Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Well as promised I did a Comparison between all 3 of my Les Pauls Just clarify they all have slightly different setups Gibson - Burstbucker 1 & 2 with unknown Capacitors Epi Custom - 490R & 498T With Polyester Film.047UF 200V Capacitors Epi 1959 - Burstbucker 2 & 3 with Mallory 150 Capacitors Apart from this they ALL use switchcraft, grover & other standard parts! OK... (All were tested at Vol 10,10 Tone 5,5 Both Pickups. Through a Marshall MG Series 15CD on clean with NO effects pedals) When comparing them I came to quite a surprising conclusion... The EPI 1959 has a nice rich tone to it and resonated at a higher pitch than the other 2 and so was better suited for more high e heavy songs where you wanted yourself to be heard more The GIBSON produced a beefier tone more suited to the chords and rosonated longer too. BUT when I got to the Epi Custom I was surprised to find that it MATCHED the Gibson in both beef & rosonation! It does go to show you tho that even tho their is a price difference of £1500! by upgrading all the parts on an Epi to Gibson stock you can match the real thing! (I went back and forth multiple times to be sure it was not a mistake!) I have to say it did surprise me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Thanks for posting, SS. I think most would agree that, electronics and hardware being equal, the differences bewteen Gibby and Epi will be negligable and probably more influnced by how resonant the piece(s) of wood that was used to make either. What do you think about playability and feel between the two brands now you've got them to your specs? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Hmm... The Gibson is EASIER to play because of the weight relief but sat down because they both have C type necks they where no different. Sure the finish has a nicer to touch finished on The Gibson not being coated in plastic but I think as long as you get a base colour that YOU LIKE you can't really go wrong. Oh in case people wanted to know heres the cost of all my upgrades Pickups £90 Tuners £50 Bridge £25 Tailpiece £25 Knobs £5 Pointers £10 Switchcraft £15 Capacitors £5 Screws £4 Installation costs £20 (for Capacitors, pickups & Switchcraft) Total £244 Selling the old parts £141 Total cost £101! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Well, all of them seem like great guitars. You're lucky to have all 3 to choose from! I love the '59. Wish I had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 If you find a nice epi LP and mod it up, then the difference is probably negligible to 95% of guitar players. Bearing in mind that there are slight tonal and playability variations between every Gibby, and I'm sure there are gibbys out there that are just dead and there are gibbys out there that are sublime, and could never be matched in tone by any other guitar ever built. The same is true of the epi LPs to an extent, no two will have the exact same tonal characteristics, some will resonate better than others. So despite the fact they are built from different wood, some MIC Epiphones will be better than some gibbys. I remember once reading a story about Mick Jagger in a music shop, He'd popped in to buy something small like strings or a mouth organ, I can't rightly remember. he spied a row of guitars on the wall so he went over and had a wee strum on each one without an amp, picked the one than resonated the nicest regardless of its appearance/pickups etc and bought it for the band knowing that it would be a great sounding guitar. I reckon that a lot of people who buy Gibbys are either more likely to be professional musicians who a) Need to be seen using the right gear to look more professional. and> b)Don't want the hassle of having to upgrade their kit before it is ready for action. or, the non pro's who often buy Gibby as an investment, knowing that their guitar will hold its value and may even gain in value. For the average joe player like me Who is not a professional musician and not very flash with cash, it's hard to justify paying out the extra couple of grand just so I can sit in my music room and play classic rock riffs through a practice amp. And that is when a nice Epi LP just fits the bill perfectly, offering great sound and playability for and very fair price. Now I'm sure there will be some exceptions to the sweeping generalizations i have just made, and there will be Pros somewhere out there using Chinese LPs, and there is probably the odd electrician or plumber playing smoke on the water on one string in his bedroom on a stunning Gibby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Solid, Thanks for the post....Good insights. I go with most on this one. A good guitar is where you find it...(and they are all different)..Fortunately, Epiphone and Gibson happen to make a lot of them. Every guitar is individual and you do get what you pay for...almost...sometimes... Most stock guitars out there today are, at very least, OK if not good. (keep in mind I grew up in the late 50s.) A few adjustments and many can be great. Find what you like and play the hell out of it.....We...and the bank...will let you know if you become famous. Otherwise...enjoy! Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 To be better than a Gibson Les Paul ,the Epi doesn't necessessarily have to be modded.I have an Epi Les Paul Traditional Pro with coil-tap and it sounds for the world like a PAF Les Paul when in the humbucker mode,especially the neck pickup.On a recent tripto my local music store I tried an Epi 1959 Tribute and it was the best Les Paul I've ever played bar none,no other Les Paul I've ever played sounded or felt as nice as this one did. If I had had the $1,030 to buy it I would've on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 There's little to say that hasn't been covered by the other guys, thanks for the comparison SSI, seems like you now have 3 screamers to alternate between. Are you planning on keeping all of them, or just your fave one or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 I want to keep all 3 honestly I love them all for their own personal querks, playablity & looks. They all have hardcases