mgrasso Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I tried a search but did not find much on replacement P-90s for my Casino. Playing last weekend, the hum was getting to me and decided it was time to move on this. I do not gig with my guitars, just get together with some friends, mainly acoustic, but am willing to put some $$ into it. I also want to keep the look that the pickup covers give the Casiono. I would not mind the cream or the black if it was a solid color or natural, but with the sunburst finish, white pickgard and chrome hardware, it just would not look right. My guitar tech, Pittsburgh Guitars, said there might be a problem lining up the original covers with poles of the new pickups. We were discussing Duncan, Gibson and Lindy Fralin, but each would require more work and $. After searching the web, I found Kent Armstrong P-90s with the chrome covers. http://www.longislandguitarparts.com/Kent_Armstrong_P90_Famil-CASINO_PICKUP_CHROME_FRONT.html Has anyone replaced theirs with these? Are they much weaker than the higher end P-90s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If you're expecting another brand of P90 to hum less, I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed. 60-cycle hum affects all single coil pickups. I'm not sure what to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Something I've always been interested in doing as well and the kent armstrong ones have been the recommendation. Other than that I've always been told the best way to go to avoid hum is the plastic covered ones and I'm too much of a beatles fan to play a keith richards looking guitar! Plus I generally agree with you on the sunburst/chrome partnership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Duncan makes a "stacked" P-90 (SP-90) that is a humbucker, but has a decent P-90 like tone. Might try those. Gibson made a P-100 that was a direct replacement for the P-90, that was the same stacked design. They're a nice blend of mini-humbucker and P-90, in tone. But, they're NOT P-90's...so if you're absolutely in love with, and won't compromise P-90 tone...I'm afraid you're stuck with 60-cycle hum, to some degree. You can get them shielded, which will help. But, it won't eleminate it, entirely. Good luck! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 My tech mentioned the Gibson P-100s, I will talk with him about shielding. I plan on changing some of the pups in my others, but the Casino seemed like it should be the first one to get attention. My Del Rey has some funky OBL humbuckers that has a coil tap pot. I'm still discovering what each guitar's voice is through my amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hey mgrasso where are ya located. I'm from the Burgh too just north in Beaver County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMcClane5000 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 plastic covers sounds like a good idea... Get black covers, toss the pickguard, off you go :) I might just do that. Although I find the crome covers to be much sexier "powerful" looking, like the bigger, humming brother of the humbucker, hehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 This thread is making me nostalgic. I love my casinos and used to live in Pittsburgh! I went to school in North Hills and lived in Ross Township from 2000-2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelake07 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 For anyone interested - from the Lollar pickups site: CASINO: The Epiphone Casino (also the Wildcat) is a "whole different animal" although it looks a lot like a standard dogear set. Your first decision is whether or not you want to use the chrome covers. Something to consider is that with plastic covers the pickup will have a little more high end—the metal covers will reduce the top end a little bit. Also, the metal covers have a tendency to feed back microphonically, even if the pickups are potted to an extreme. If you decide to stay with the chrome covers, you will need to send in the entire unit: cover and chassis. On some versions the lead wire is built with a clip type connector at the end of the lead wire. This connector has two halves: half is attached to the guitar wiring and half is attached to the pickup lead wire. If yours is built with this type of connector, leave the pickup half of the connector attached to the lead wire and send in the entire assembly—pickup, chassis, cover, leadwire with clip. On a Casino set we re-use both the covers and the chassis. We basically "gut" the pickup and build a new p90 into what you send us. If you want to change to the plastic covers, the process is different. As you know the standard chrome cover/set up on the Casino typically has quite a slant or slope to it, especially on the neck. All of our covers & chassis are "flat," running parallel with the top surface of the guitar body. So for Casino sets and the way we put them together, we can match that slope somewhat, but not exactly. For a replacement for Casino neck we use a short neck with a 1/8" shim and an optional 1/32" shim. For a replacement for Casino bridge we use a standard (tall) bridge, no shim. Having Lollar rebuild the pickups would not be a cure for the hum problem. For someone wanting replacements, like Kent Armstrongs, I wonder if this would be an option. Lollar says at the site that he only rebuilds broken pickups...he doesn't want to try to custom build these for a particular sound. He is known for high-quality pickups and I wonder if just a rebuild from him would result in a "better" sound or would the pickups sound the same as stock. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 It's interesting when somebody seems to want a particular guitar to be something that it just isn't and will never be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostindesert Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Another option would be a noise gate or a Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 plastic covers don't sheild. metal covers, do. I have humbuck size KA p90s in two of my guitars.. one plastic cover, one has chrome. the chrome ones shield tv etc much better. Mine are the hot versions.. just under 9K and I've sold the KAs at 7.8K to casino owners as replacements. They go right in. Hum comes from somewhere.. and affects the pickups. You might want to try to find the source first, and even keep your pups. Tv on? pc monitor on? plugging too many things into too many different outlets? There's no hum on mine but I take care of all that to start with. There's no microphonic feedback from my metal covers. There is a slight high end cut with metal. I really think you need to realize that single coils are more susceptible to noise.. and there are two cures.. first, find the source.. rheostats being used? neon lights? etc. then, turn your guitar down between songs, that's the way everyone does it. But hum... there's no hum coming from the pickups.. it's coming from outside them. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg M Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 mgrasso, I put the Kent Armstrong P-90's in my Casino a couple of years ago. They sound very, very good. They are direct replacemets and all pole pieces line up directly under the strings on both pick-ups. There will still be some hum because they are single coil pick-ups. When I play out with the Casino or my Strat, I usually use a noise gate to deal with the hum. It is rare to play out and find the venue wired so well that you won't get hum with single coil pick-ups. If you search for threads on this forum using my name you should find several threads with lots of details about Casino upgrades including pick-ups. Hope this helps, Greg M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSohn Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Another option would be a noise gate or a Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal. Peter I'm with Peter on this. If you like P-90 tone but can't deal with the hum, then a noise gate or noise suppressor might be the easiest solution in stead of PUP replacement. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 You say you don't gig, just play with friends...at low volume there shouldn't be much hum at all. If there is it probably isn't the pups. You may have an earthing problem, a poor quality lead, or another fault somewhere. If so, swapping pups won't cure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyFingers Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks for the info...I have been looking for this elusive site...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL-KABONG! Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I can't wait for these rascals to come out. http://www.kinman.com/Shop/hx90.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL-KABONG! Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If their anywhere near as good as his tele ones, they'll be AMAZING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hey mgrasso where are ya located. I'm from the Burgh too just north in Beaver County. I work in downtown Pittsburgh and live near ShadySide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 For anyone interested - from the Lollar pickups site: CASINO: The Epiphone Casino (also the Wildcat) is a "whole different animal" although it looks a lot like a standard dogear set. Your first decision is whether or not you want to use the chrome covers. Something to consider is that with plastic covers the pickup will have a little more high end—the metal covers will reduce the top end a little bit. Also' date=' the metal covers have a tendency to feed back microphonically, even if the pickups are potted to an extreme. If you decide to stay with the chrome covers, you will need to send in the entire unit: cover and chassis. On some versions the lead wire is built with a clip type connector at the end of the lead wire. This connector has two halves: half is attached to the guitar wiring and half is attached to the pickup lead wire. If yours is built with this type of connector, leave the pickup half of the connector attached to the lead wire and send in the entire assembly—pickup, chassis, cover, leadwire with clip. On a Casino set we re-use both the covers and the chassis. We basically "gut" the pickup and build a new p90 into what you send us. If you want to change to the plastic covers, the process is different. As you know the standard chrome cover/set up on the Casino typically