Cap'n Greenfog Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hey, everybody. New to the forum. I play blues and classic rock with a couple of friends just as a hobby. Never serious, just love to play. I have a Fender Champion 600 with upgraded tubes and an 8 in. Weber speaker. For what it is, the little amp can hang pretty good with the bigger dogs in the neighborhood and sounds sweet to my ear(of course, their amps are set on 1 or 2 and I'm cranked to 12). The only pedals I'm running are a Bad Monkey And A Holy Grail Nano. So, that's what I'm playing through. What I'm playing is a 2004 China-made Epi LP Classic plus top. It's all original. I had great plans to buy a Seymour Duncan Hot Rodded Humbucker set and an RS Guitarworks Vintage wiring kit. And that's all they are- plans. For about a year now. Honestly, money is so tight and there's so many places it needs to go, there's no way I'm blowing $250 to make my Epi sound more like a Gibby. Especially when I REALLY want a Hardwire Delay pedal one of these days. A friend has an Epi LP W/ HR HB set and it sounds better than mine for sure, more clarity/less muddiness. My question is- are there cheap ways I can improve this guitar? I know you get what you pay for. I don't know of any pick-ups that are cheaper and just as good. It's my impression that Duncan IS the poor man's "good" pick-up. But what about wiring and pots and such. I noticed my guitar is not wired like the vintage diagrams I've seen. I run my tone knobs wide open all the time. I've owned three different amps over the yrs since I bought this guitar and the neck pick-up has always sounded too muddy and the bass is overpowering. I've tried lowering it to no avail. I like my setup. It serves my purposes well and is very light and portable. But, every time I play all I can think is, "This guitar needs something". Any advice, tips or links would be very helpful. I don't know a lot about electronics, but I'm also not an idiot so............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi, welcome to the forum If you are looking for a worth while upgrade that won't give your Bank acc' a heavy work out, Then simply change out all the pots and and wiring, new capacitors, jack etc. but leave in your epi pick-ups for now (you might be surprised how much of a difference some good quality wiring can make) . If changing the pick-ups is essential to you, then you could look into some of the lesser known companies producing great pick-ups at a fraction of the cost of the big name brands, such as GFS, Wilkinson, Iron gear, Bare knuckle, and kent armstrong, to mention but a few. we like Guitar pics here at the epi forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If I was in your position i'd prioritise this way : 1. Fit new 500k CTS pots and Sprague 22 caps, with good quality insulated cable. If you can do your own soldering, that doesn't involve much money at all and will help get the best out of the stock pups. I wouldn't bother with a different wiring schematic, just reproduce the existing circuit with better quality stuff. Taking that approach will mean you don't need to remove pickups, jack socket or selector switch. Set all the pots to zero while you're soldering them, to avoid damage. 2. In my own experience (I also play classic rock and blues) the neck pups aren't bad through a decent amp. If the bridge pup still isn't giving you what you want, just replace that one. For that sort of music, avoid the ceramic magnet types, you want alnico 2 or alnico 5 magnets. Either wait for a secondhand Gibson or SD on e-bay, or try one of the cheaper-but-still-ok options like Kent Armstrong, GFS, G+B. I once did all that to a 2001 Korean Samick Epi LP Std, and it sounded great with a stock Epi neck pup and a K.A. 15K alnico at the bridge. I played in a band alongside a guy with a Gibson, and matched his tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 i'm with the other guys on the GFS (guitarfetish.com) pickups.......small money/BIG improvement those, and a set of sprague "orange drop" .22 caps may be just what you need. the switching and wiring changes are debatable as to cost-vs.-improvement justification as far as sound, but upgraded switches WILL make it much more dependable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Welcome to the Forum! What everyone said here is true, myself, I'd drop the $25 to buy new pots from Ebay. You'll never the get tonal quality out of your pickups with the stock controls. Good, cheap investment. Check this vendor, 4 pots (CTS) and shipping less than $25. 500K Audio Pot, CTS Keep in mind that the mounting holes will have to be enlarged slightly. Put some painters (blue) masking tape on the topside over the finish to help keep from chipping the paint, and be sure to use a sharp bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 When I had mine, all I did was swap the pickups for some old Gibson "T-top" pickups I got free from my techy, and that alone opened up the guitar...all the rest of the innards was stock. Then stuff like the bridge (Gotoh) and the tail (Gibson TP6) may have had a hand in the tone, but that's subjective...did seem to me to give it a little more punch. The bridge was the most expensive upgrade to my guitar. I think it was like 40 bucks or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Heres my UNDER £10 upgrade Buy the black plates for Epi LP (Can't use standard ones) to match Gibsons (£4-6) & change