too so I know their reasonably safe. Even as an investment especially the 59 its definately worth holding them so they increase in value. I don't have plans to buy anymore tho I'm still waiting on a response of my broken neck Silverbust 66 SG G400 hopefully that will be soon Depending on what is decided I may have another SG in Epiphone or Gibson format... but may just go back in the bank if bad (Sell the guts for money) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 No offense and not meaning to be a sh!te disturber but rating guitars by playing through a 15W solid state amp with an 8" speaker isn't going to give a fair comparison. The sonic and tonic limitations of this type of amp don't allow for good sampling data. Also don't tie your retirement fund up in Epis, they aren't considered collectible and not likely to appreciate in value save for a few vintage models, the Elitist line and maybe some of the Beatles inspired stuff. Limited run mass produced Epis will never make you money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 No offense and not meaning to be a sh!te disturber but rating guitars by playing through a 15W solid state amp with an 8" speaker isn't going to give a fair comparison. The sonic and tonic limitations of this type of amp don't allow for good sampling data. Also don't tie your retirement fund up in Epis, they aren't considered collectible and not likely to appreciate in value save for a few vintage models, the Elitist line and maybe some of the Beatles inspired stuff. Limited run mass produced Epis will never make you money. Marshalls are good amps and this was tested at a moderate volume (not 10 so no chance of any distortion etc) I also have a Mustang I & Frontman 15B so I'm well aware that different amps produce different outputs, but Marshalls are best known for use with Les Pauls so it was a fairer basis to run off. In most cases Epi's are indeed not worth much. HOWEVER their are exceptions good examples would be the Slash & Zakk Wayde models which have kept or gained in value. The main reason for this is LIMITED TO LESS THAN 2,000 Units Worldwide. (Here in the UK that equates to a mere 20 units!) BUT Also they use higher quality components (Gibson, EMG, Switchcraft etc) The 59, 60 & Bonamassa are sure to join this group because of this Custom Shops like the Silverburst are indeed 10,000+ strong and so loose alot of value but even they can hold a little more value than a basic model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 No offense and not meaning to be a sh!te disturber but rating guitars by playing through a 15W solid state amp with an 8" speaker isn't going to give a fair comparison. The sonic and tonic limitations of this type of amp don't allow for good sampling data. Also don't tie your retirement fund up in Epis, they aren't considered collectible and not likely to appreciate in value save for a few vintage models, the Elitist line and maybe some of the Beatles inspired stuff. Limited run mass produced Epis will never make you money. I wouldn't tie up your retirement fund in new Gibsons either. They aren't any more likely to increase in value than an Epi will. In fact, you would probably lose more money on your new Gibson than your Epi originally cost to buy as soon as you walk out the door with it. The days of buying a guitar expecting to make a profit on it down the line are long gone. Even the original classics won't bring you a profit considering the price you would have to pay to get one now. Buy a guitar for how it plays and sounds, not for what you hope and think it may bring at resale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 I wouldn't tie up your retirement fund in new Gibsons either. They aren't any more likely to increase in value than an Epi will. In fact, you would probably lose more money on your new Gibson than your Epi originally cost to buy as soon as you walk out the door with it. The days of buying a guitar expecting to make a profit on it down the line are long gone. Even the original classics won't bring you a profit considering the price you would have to pay to get one now. Buy a guitar for how it plays and sounds, not for what you hope and think it may bring at resale. Agreed Hence My Gibson costing me £1240 (£760 less than he paid a year ago!) I Buy to play not to sit their collecting dust so lets get rockin \../ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think a cupla points are worthwhile regardless of other opinions. 1. Hard case is mandatory if you think the guitar is worth keeping and playing. 2. Every individual instrument is different. 3. Playability is primary - and that will vary per each individual player's technique and preferences. 4. Yupper, Epi and Gibson both have fine instruments to play every day; one would hope that if nothing else, a Gibbie would keep playing well longer, but... 5. Compared to the 50s and 60s, overall quality of guitars available is incredibly better. The value - playability vs. cost - of longtime and newer brands seems to me to be much higher than back then. Another factor not mentioned, though, is setup to strings and playing style. On magnetic pickup guitars that includes pickup adjustment to string height/desired sound, etc. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtb2000 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well from experience, I have both also, a 1980 gibson LP standard w PAF's and my 09 Epi LP w reissued PAF's I also play thru a Marshall MG mini stack n my Epi outplays my gibson. Its mostly the way they are made, some gibsons are the best there is, and then some Epi's are the same way. Just my thoughts and opinions tho, you play what feels and sounds best to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budglo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well from experience, I have both also, a 1980 gibson LP standard w PAF's and my 09 Epi LP w reissued PAF's I also play thru a Marshall MG mini stack n my Epi outplays my gibson. Its mostly the way they are made, some gibsons are the best there is, and then some Epi's are the same way. Just my thoughts and opinions tho, you play what feels and sounds best to you. Its hard to tell