dubstar Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 re: dubstar wrote...just want to point out that I didn't write that 1st part; I quoted another poster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 hey cb..you dont know what pain is untill u live in australia...ie list price for say a martin in america is say 1799.00 in australia same guitar try 3499.00 ouch..btw svet put a bid on swomgt martin How much is the new Gibson Dark Fire selling for in the US? In the latest issue of Australian Guitar magazine' date=' a review prices it at AU$8000.00 here. Prices of most Epis I've looked at since November last year are up 50% and 60% in the three months since. Out of my price range now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyFingers Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Way too many parallels' date=' to 1930's Germany, for me! And, not in just the "money" area, either. BUT... that's another thread/Rant! ;>b As to the money devaluing products being more expensive...Yeah, maybe... but the result to us, is the same! Nothing new, I guess...but the percentage, this time...and in the last few price hikes, was WAY out of line...IMHO. The Gibson '61 SG has more than doubled in price, in less than 3 years...just using MF prices, as a guide. That's NUTS! CB [/quote'] I hear you...! Just go get groceries and notice the jump there as well...just not guitars... I don't think the prices are going to go down anytime soon...if your thinking about buying that special guitar do it now before a Squier is worth a grand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Somebody has actually started a petition about the Fender price rises. Looks like none of the guitar prices are not very popular. http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FenderPricing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkin38 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I know I won`t be buying another guitar. But now might be a time to start selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 davidg3333, I built my son a Warmoth a couple of years ago. Best guitar I have ever played. All the parts are precision cut. The neck/body joint is perfect and you can actually feel air being pushed out as you insert the neck. Anyway, the truss rod adjustment is at the heel, but it is on the bottom of the neck, not on the end. So you don't have to take the neck off the guitar to make adjustments. The adjustment allen screw is set 90 degrees to the direction of the truss rod. My son's guitar BTW, has a Strat style body made of mahogony with a quilted maple cap in tobacco burst. The neck is maple with a Brazillian rosewood finger board. Stop tailpiece, H/S/S (SD JB at the bridge, and 2 SD Vintage Strat single coils), locking Schaller tuners. Looks, sounds, and plays fantastic. Total cost was about $1200. If I didn't already have 11 guitars I'd build one for myself (maybe I will anyway - I want a solid body guitar with P-90's). Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I sometimes get the feeling that Gibson and Fender are just going after collectors and those who purchase guitars just to look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 At the rate that the buying power of the dollar is falling, it will soon be once again used as it was in our own colonial days......"when thoroughly shredded and mixed 50-50 with good quality, clean clay mud, the paper dollar from most states makes a most excellent chinking, for packing between the logs of ones cabin, to thwart the cold winters air".................. wheres that shredder/mixer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 We've been off the gold standard since the 70's...seems like the IOU standard doesn't work anymore...maybe we should move to a guitar standard for our currency? The current prices would indicate a decent competition between a Gibson or Fender and solid gold? Maybe rock and roll will save the world? LOL Maybe just our souls then...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSAKing Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 During the great depression, entertainment in general flourished as people sought to escape, if only briefly, from the situations surrounding them. Juke joints, bars, movie theaters, music in general flourished. The drivers on this one are a lot more global in nature and it is those global factors, (IMHO) driving the prices on guitars up, coupled with the first point. Cuts in production and demand is a precarioous balance they are trying to achieve I think. I mean look at the car market - you can buy a new car for what? 60-70% of previous values? Demand is down, production was still very high as they tried to cut back without sinking in the process. Guitars - cut production, focus on niche markets, but the demand is still there so what happens???? Like a lot of folks here, for the present I'll try rein in my GAS factor and be content in the fact that I have the ones I have that I picked up in the 'good old days' when prices were reasonable..... and keep my eyes open on the used market and (I hate to say it) look at other products that are starting to have a much better price point than Epi.....and for sure their higher priced siblings. Anyhow, FWIW, I don't think anyone really knows where it is going .... or where it will end up.... but for sure it will be a bumpy exciting ride!!! MY $.02 Cdn - worth about $.000000001 US, so take it for what it is worth!! lol. With possibilities of devaluation and moves to gold as solidly backed assets again, maybe that plating on my sheratons will drive the values up even