the jack cover for a chrome (RRP £2-4) Once you get into the electronics you spend alot more & guitar specialists can be expensive Heres my guys quotes Pickup fitting £15 Filling & repositioning of drill holes £5 Setup £35-50 (£50 is a full clean also) Electrics no experience yet but I'm betting £15 again to have them professionally done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Check out my youtube vid below on the hot-rodded set swap out. No other changes to wiring, pots or caps and it made a massive difference as they have a lot of clarity. I don't think you could go wrong with the JB/Jazz if you like to play rock. My other fave 'cheap' pickups with a lot of mid range and top end bite are the Gibson 490 R & T. These are great for rock but would also suit your bluesey stuff too, being more articulate than the JB/Jazz. The other thing you could try is getting an EQ pedal.............still worth having even if you swap pups in the end anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9rI5yP4v_k Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hi Cap'n - As a newbie here a few months ago, I had electronics problems with my Epi SG and the great people here gave me all kinds of great instruction on how to switch out my electronics. I had no soldering experience. I replaced all my pots & caps with great success. Now my soldering wasn't pretty -- to ashamed to post pics -- -- but I was impressed with myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Greenfog Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Wow, thanks for all the input. I don't have a camera to post pics, but it's a wine red Lp Classic Flame Maple top, white binding, came from factory with the pickguard unattached so it has no holes drilled in it. I'm glad cause I love a Paul but hate the pickguard. I'm not set on getting pickups at the moment, but when I do I'm going for the JB/JAZZ combo. AlanH's video (remember it well) and a couple of others sold me on them a long time ago. I did a lot of research on the GFS Fat Pat a while back and came to the conclusion (right or wrong) that it wouldn't be that much of an improvement over the stock pups. I'm not sure what mine are. Burstbuckers? I can tell you they don't have the metal covers on them. I'm all for changing the pots and wiring, jack and switch. Is there another brand of pot as good, but metric? I don't mind drilling the body for the CTS pots, but it's my understanding that my knobs won't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 yes, you can buy decent pots that fit. However, i am not sure of the best place for you to get them because i am UK based. The modification required to fit the imperial size pots is minimal. AlanH, i loved your tube vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Cap'n, Welcome to the forum. I won't go into the changes in "sound" that new pots, caps and wiring will or will not make. I will say that it can make a difference in the mechanics of how well your electronic work. Most forum members agree that changing the sound of your guitar comes first from amp/pickups, then lastly guitar electronics. Anyway...with that said... To answer your question: Bourns pots are metric and can be purchased here as part of a set: http://bcsguitars.com/ There are probably other places on the net as well. Many of our members use upgraded quality Alphas. I don't use them so maybe one of the other members will provide a link. If you have some time you might also be interested in reading this: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/61124-let-me-rephrase-the-question-p94-swap-questions/ Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Greenfog Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Well, a friend offered to sell me the stock pick-ups out of (of all things) his Washburn Delta King semi-hollow. His brother, who has been playing 25 yrs and is the local electric guitar authority, has been telling me for three yrs now that I should find some "Delta King Pickups". I always ask why since if I remember right it was a $100 maybe $200 guitar. He always says, "Yes, it's a cheap guitar, but the pick-ups are hot as hell and sound great. So, the other day I actually HEARD him play that guitar and I can hear it myself, they sound hot and clear. Two days ago, my friend told me he would sell them to me for $50. Still want to upgrade the caps and pots, but I gotta tell ya, I'm stoked! Oh, completely unrelated but, I got that Hardwire Delay I mentioned in the OP, AND a MXR Micro Flanger. It's amazing how a good delay opens up that Champion 600, and that analog flanger is sweet (not bragging, just VERY impressed)! Crap! I think I see a 1x12 cab in my near future! G.A.S. sucks when you can't afford the habit. Tax returns only come once a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewblue Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Welcome to the forum. I just put a set of GFS vintage '59s in my LP Studio and they really made a big difference. Cost around $75 delivered. Will change the pots and caps soon but the pup's alone were well worth the money. enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 I hope the "Delta King"s sound as good in your LP as they did in the Washburn, but, if they don't suit once they're in, don't give up on GFS........while it's true that their alnico magnet "fat pats" don't make a big difference in tone from stock Epi p'ups the "Crunchy Pats" ceramic p'ups have