duane v Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I just talked to a highly regarded vintage guitar shop, (I'm purchasing a 1960's Epiphone). And they told me why they do not give out serial numbers to their guitars. There is a recent scam (that I was unaware of) that certain scum will get a serial # from a guitar (via the internet) and will report it to the police as stolen. Basically the guitar is confiscated by the police, until the person that was last in possession can prove the guitar was in fact not stolen.... However this raises the question as to why a "crooked" seller wouldn't want to make the serial# public on a guitar he or she is selling. just a CYA thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 you can duplicate a number pretty easily. Even if it's carved into the guitar. ebay even sells tools that do this. And decals and paint are doable, too. I like the chip idea or whatever that thing is that let's you read a bar code. tWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 This is awful strange, shameful. Everybody knows, the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, and those scammers don't have to produce evidence of actual ownership? Make a bogus claim, you get a free guitar by fraud... This is ridiculous, it's actual fraud, and the people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 There is a recent scam (that I was unaware of) that certain scum will get a serial # from a guitar (via the internet) and will report it to the police as stolen. Basically the guitar is confiscated by the police' date=' until the person that was last in possession can prove the guitar was in fact not stolen.... [/quote'] In a world with millions out of work, scamming will no doubt reach higher levels. Some people may own guitars with the necessary paperwork to prove ownership, but a lot of guitars are bought second hand and the money and guitar are simply exchanged. So lets say the scam artist gets a legit sn and description of the guitar and wants to report it as "stolen". The cops will want a lot of details on how,when where etc that sort of thing. So the scam artist will have to concoct a story reporting it to the cops. What are the cops gonna do if it is NOT stolen but simply being scammed? Find out from the store where it was bought or the manufacturer that may have the original owner registerd with them. The best thing to do is to have a secret code engraved somewhere inside on something that only the legitimate owner knows about. However this raises the question as to why a "crooked" seller wouldn't want to make the serial# public on a guitar he or she is selling. To give the "sale" more validity would be my guess. Best thing to do is to hide the last 4 digits (production number) from the internet and keep the scam artists guessing. ie: Iyymm,xxxx . Without the xxxx digits, the scam artists only have the manufacturer and the year. just a CYA thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Well, if the cops ask for a police report and they submit some false paper, that's a forgery, a felony. If they say they "lost it" so they can get the guitar, that's also a crime. Any way you look at it, it's one crime after another, the entire thing is disgusting and we're the ones paying the ultimate price by having to go through hell every time we want to purchase a guitar from a pawn shop. That's why I don't trust ebay, unless you know the seller, it's a risk I'm not willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The best thing to do is to have a secret code engraved somewhere insideon something that only the legitimate owner knows about. That's something of an idea I already do something with my bicycles (well, the 2 that might be worth stealing, anyway.....) I write my name and adress on a rolled up piece of paper and shove a copy inside the handlebars or down the seattube....if it gets stolen and MAYBE recovered, my proof of ownership, although "unofficial" is rather undeniable. ..... would just have to fish the paper(s) outta the proper tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ah now this is FUNNY! Hand-wringing over what the police might do or not on an alleged simple guitar theft. The police will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I've had multiple home burgleries, at least 4 vehicle break-ins, and 3 airline luggage thefts. All reported. All filed away with nothing done to investigate. Two of the home burgleries and one auto break, I had a real good idea of the suspects and told the police who and how and how to find out for sure. Not a finger was lifted. I'm not alone. Friends report the same treatment. And do you want to know why? It's too hard to prove and too little $$ at stake, so the police/prosecutors instead focus all their efforts going after "easy" crimes like trapping victims in drug deals and other high profile, high $$ matters. The day the masses become fed up with this drug hysteria that has been forced down their throats and demands an end to modern prohibition is the day that real victims of real everyday crimes like thefts might start seeing some justice for their tax dollars. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 What Steve said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ah now this is FUNNY!Hand-wringing over what the police might do or not on an alleged simple guitar theft. The police will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! You are absolutely right there, Steven. Unless there are witnesses and pictures of the perpretrators and they can be identified by name/address, the reporting of a theft is just a formality so that you can (sometimes) report it as a claim to your household insurance company. In most cases, unless you have a proof of value and ownership on the make/sn, and a specified rider on the guitar(s) the insurance company will not be too willing to offer any compensation, unless an actual break-in occurred, and the cops were called to examine the door. So that pretty much leaves the theft situation to bad luck on the owners part or trying to collect from your insurance, who will (probably)drop you as a bad risk, after the second claim....... unless you have a 24hr security system and a doberman in your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Paragraph edited out. I live in an area with a fullblown "meth epidemic" going on........ you'd better believe that EVERYTHING I own, guitars, amps, guns,tv's,stereos, etc. are ALL marked in a way that can't be removed without doing serious damage, or creating a serious cost to repair. This is what our local police Chief said to do, because a theif isn't going to put a substantial amount of $$$ into an item they're planning on selling for their next "rock". And as (I think) Carver said.......I also have a GREAT theft deturrent system, a Pitt Bull (hes really a sweet baby) and his 5 offspring by a Dingo/Sheperd mix. People that don't know us, (and a few that do) won't come NEAR our house, let alone inside it when we're not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've had multiple home burgleries' date=' at least 4 vehicle break-ins, and 3 airline luggage thefts. [/quote'] Life "near the crossroads" sounds kind of dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 while I have no doubt that real serial numbers are being copied and used on fakes, this story sounds like an urban myth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Pickguard backs' date=' Trussrod cover backs, potentiometer access cover backs, all good places for your initals and the last 4 of your ssn. (magic marker or lightly engraved) If you're REALLY paranoid about it, a slip of paper with the same info will fit neatly inside a pickup cavity, under the pickup. [/quote'] It would be my opinion not to advise possible thieves of where to look. I think that most of us can understand the necessity of keeping the location of the secret identification numbers, secret from the internet. Otherwise thieves/scam artists will know what areas to look. BTW, Pickguards and TRCs can be replaced easily, as well as control cavity access backs. There are other areas where a thief won't necessary look, and that can be helpful in identifying you as the true owner. The main problem of course, is finding your guitar in your area again. Lots of LPs (for example) look alike. If you happen to see one hanging in a pawn shop ( a more likely place), or even in a legit guitar store.... are you going to ask the owner to take it down, so you can take it apart and look for your id marks? Somehow, I don't think you will get that kind of co-operation. Are you going to go from pawnshop to pawnshop / store to store looking for it? It could just as easily end up in someone's basement too. So lets say the thief decides to sell it on E-Bay as his own. Most interested buyers are only concerned on whether it is a fake and the sn number. Very few will be suspicious that might be stolen..and.... if that LP happens to cross the country, the chance of you ever seeing it again..... to bring the matter up to the cops.... is non-existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emetry Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 while I have no doubt that real serial numbers are being copied and used on fakes' date=' this story sounds like an urban myth...[/quote'] Possible, but I mean, c'mon. The reason SNs exist is to be able to identify identical goods. That's why you're supposed to keep model and serial numbers for anything that has them. Takes a while to get into the habit of, but it's a good one. As far as cops looking for stolen guitars, well, frankly if you've been robbed, they've probably taken more which means that the cops are more likely to look for your goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It would be my opinion not to advise possible thieves of where to look. I think that most of us can understand the necessity of keeping the location of the secret identification numbers' date=' secret from the internet. Otherwise thieves/scam artists will know what areas to look. BTW, Pickguards and TRCs can be replaced easily, as well as control cavity access backs. There are other areas where a thief won't necessary look, and that can be helpful in identifying you as the true owner. The main problem of course, is finding your guitar in your area again. Lots of LPs (for example) look alike. If you happen to see one hanging in a pawn shop ( a more likely place), or even in a legit guitar store.... are you going to ask the owner to take it down, so you can take it apart and look for your id marks? Somehow, I don't think you will get that kind of co-operation. Are you going to go from pawnshop to