albertjohn Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I haven't played it for a couple of weeks and discovered this last night. I had noticed the beginnings of it a month or so ago. The SWD is a year old and has always been stored in its case in a room away from direct sunlight. It has never been exposed to extreme heat nor cold. No humidifier used - this is the UK. To be honest, the problem looks horrendous, magnified in the photos. In real life it looks not so bad. The crack? is almost all under the lacquer except in one small area but fretboard is definitely on the move on the treble side at the cutaway where the lacquer at the join has ruptured. I will be taking it to the good Doctor very soon (who is an authorised Gibson repairer) for his comments. Still plays and sounds fantastic. Any ideas/comments/similar experiences/suggestions would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 geez. that looks bad. fretboard lift due to dryness?(in britain?!?!?) defect? i would think it may be a warranty issue. i'm sure your luthier will advise and give piece of mind as well. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 It doesn't matter that you live in a humid climate (although too much humidity is not good either). However, last time I looked, the UK is quite a bit north of the Tropic of Capricorn. Do you heat your home? If so, your guitar requires humidification or it will dry out... even in the case. When the outside air is cooler and you heat that air in your home so you are comfortable, the relative humidity drops. Delaminating fingerboards are one of the symptoms. However, usually, when the fingerboard dries out, you'll see the fret ends protrude through the binding and from your photos, that doesn't seem to be the case. The only other thing I can think of that would cause fingerboard separation would be over-tightening the truss rod causing backbow. I know improper use of the truss rods on vintage Rickenbackers can cause the fingerboards to pop right off the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Short answer: Check warranty, take guitar back, stamp feet. Long answer: I've got 40 year old guitars that have never been in a case, had the sh!t played out of them and have no cracks apart from the crazed varnish. I have a 50 year old semi where the varnish has worn off the finger side and thumb side of the first few frets its been played that much - it has been in cars over night, cold garages, heated homes, aeroplane holds over the atlantic and the med, it spent time in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and America, it has been drop tuned, open tuned and fallen over more times than I can remember. It has sat too close to camp fires, been left in the rain and, once, in the snow. Intonation is still perfect, action is still superb and the neck is as good as the day it left the factory. The fingerboard is tight and without cracks all the way down. Take the bloody thing back and tell them if Framus can do it, why on earth can't they - it is not rocket scence, heck, even rocket science ain't rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 KSDaddy can probably answer this one better than I can, but I will have a go. These appear to be expansion cracks where the wood has become too thick from moisture for the lacquer to accommodate the girth - so it lets go and opens up. You are correct to believe that humidifiers are not often required in the UK, but you appear not to have explored the issue of dehumidification. The ideal for a guitar is about 50%. I have learned through this forum that the Bozeman shops are running around 45% - so perhaps the proprietary ideal humidity is 45% for your Gibson. In the summer, where I live in Nova Scotia, the humidity in my guitar room would be roughly 70% for most of the summer if I just let the house decide. I use a dehumidifier in the whole home and a specific one in the guitar room to keep the moisture level at 50-55%. I could achieve 45% if I wanted to but with a much higher energy cost. It is my understanding that expansion damage (belly roll on the top, lacquer cracks at neck joints and this sort of thing) essentially happens if the guitar is kept at humidity levels above 65% on a regular basis. Your case is not air tight, so it gradually adjusts to the humidity level of the outside air unless steps are taken inside the case to adapt that environment for ideal conditions. The part of your posting that I like to hear is that your guitar plays and sounds great. I have several guitars that are not perfect and as long as they sound happy I am happy. If humidity is not the cause of your problem (you can get the finish repaired in that area quite easily, so don't fret!) I would be interested to see further posts from you explaining the problem. I wish you well in finding a resolution that meets your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Looks like it could be a humidity problem (too much). Gibson builds at 42% at the factory. Depending on how high your humidity gets, it could be way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 . . It's a guitar, not a cigar. Hell's teeth people - what are they using for glue - egg-yolk, or rice starch maybe..... . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I wouldn't dare guess what happened to that piece of wood, even under threat of physical violence or the promise of other things. But you know, as "state of the art" as the industry is in 2008, sometimes a piece of wood is just unstable, regardless of the conditions under which it was aged, prepared, cut, shaped, finished, and then maintained (by the consumer).... some pieces of wood just don't cooperate. It's organic and there's only so much we can do. That's maybe not the answer you're looking for. I'm curious what the repair guy says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I am an idiot at this kinda of stuff but I saw something similar happen to a friend's year or so old guitar recently. Turns out his problem was that the neck wood had not been dried/cured properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 too much humidity would cause swelling....this is clearly a shrinkage problem.....most likely in improperly dried woods on the neck wood or Fret board....if that is Ebony it will sometimes shrink.....wood is an imperfect product....lol Good luck, I would say this is a warrenty problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 too much humidity would cause swelling....this is clearly a shrinkage problem.....most likely in improperly dried woods on the neck wood or Fret board....if that is Ebony it will sometimes shrink.....wood is an imperfect product....lol Good luck' date=' I would say this is a warrenty problem....[/quote'] Or perhaps a shrinkage problem after it first swelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Or perhaps a shrinkage problem after it first swelled? OMG, i have that problem, too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWilson Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 OMG' date=' i have that problem, too!!![/quote'] Hey, Cunk, heat your pool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 It seems that the standard answer is a humidity problem. Too much or too little I've noticed these humidity problems on quite a few Gibsons. I'm not bashing the brand. I own one and have not had a problem with it. I've owned a few Martins and never had a problem with any of them either, luck of the draw. Like somebody said wood is organic some peices act differently than others Good luck I'm sure Gibson will stand behind there product If it's not a Humidity problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 stop fretting (!) and follow thermionik's (btw, wtf is a ...ther..?) advice. long & short answers are correct. don't analyze. b*tch! unacceptable. git -r -done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 See if you can get a hygrometer of some sort and check the humidity in your house. When you have a nice wood guitar you have to do this. In this regard I kind of disagree with one of the posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 we have to also remember that he hasn't played it in a year. that means summer and winter. even if his humidity level is fine today, that doesn't mean that is has been for the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 we have to also remember that he hasn't played it in a year. that means summer and winter. even if his humidity level is fine today' date=' that doesn't mean that is has been for the last year. [/quote'] Modoc_333. Slight misunderstanding here. The guitar is just over 1 year old and I bought it new in January of this year (direct from the former UK distributors so I feel some warranty complications coming on! We don't have the same registration system in the UK as the USA.) I spotted the problem on the bass side of the neck about a month ago and my tech said it was nothing to worry about. Since then, I've been on hols and played my 335 alot so picked up the guitar on Saturday night having not played it for about 3 weeks. My house is heated. However it is very old and the room where I store my guitars has a radiator which only just gets warm to the touch. The guitars are not left near the radiator. It's a room which is rarely used so I've never worried about the heating. It does get rather cold in the winter but since owning the guitar we have had very few frosts. It has been particularly wet in UK since Jan and we've had a wet summer. My roses have never been better but I fear it does not suit the Gibson. Thanks everyone for the responses which have been fantastic. I'm not as depressed as I was a few days ago and will be stamping my feet at the first opportunity. Will update in due course but welcome any further views. Many thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Ouch AJ However I am sure you are taking her to the right place. Looks pretty impressive but hopefully the bark is worse than the bite! I too have noticed something on my SWD----> great globs of glue around the bridge. Robbie made no comment when he did the neck re-set and set up but I reckon the bridge has been off at some stage. When are you going to Bulmer, maybe we can hire a charabanc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 albertjohn - if your 'tech' really said it was nothing to worry about on a new guitar, change tech. I urge you to read again the life and times of my old Framus - whose glues are tight as when it came out of the factory. If Fritz could do it fifty years ago, surely Bobby Bozeman can better it today? jannusguy:- Thermionic - Thermionic emission is the flow of charge carriers from a surface or over some other kind of electrical potential barrier, caused by thermal vibrational energy overcoming the electrostatic forces restraining the charge carriers. The charge carriers can be electrons or ions, and are sometimes referred to as "thermions". The total charge of the emitted carriers (either positive or negative) will be equal in magnitude and opposite in sign to the charge left in the emitting region. The most classical example of thermionic emission is the emission of electrons from a hot metal cathode into a vacuum (archaically known as the Edison effect). This process is crucially important in the operation of a variety of electronic devices - most musically in what we Brits call valves, and you guys call tubes, or rather more musically still - 'toobs', which is what I usually call them these days (too much time with my beloved Blonde Bassman.....) And since my given name is Nik - the K on the end gives my handle (and is used on forums all over - usually by me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 albertjohn - if your 'tech' really said it was nothing to worry about on a new guitar' date=' [u']change tech[/u]. I urge you to read again the life and times of my old Framus - whose glues are tight as when it came out of the factory. If Fritz could do it fifty years ago, surely Bobby Bozeman can better it today? Thanks for your advice thus far. My stamping boots are at the ready. He's not aware of the extent of the problem as it has worsened significantly since he saw it. I've given him a link to this thread so he can assess the advice so far and see the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 My house is heated. However it is very old and the room where I store my guitars has a radiator which only just gets warm to the touch. The guitars are not left near the radiator. It's a room which is rarely used so I've never worried about the heating. It does get rather cold in the winter but since owning the guitar we have had very few frosts. Keep in mind that temperature control is also as important as humidity control. Gibson builds at 70+ degrees F. I can't remember the exact built temperature, but it is over 70 degrees. Anything extremely more or less is nearly as bad as keeping it in improper humidity conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Quick update. I've had a word with my teacher, Robbie, and he's had a look at the photos and the comments to date. He'll be seeing the guitar on Thursday to check but his initial view is that the lacquer is cracking which is caused by the fretboard shrinking. The most alarming area of cracking for me is where the board joins the top but here he thinks this is the lacquer only. The bad news is that lacquer cracks are not covered under warranty and even if it were, he'd do the repair anyway! He's going to run a couple of tests to confirm. If he's correct ( and I'd bet good money he is - even with my very limited technical knowledge - because he's so bloody good) then the plan is to let it continue to settle for another year and then repair the lacquer. He owns a large number of Gibson acoustics and he's seen this on several of his. If anyone is still unsure of Robbie's credentials, he says KSD is correct in his initial analysis - as if any of us on this forum would ever doubt the word of Lord KSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Keep in mind that temperature control is also as important as humidity control. Gibson builds at 70+ degrees F. I can't remember the exact built temperature' date=' but it is over 70 degrees. Anything extremely more or less is nearly as bad as keeping it in improper humidity conditions. [/quote'] Thanks GS. Last winter was mild even by British standards, and wet. Rarely below 0 deg C. The summer has been vitually non-existent with the temps rarely above the low 20s C (Sorry I'm a Celcius person and don't know what these are in old money!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Quick update. I've had a word with my teacher' date=' Robbie, and he's had a look at the photos and the comments to date. If he's correct ( and I'd bet good money he is - even with my very limited technical knowledge - because he's so bloody good) then the plan is to let it continue to settle for another year and then repair the lacquer. He owns a large number of Gibson acoustics and he's seen this on several of his. If anyone is still unsure of Robbie's credentials, he says KSD is correct in his initial analysis - as if any of us on this forum would ever doubt the word of Lord KSD.[/quote'] Oh no no no! He and KSD are incorrect. Its that bloody 15th fret thing of the Foo Fighters you do The poor old girl is rebelling. Try something soothing.... Knock on Wood in Bb. I am sure Robbie will fix her better than new, just thought I'd throw a little levity in! Might see you Thursday are you going up evening, I am in Cambridge in the pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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