the bite of a pittbull ! I was recently gifted w/a SG clone loaded w/them (wifes Valentine to me, she's the best ) and I actually like them more than the 490/498 alnico set in my Gibby SG Std........they have bite/sting/ballz for days, and when overdriven lightly, to a goodly blues "crunch" they sing like an African American gospel alto..... they sound so good that i'm actually considering ripping out the p'ups on my Gibby and replacing them with this "budget brand" set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trewblue Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 AlanH suggested an EQ pedal. Great idea...I use an Electro Harmonix Knockout pedal. You can make any Guitar sound like any guitar. Lots of tonal possibilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Welcome to the Forum! What everyone said here is true, myself, I'd drop the $25 to buy new pots from Ebay. You'll never the get tonal quality out of your pickups with the stock controls. Good, cheap investment. Check this vendor, 4 pots (CTS) and shipping less than $25. 500K Audio Pot, CTS Keep in mind that the mounting holes will have to be enlarged slightly. Put some painters (blue) masking tape on the topside over the finish to help keep from chipping the paint, and be sure to use a sharp bit. A trick that has always worked for me, when drilling holes in guitar bodies and head stocks is to use a sharp bit and dril with your drill in reverse. Use low, steady pressure, but this way the flutes on the bit can't dig in, which is when chips occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougefresh91 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 This thread convinced me to upgrade the pots, ect. in my epi sg, but when I went to open it to try and figure out what I need to buy I noticed it says 500k on my pots. Does this mean someone already changed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 This thread convinced me to upgrade the pots, ect. in my epi sg, but when I went to open it to try and figure out what I need to buy I noticed it says 500k on my pots. Does this mean someone already changed them? 500s are stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougefresh91 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 500s are stock. OK, thanks. So how do I know putting in new 500K pots will be any better than what I currently have? I read through those threads that Willy had linked, but maybe I missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 OK, thanks. So how do I know putting in new 500K pots will be any better than what I currently have? I read through those threads that Willy had linked, but maybe I missed something. There are a lot of differing opinions on the subject. Some feel that the more-expensive (CTS) pots improve the overall tone of the guitar (not me), as well as giving more precise control over the control range (maybe). Many feel that they're more reliable and long-lasting than the stock Epi pots (I agree). This is definitely a YMMV thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Greenfog Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 This thread convinced me to upgrade the pots, ect. in my epi sg, but when I went to open it to try and figure out what I need to buy I noticed it says 500k on my pots. Does this mean someone already changed them? No, not necessarily. Even my $100 Lp Special I used to have had 500k pots, just not good quality. I don't know. I've heard some people say that if it already has 500k pots, leave it alone. Others say that those stock 500ks are junk. I think I'd replace them if you can afford it. Like I said in my original post- if money was no object I would go "all out" for a Hotrodded HB set and RS electronics. Now I'm trying to discover cheap ways to circumvent. Btw, I heard a trick the other day. Rather than risk chipping the finish, Roll up a piece of sandpaper and ream out the holes that way. They say the difference in the holes sizes is such that it doesn't take long at all. I like that better than attacking my LP with a drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Greenfog Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 AlanH suggested an EQ pedal. Great idea...I use an Electro Harmonix Knockout pedal. You can make any Guitar sound like any guitar. Lots of tonal possibilities! I have a Fish & Chips tucked away in a drawer, lol. Sometimes it does weird things to my signal. Slapback type sounds, but not good ones (I know, sounds odd right?) The negative qualities of the pedal seemed to outweigh the tonal shaping qualities. I've considered buying a better one, but haven't as of yet. I don't like adding more pedals to the chain than I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Greenfog Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Someone had asked for pics- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexygibson Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 All good advice here and this is from guys that know. As stated, swap out the electronics first. You can get a complete kit from Stew Mac for $54 with high quality parts. After that, you may decide the stock pups aren't that bad. If you do still want to change them, look to buy used pups. Check the forum buy/sell section and put a thread there what you are looking for. I don't think it would as expensive as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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