pawnshop / store to store looking for it? It could just as easily end up in someone's basement too. So lets say the thief decides to sell it on E-Bay as his own. Most interested buyers are only concerned on whether it is a fake and the sn number. Very few will be suspicious that might be stolen..and.... if that LP happens to cross the country, the chance of you ever seeing it again..... to bring the matter up to the cops.... is non-existant. [/quote'] I kind of doubt that many meth heads, or even garden variety theives are searching this forum for ways to hide the fact that they've stolen our guitars , but, whatever, i'll edit it out. Are you telling me that if you saw your own stolen axe hanging in a pawn shop, you wouldn't call the cops and have them witness your dismantling it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Apparently, there are some who think that cops investigate burglaries and such. They don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I kind of doubt that many meth heads' date=' or even garden variety theives are searching this forum for ways to hide the fact that they've stolen our guitars . Are you telling me that if you saw your own stolen axe hanging in a pawn shop, you wouldn't call the cops and have them witness your dismantling it?[/quote'] Well you have a point there. Some of the guitars that I have are unique and have unique trappings. So if one or more got stolen, I would freak out and start running around at the different pawn shops where the meth heads/pot heads would be fencing their booty. Like a mother cat recognizing her kittens, I would probably be able to recognize my own guitars from others hanging on the pawn shop wall. It's hard to explain, but just like playing these guitars..they become part of you and in most cases "you know" or suspect that it is yours. The big problem is getting the cops interested in coming down to stand around while you disassemble a key component that may have your "signature". Unless there is a illegal act being perpretrated (ie: pawnshop owner calling the cops over an argument with you, or an assault), the cops aren't interested..and it's business as usual with the pawn shop....you want it..you pay the asking price or negotiate a better deal to get your guitar back. And that is, as I previously mentioned, a scenario, where you are purposely looking through local pawnshops right after the robbery. If the thief decides to sell it on e-Bay... (maybe a meth addict is not interested, as it takes too long and you need to provide personal information/PayPal info etc to E-Bay)..your chances of examining it are pretty much nil...especially if it's a common factory model like a LP model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 ..........at the different pawn shops where the meth heads/pot heads would be fencing their booty. Potheads pawn stolen stuff to support their "habits" ???!!!??? That's funny ..... must've been those damn potheads that broke into my house last year, then =D> ....didn't steal any gear, though, just small stuff they could stuff in their pockets and walk out with (jewelry, watches, bunch of spare change, etc) without looking too suspicious - this happened between 8 am and 2 pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 "Potheads pawn stolen stuff to support their "habits" ???!!!??? That's funny ...." What are you laughing about? Pot is really, really dangerous. Haven't you seen Reefer Madness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What are you laughing about? Pot is really' date=' really dangerous. Haven't you seen Reefer Madness?[/quote'] Yeah ..... it made me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Potheads pawn stolen stuff to support their "habits" ???!!!??? That's funny ..... must've been those damn potheads that broke into my house last year' date=' then =D> ....didn't steal any gear, though, just small stuff they could stuff in their pockets and walk out with (jewelry, watches, bunch of spare change, etc) without looking too suspicious - this happened between 8 am and 2 pm. [/quote'] Musta been a bunch of teenagers that weren't interested in learning guitar but got the munchies and were looking for quick change for the bus? lol! (We really need a LoL imoticon on this forum.) Reminds me of Jay Leno's "shtick" about "the economy is so bad that...." Up in my neck of the woods..we had a 14 yr old that was caught after two attempted bank holdups. "The economy is so bad that welfare moms have to send their 14 yr olds to ask for "milk money" at the local bank." lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emetry Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 See...I hang one of the targets I used to get my marksman certification on the wall directly across from the door to my apartment. Nothing guaranteed, but I can see that being a fairly decent deterrent when you consider the number of apartments in my building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 must've been those damn potheads that broke into my house last year' date=' then =D> .... [/quote'] Possible suspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Possible suspects? I think I've seen those guys on some "Wanted" posters. Thanks for the laugh Willy! Very funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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