has quite a slant or slope to it, especially on the neck. All of our covers & chassis are "flat," running parallel with the top surface of the guitar body. So for Casino sets and the way we put them together, we can match that slope somewhat, but not exactly. For a replacement for Casino neck we use a short neck with a 1/8" shim and an optional 1/32" shim. For a replacement for Casino bridge we use a standard (tall) bridge, no shim. Having Lollar rebuild the pickups would not be a cure for the hum problem. For someone wanting replacements, like Kent Armstrongs, I wonder if this would be an option. Lollar says at the site that he only rebuilds broken pickups...he doesn't want to try to custom build these for a particular sound. He is known for high-quality pickups and I wonder if just a rebuild from him would result in a "better" sound or would the pickups sound the same as stock. What do you think? [/quote'] Thanks. I saw that on their website, but being where my money is going these days, I'm looking for a less expensive route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm sure they will be very good, but also expensive. Most expensive pups I ever bought are his Strat noiseless alnico 2s....but they are damn good. If he really can get rid of the hum without compromising the tone it'll be great for those of us using them at high volume / high gain. I can feel yet another pup swap coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 This thread is making me nostalgic. I love my casinos and used to live in Pittsburgh! I went to school in North Hills and lived in Ross Township from 2000-2002. Pittsburgh is still a great place to live. Even though most artists pass this area because of the entertainment tax. Some of the smaller venues are getting some use now. Morrissey is play at the Carnegie Music Hall in Oakland on St. Patty's Day. Lyle Lovette played there in Feb. Jorma Kaukonen has a habit of playing the Rex Theatre every other year. We are only 3 hours from the Fur Peace Ranch. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 mgrasso' date=' I put the Kent Armstrong P-90's in my Casino a couple of years ago. They sound very, very good. They are direct replacemets and all pole pieces line up directly under the strings on both pick-ups. There will still be some hum because they are single coil pick-ups. When I play out with the Casino or my Strat, I usually use a noise gate to deal with the hum. It is rare to play out and find the venue wired so well that you won't get hum with single coil pick-ups. If you search for threads on this forum using my name you should find several threads with lots of details about Casino upgrades including pick-ups. Hope this helps, Greg M[/quote'] Thanks Greg, I think I am going to try them out. I know they wont eliminate the hum, but it seems a little more than it should. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrasso Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm with Peter on this. If you like P-90 tone but can't deal with the hum' date=' then a noise gate or noise suppressor might be the easiest solution in stead of PUP replacement. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!!! [/quote'] Thanks KYSohn, First thing is to get it into my Tech's hands, have him clean and check everything before I do purchase. I appreciate the advice from all. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Single coil pickups pick up interference and thus will hum. Whether they are P90s, Fenders or whatever, if they are truly a single coil pickup, the coils act like an antenna. There have been many attempts to cancel the hum, the most successful being the humbucker pickup. But each and every attempt to cancel the hum picked up by the single coil pup has resulted in changing the tone of the pickup (better or worse is a matter of personal judgment). So what is a person to do if he/she wants to minimize the hum and still keep the tone? You can use a noise gate, that will not affect the tone but it will cut off the low end of the "tail" of your guitar sustain. Any signal softer than the noise gate threshold will not make it through the gate. You can use some of those pups that put dummy coils in them, and they will compromise the tone less than a humbucker. You can minimize the sources of interference, florescent lights, dimmers, motors, etc. Sometimes just moving your position will reduce the hum. I play my Casino (with Seymour Duncan pups) on stage. I use a direct box/amp simulator/FX pedal straight into the PA system. On stage there are always hum sources, lights with dimmers, etc. but the hum seems to be very minimal. If the room was perfectly quiet, I would be able to hear the hum, but most rooms I play in have about 60-75dba of ambient noise in them so nobody can hear the hum. When I play the signal is well over 35db louder than the hum, and as I learned in electronics, if the signal to noise ratio is 35db or over, the noise is not heard. So you have to figure out where your priorities are between tone and hum and make your decision yourself. The advice from the many generous posters on this thread should help you make that choice. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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