more??? :- BSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acewarslave Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 sorry svet my bad i ment that i put a bid on a martin the one i mention to u about..:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I know the situation we are in now can't be compared to the great depression Yet. All the economic navel-gazers are now fixated on when the 'bear' will bottom out. The latest prediction' date=' apparently, is that we will find the bottom when the Standard & Poor hits 450. That's unprecedented. I can't imagine what the world will look like at that point. Scholars of Thomas Hobbes will be able to observe the fundamental state of nature at first hand. Also, Gibson/Epiphone/Fender aren't producing as many guitars anymore. So what happens? Quantity goes down, so prices go up. Because some people (but not all) are still going to buy guitars anyway, they make more money per guitar. So they don't have to sell in bulk, and they don't have to spend money building more guitars. Damn skippy. Why bust your gut making 10,000 of the things to sell at $1000 each, when you can just make 5000 and knock them out at 2K (provided that they all sell). One symptom of this depression, I'm afraid, will be a definite widening of the lifestyle gap between the rich and the poor. Still, I guess I'm grateful for what I have. It may be a 15 year old Jeep, but it's my 15 year old Jeep and I'm gonna keeping running it as long as there's a mechanic prepared to fix it. I'd rather that than a new car at some obscene rate of interest...I guess that makes me selfish, beacuse I'm not contributing anything that might, er, stimulate the economy - but then I'm not convinced that this problem can be solved by getting people to go back to the mall to spend yet more money they don't have...If anything, that's what brought us to the brink in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beef Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Making a partsocaster sounds better every day. I might go to Warmouth or MusiKraft for a body. Still thinking about a neck. As someone who has built/modded/owned six partscasters in the last seven or eight years, I have had necks from Warmoth, Allparts, Fender, and USA Custom Guitars. USA Custom Guitars wins hands down as the best quality and best tonal improvement to my guitars. It was my most recent purchase and if I need (or want) another neck it'll definitely be with them. When I held the neck by the tip of the headstock and thwapped the back of the neck with my thumb, it rang like a bell. None of my other necks have done that. It massively improved the tone of the guitar I put it on. Truss rod adjustment at the headstock, too! Mine was a web special that I bought on an impulse and I am SO glad I did. I have three partscasters right now with Allparts necks. They're also very good quality having been made at the same factory as Made in Japan Fenders. They're very much cheaper than Warmoth or USA Custom Guitars if you buy through an authorized reseller (don't pay full price on the Allparts website) but they end up costing the same as the other two. Both the ones I bought new needed a $100 full fret level and crown before they were playable. Considering I spent $100 less on each neck, it all evened out. I'm happy with them. With Warmoth, their stuff is good but not quite as good. Had problems with the satin finish of one of mine flaking off but it was under warranty and they were cool about doing a refin. My wife has had two of their bass necks and they were both way heavy. One of the two I owned was very heavy too. If it tells you anything, I no longer own any Warmoth necks, though I do have a Warmoth bodied parts Jazzmaster that continues to be one of my best sounding guitars. No experience with Musikraft, though I read mixed reviews of their stuff. Mighty Mite is another big one out there. They're even cheaper than Allparts. My friend had one and the frets needed a lot more work than the Allparts before being playable. They're also Indonesian made, so overall quality can be iffy. Over at the TDPRI I saw one guy's neck twist like you wouldn't believe and Mighty Mite totally gave him the runaround instead of replacing the neck like they should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The price of the Fender Jaguar has already leaped about $500 at Sweetwater. MF still has it at the pre-sticker-shock price of $1500. And how much is the price of a Rickenbacker 325 these days? About $5' date='000?[/quote'] At some point we all have to reconsider the value of money, in personal or domestic terms (divorced from the actual value of the dollar as an international monetary instrument). Let's face it, not many employers are in the mood to raise salaries right now, so our incomes are pretty 'fixed' for the present. So you look at the money in your pocket, you look at the item in the store window, and you ask yourself, "Is that item actually worth my parting with that sum of money?" I just don't believe that those Fender Jaguars are 'worth' nearly $2000. Without raking over cold embers, this is something I think Mr Nelson and MarxBros could just never, ever comprehend. The question (for me) was never "Is a G-400 as good as an SG Standard?" it was only ever (to put it crudely) about bang-for-buck. With my G-400 I got a very nice guitar for less than $400. If I do buy my '61 SG then I'm just going to have to close my eyes to the price tag and concentrate on the guitar, otherwise it will leave a sour taste that will diminish the pleasure I take in the instrument. Because, to be honest, I don't believe that the '61 SG is 'worth' $2000 (or, for me, the equivalent of 2.75 mortgage payments,) either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpfan Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 One symptom of this depression' date=' I'm afraid, will be a definite widening of the lifestyle gap between the rich and the poor. Still, I guess I'm grateful for what I have. It may be a 15 year old Jeep, but it's [i']my[/i] 15 year old Jeep and I'm gonna keeping running it as long as there's a mechanic prepared to fix it. I'd rather that than a new car at some obscene rate of interest...I guess that makes me selfish, beacuse I'm not contributing anything that might, er, stimulate the economy - but then I'm not convinced that this problem can be solved by getting people to go back to the mall to spend yet more money they don't have...If anything, that's what brought us to the brink in the first place. I like your way of thinking! A big part of this countries problem is that they think its ok to finance EVERYTHING as long as you make the payment. WRONG! If people would learn to practice a little patience and save up the cash instead of financing they wouldn't have the debt, the stress associated with it, and they would probably end up with a better deal if they paid with cash. Does anybody know who Dave Ramsey is? His methods are hard to get used too but I would bet my life that if he was in charge of the nations finances we would get out of debt, have more money and power than several other countries combined. Anyway back too guitars, I too get the feeling that sometimes Gibson and Epiphone are going after the people that have money growing on trees in their backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PP_CS336 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes, if you've noticed on Musicians Friend (some friend they are at times...) the Epi prices went up anywhere from $150.00-$200.00 minimum on all models. Glad I got mine when I did. S**t! Guess us poorer boys are going to have to get as much mileage as possible out of the one(s) we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I agree...whenever you finance anything, you end up paying a LOT more for it, in the long run. And, once you go down that "financing" road, it's TOO easy to keep doing that, until there's no end in sight...much less any real way to pay off one's debt. This country (and I suspect a lot of the "western world") has lived WAY beyond it's means, for a very long time. And, because we're a market economy, we're encouraged at every step, to do so! Look at ANY "advertising!" It's a critically BAD habit, that's finally turned around to bite us, big time! (Some might even say, "Chew us up, and swallow us!"). Until we (individually), and our governments (good LUCK!), get a handle on that...we'll forever be in this rollercoaster (at best) and/or downward spiral, to complete ruin (at worst). SO....??? Like "kindness"...economic independence, and effective (and disciplined) government starts at home, with you individually. Unfortunately, it may take a worldwide collapse, to get people to think/live that way? I hope not, but...old habits, are tough to break! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I agree...whenever you finance anything' date=' you end up paying a LOT more for it, in the long run. And, once you go downthat "financing" road, it's TOO easy to keep doing that, until there's no end in sight...much less any real way to pay off one's debt. This country (and I suspect a lot of the "western world") has lived WAY beyond it's means, for a very long time. And, because we're a market economy, we're encouraged at every step, to do so! Look at ANY "advertising!" It's a critically BAD habit, that's finally turned around to bite us, big time! (Some might even say, "Chew us up, and swallow us!"). Until we (individually), and our governments (good LUCK!), get a handle on that...we'll forever be in this rollercoaster (at best) and/or downward spiral, to complete ruin (at worst). SO....??? Like "kindness"...economic independence, and effective (and disciplined) government starts at home, with you individually. Unfortunately, it may take a worldwide collapse, to get people to think/live that way? I hope not, but...old habits, are tough to break! CB [/quote'] The cost of debt is incredible. I looked at my 'truth of lending' statement recently. The house cost me $100K, but by the time I've paid it off in 28 years time it will have cost me close to $250K. I don't resent a mortgage because I'd just be paying the same money in rent otherwise - you've got to live somewhere, after all - and at least I'll own the house one day... Car loans make no sense to me. I'd rather buy a beater for cash. I'd never borrow money to buy a guitar. The likes of Epiphone make quite good guitars affordable (perfectly adequate for my needs) - anything else would be nice, but it is still an indulgence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I spoke to a dealer yesterday and he told me the new Epi he just got in for a customer has an 07 serial number but has the new price tag. So it looks like warehoused older stock (at least in Australia) is getting price-bumped as well. The dealer did tell me that the distributor has to do this so that they can afford to buy new stock at the higher wholesale price. I guess that sounds reasonable from their point of view but not from this customer's one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well, two days ago I pulled the trigger on a 62 Fender Mustang made in Corona CA (metallic ice blue) when I saw that it had jumped to $2,000 at Sweetwater. MF had them for $1,499, and I bit. It arrived today, and I noticed that in the past 2 days, the sticker price jumped $400 at MF. If I didn't already have one, I could buy a new Dot with the money I saved. But this will probably be my last guitar purchase. I gassed for a Jaguar throughout the 60's, and don't mind the sound of them (I think of it more as jazz than surf). I can't think of another guitar that I have gassed for that I don't already have. I did want a Gretsch Tennessean, but I have a Tennessean-like Gretsch (in the 5000 series). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I agree...whenever you finance anything' date=' you end up paying a LOT more for it, in the long run. And, once you go downthat "financing" road, it's TOO easy to keep doing that, until there's no end in sight...much less any real way to pay off one's debt. This country (and I suspect a lot of the "western world") has lived WAY beyond it's means, for a very long time. And, because we're a market economy, we're encouraged at every step, to do so! Look at ANY "advertising!" It's a critically BAD habit, that's finally turned around to bite us, big time! (Some might even say, "Chew us up, and swallow us!"). Until we (individually), and our governments (good LUCK!), get a handle on that...we'll forever be in this rollercoaster (at best) and/or downward spiral, to complete ruin (at worst). SO....??? Like "kindness"...economic independence, and effective (and disciplined) government starts at home, with you individually. Unfortunately, it may take a worldwide collapse, to get people to think/live that way? I hope not, but...old habits, are tough to break! CB [/quote'] You are totally right CB. I'm in that little hell right now. Not w/ the mortgage, thank God-we never considered a variable rate deal, but the damn credit cards! Ugh. They go down every month, but what a struggle to get into principal! We're realtively lucky; our load is not any place close to the national average. But for the money we earn, it's still too much. Won't make that mistake again, if it can be helped! It's not even all bad spending either (luxuries) but unexpected auto and house repairs that we had no way to deal with otherwise; when the well pump breaks, you gotta have the plumbers out...when the car craps out, you gotta have it fixed, etc. I do have a Musician Friend account...but it's not out of hand-thankfully the max is only 1,500.00-that limits the trouble I can get into. I've paid that thing off and ran it back up again at least 4 times! I must admit-it's the one credit card I don't regret. Pay it off before they start charging interest is all....Now though, looks like most guitars will cost more than the max limit I have...so that will help curb that spending! Business is eating its' collective arm off to escape a trap. Like a "coyote date" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I learned the "credit card debt" lesson a long time ago, thankfully. I still use them, but out of convienence, mostly...or for emergencies. Anything I "buy" with a card, I pay off, at the billing cycle...so, no finance charges. THEY don't like that, because they don't make any money, in that regard. But..."Tough!" It's much better, for me, in the long run. As a person that has too many guitars (and cameras), I have never gone into "Debt" for either. Just did without, until I could buy them outright. They are, definitely "indugences," but at my age, I have precious few others. So, I figure...as long as I can afford them, without going into debt, or financing, to get them...what the heck. But, I've really scaled back, recently...not only because of the economy, but...because there are precious few, I want/"need," anymore. LOL! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!" But that doesn't mean I'm going to throw my guitars out of the window. What it does mean is that used, or pre-owned for those who prefer double-speak, is the only way to go. My best guitars were all bought used anyway, and Gibson sure isn't doing anything to make me question my logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I learned the "credit card debt" lesson a long time ago' date=' thankfully. I still use them, but out of convienence, mostly...or for emergencies. Anything I "buy" with a card, I pay off, at the billing cycle...so, no finance charges. THEY don't like that, because they don't make any money, in that regard. But..."Tough!" It's much better, for me, in the long run. As a person that has too many guitars (and cameras), I have never gone into "Debt" for either. Just did without, until I could buy them outright. They are, definitely "indugences," but at my age, I have precious few others. So, I figure...as long as I can afford them, without going into debt, or financing, to get them...what the heck. But, I've really scaled back, recently...not only because of the economy, but...because there are precious few, I want/"need," anymore. LOL! CB [/quote'] The credit card companies refer to you as (ironically) a deadbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Yes' date=' if you've noticed on Musicians Friend (some friend they are at times...) the Epi prices went up anywhere from $150.00-$200.00 minimum on all models. Glad I got mine when I did. S**t! Guess us poorer boys are going to have to get as much mileage as possible out of the one(s) we've got. [/quote'] Paul, why buy anything from MF when you have Alto Music in Middletown? If you have not heard of them or been to their store you need to go! They are far less expensive and they have tons of gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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