I'll share it...I'm sorry but it's also difficult for me to ignore the abject ignorance displayed here...to say nothing of the crap that is such a line of bullsh!t.. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 .... I am not a cheerleader or a support group for imported guitar owners. Do you have objections to imported guitars themselves or just the silly, low-self-esteem comparisons to higher-quality products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Do you have objections to imported guitars themselves or just the silly' date=' low-self-esteem comparisons to higher-quality products?[/quote'] I guess the thing is if people had the accurate assessment from jump about the product that comparison stuff wouldn't even be necessary. I think the majority of people know what they're buying and can deal with it. There's nothing wrong or inferior in the sense of having a functional inferiority with Epiphone guitars but the entire basis of the Epiphone V. Gibson argument isn't about the products at all...it's about some Epiphone owner who can't grasp that the two are different by design and one is made fully with the intention of being a lesser grade product. It's just so childish and maybe it is about low self-esteem...I drive a Tahoe (until I can unload it anyway lol) and I don't pull up along aside an Escalade and think...oh, my Chevy is everything that Cadillac is since they are vaguely related. It's also about appreciation of the finer things in life...you may not personally have this but many do...and yeah, the Gibson is a higher end product and the Epiphone is the cheap seats...and that's just the facts.. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 ... It's also about appreciation of the finer things in life...you may not personally have this..... I have a great appreciation for "the finer things in life" but I simply can't afford them. But I'm not ahamed of that' date=' nor do I need to rationalize as do so many here. Sure, one brother has a Lexus SC400 and the other has a Mercedes. Both are, of course, [i']very[/i] nice cars. Do I wish I had one? Sure! But I can't, and that's OK. I make do with a Taurus and a Civic, which are exactly what they are - no more, no less. I had Gibsons when I was a kid (like a schmuck, I sold them) - they were wonderful guitars, and certainly superior to my Epiphone in every way. I wouldn't think to compare them. My Epiphone is simply what it is - a nice, inexpensive imported guitar, made to resemble a Gibson. Besides the Epi vs. Gibby BS, I'm often annoyed by the sheer amount of misinformation that's passed on this site as gospel. Pots, caps, nuts, tailpieces, etc. ("Better tone", "more sustain"). I may not be a guitar expert but I know BS (or at least major exaggeration) when I see it. I also differ from a lot of others here in that I'd rather have one nice Gibson (or other professional-quality) guitar than 4 Epiphones (or other Asian knockoff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I have a great appreciation for "the finer things in life" but I simply can't afford them. But I'm not ahamed of that' date=' nor do I need to rationalize as do so many here. Sure, one brother has a Lexus SC400 and the other has a Mercedes. Both are, of course, [i']very[/i] nice cars. Do I wish I had one? Sure! But I can't, and that's OK. I make do with a Taurus and a Civic, which are exactly what they are - no more, no less. I had Gibsons when I was a kid (like a schmuck, I sold them) - they were wonderful guitars, and certainly superior to my Epiphone in every way. I wouldn't think to compare them. My Epiphone is simply what it is - a nice, inexpensive imported guitar, made to resemble a Gibson. Besides the Epi vs. Gibby BS, I'm often annoyed by the sheer amount of misinformation that's passed on this site as gospel. Pots, caps, nuts, tailpieces, etc. ("Better tone", "more sustain"). I may not be a guitar expert but I know BS (or at least major exaggeration) when I see it. I also differ from a lot of others here in that I'd rather have one nice Gibson (or other professional-quality) guitar than 4 Epiphones (or other Asian knockoff). I'm certainly not rich either but given a choice of five Epiphones or one very nice Gibson I'm going for the Gibson...yeah, both of my brothers did better than I did (punks lol)..The part I hate about this is that I ultimately have to diminish Epiphones to get my point across...and there's nothing wrong with Epiphones...they just aren't up to what a Gibson is and aren't intended to be but when you have these jokers that want to be big shots and have all this performing experience and own these collections and yet Epiphones are still the best ever me thinks they probably haven't played outside of their garage and those couple of Epiphones they post photos of are their entire "collection"...and there'd be nothing wrong with that but they're so busy bullsh!tting and validating their guitars as well as themselves that it's fukking pathetic...and then you have these poor creatures completely devoid of anything vaguely resembling a life who continuously post crap day after day... just painfully lame and inane sh!t...day after day...and trying to come off as knowing something by regurgitating what they've read here and in the one or two books they may have....get a life for Christ's sake... Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Nelson, why so rude today? You're dissing all the benevolent regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Nelson' date=' why so rude today? You're dissing all the benevolent regulars.[/quote'] That's an interesting term.."benevolent regulars" because it implies that these particular regulars enhance the quality of the forum when in fact they only increase the misinformation level and signal to noise ratios...I do have a nasty reputation and I admit that I sometimes can be quite rude... that is always my reaction to abject stupidity..if one wants to discuss the factual issues of guitars I am so there...if someone wants to spew bullsh!t to enhance their choices in guitars I'm also there..if someone wants to fill this forum up with their copius,aimless, pointless, painfully lame, rarely factually-based mind meanderings because they have nothing better to do, when it finally bores me...I'm going to say so...I invite any Epiphone owner who thinks their Epiphone is equal to a Gibson on any level to offer their fact-based argument.. 1. Materials? 2. Hardware? 3. Electronics? 4. Finish? 5. .Level of Craftsmanship (no, I don't mean how well Chang Lee operates the CNC machine) These are all areas that by design Gibson has used to make the Epiphone a cheaper, and hence, by definition, inferior to the Gibson product. So..... Don't bother with subjective issues like you think your Sheraton sounds as good as a Gibson you once played at Guitar Center or crap like "it's all in the hands" I await any sensible, fact-based arguments addressing my points...if you don't have anything like that to offer save it for the kids at Harmony Central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frequensator Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 These issues will always come up. I remember a fellow professor in the mid-1980's who refused to even touch a PC since he was convinced that the Apple IIe was superior in every way. It was moot, as Apple dumped the IIe to focus on the Mac instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Meaningless. Like a bad doctor saying' date=' "I’ve had more patients than...." [/quote']So when someone who repairs guitars sees a lot of fret wear on imports such as Epi's and finds the facts to be those guitars are many times less than 2 years old, some 6 months and are played heavily, that should be ignored because a repair man does repairs? That lends no factual support to the idea of soft frets? The fact of the matter is the bulk of imports use inferior fretwire. Period. You can live in your delusion and think they are using same spec fret wire as a quality USA guitar such as a Gibson, but you are sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You can live in your delusion and think they are using same spec fret wire as a quality USA guitar such as a Gibson' date=' but you are sadly mistaken. [/quote'] Yep, those Asians only make low quality stuff that's why in "the last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits and opens up new assembly lines while Ford GM and Chrysler racked up 9 billion in losses and are closing factories." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Yep' date=' those Asians only make low quality stuff that's why in "the last quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits and opens up new assembly lines while Ford GM and Chrysler racked up 9 billion in losses and are closing factories."[/quote']I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.:- Yeah, there's a real connection to gutar fret wire there. But hey, I'll play along. Hmmmm... Toyota November sales down 34%. Honda to pull out of F1 racing due to falling corporate profits Ford Motor Co. bagged five top category awards in an annual survey of new car quality, more than any other automaker, according to J.D. Power and Associates. Ford has overthrown the Toyota Motor Corp. and has become the winner of the most category honors in the previous year’s survey. Toyota dropped to 7th place from 4th place last year in the overall nameplate ranking..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 Nelson, I give you a lot of credit for being knowledgeable about guitars and that includes the Epi and Gibson debate (a debate that can be applied to any two guitar makes thrown out for discussion). However, your people skills suck and because of that I find myself losing the meaning of what you obviously can truly offer the forum. Despite how that sounds, it is meant in a complementary way as it applies to your knowledge. I don't have a Gibson (yet), but until then I like my Epi's. I don't know how they compare side by side with anything more than the other guitars I own. I find the epi's enjoyable and they get most of the playing time. I am a bedroom player, so fret ware is not high on my list of concerns. Being in a 10x10 room, the sound is important, but let's face it, I am only needing to please me. So, I have found some of the information you have provided of value and worth remembering. I can even deal with your people skills (or lack of), but I would get far more from your comments if it was easier to cut through the bs that you seem to enjoy including. Now, how you decide to respond is up to you, but this is truthfully a complement to your knowledge. Now shut up and give me info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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