the difference playing thru a budget amp.Play it thru a good tube amp.The differences might be clearer.I play my epi thru a deluxe reverb .Played the Gibson thru one and found the epi slightly darker sounding,but it wasnt enough of a difference to pay 8x more.The Epis can be fine guitars in their own rite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yes Marshalls are good amps but when you speak of the relationship between Marshalls and Gibsons you are talking about high end valve amps not budget amps. I played a 30W Marshall Valvestate for 15 years and it doesn't compare with high end stuff. I finally was able to pick up a tube amp this winter. It was like I had 9 new guitars, everything came alive even my Epis. It isn't feasible to rate guitars using an amp like that. I don't have any guitars that I expect to go up in value and only two guitars I own were bought new, I go for used stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upiory Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Interesting--and civil--discussion. I must second Milod's opinion that we're living in something of a guitar golden age. There's never been such a vast selection with such high quality available to the average player. Also, as an old-timer, I insist that the obsession with vintage instruments has as much to do with antiquarian collecting as with sound/playability. I live just south of Kalamazoo, and I take my guitars to a former Gibson luthier. He'll frequently state much the same. He flatly comments that today's Gretch produces guitars far superior to the Gretsch of yesteryear. I'm just happy to be around when I can afford a harum of eight guitars for what I would have paid for two Gibby's back in my twenties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 No offense and not meaning to be a sh!te disturber but rating guitars by playing through a 15W solid state amp with an 8" speaker isn't going to give a fair comparison. The sonic and tonic limitations of this type of amp don't allow for good sampling data. Its hard to tell the difference playing thru a budget amp.Play it thru a good tube amp.The differences might be clearer.I play my epi thru a deluxe reverb .Played the Gibson thru one and found the epi slightly darker sounding,but it wasnt enough of a difference to pay 8x more.The Epis can be fine guitars in their own rite. Yes Marshalls are good amps but when you speak of the relationship between Marshalls and Gibsons you are talking about high end valve amps not budget amps. I played a 30W Marshall Valvestate for 15 years and it doesn't compare with high end stuff. I finally was able to pick up a tube amp this winter. It was like I had 9 new guitars, everything came alive even my Epis. It isn't feasible to rate guitars using an amp like that. Sure guys, I doubt you'd find any argument from anyone here, the thing is though that not everyone can afford a good valve amp, and if they could they might have to rein in the volume because of their residential situation. I think though that testing several guitars at once, one of the main criteria would be they are all played through the same amp (whatever that is) at the same settings, if the tester only has a solid state amp, and that's all he expects to play them through in the immediate future then it's probably best to run the tests with that amp, that's where their sound will be coming from anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well said mate Of course would love a TUBED 100+W amp to rock on but solid state is the best I can do for now in terms of space, price & preventing a nock at the door from the guys in blue... ("No officer don't take it away!!! PLEASE!" ) I love a discussion that has so many varied opinions. But ultimately everyones tastes, price range & experience will dictate what they know & believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 This entire thread is why I -- as a beginning guitar player -- love this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 You don't need to break the bank to buy a tube amp. Nor does it need to be 100W. There are great low watt amps (30W or less) out there, the Marshall Class A for instance ($499 in Canada). Don't let the 5W fool you. Put a distortion or OD pedal in front and you're ready to go! My Mesa Boogie 5:25 Express has a 5W class A or 25W class AB selector and the 5W is louder than my old 30W Marshall solid state. The class A sounds so good I rarely use the 25W option. Epiphone also makes affordable tube amps, Fender and Peavey too. IMHO guys should buy fewer guitars and invest more in a decent amp if money is an issue. It does make a huge difference. The amp shouldn't be the weakest part of your signal chain. All I was trying to say is that amp doesn't allow a guitar's full potential to come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbee Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I recently picked up an Epi Les Paul Honeyburst with Burstbucker Pros, Gibson tuners, tusq nut and hard shell case for $400. This guitar is immaculate and plays like a dream. I really fell into this one guys and I feel like I actually own a Gibson. It's just like they say, whatever sounds and resonates the best regardless of the name on the headstock, is all that matters, unless you really need to see that Gibson logo, nothing wrong with that but those of us who can't really afford the price tag can take comfort in knowing that there are guitars out there that can satisfy even the most discriminate of ears!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budglo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 You don't need to break the bank to buy a tube amp. Nor does it need to be 100W. There are great low watt amps (30W or less) out there, the Marshall Class A for instance ($499 in Canada). Don't let the 5W fool you. Put a distortion or OD pedal in front and you're ready to go! My Mesa Boogie 5:25 Express has a 5W class A or 25W class AB selector and the 5W is louder than my old 30W Marshall solid state. The class A sounds so good I rarely use the 25W option. Epiphone also makes affordable tube amps, Fender and Peavey too. IMHO guys should buy fewer guitars and invest more in a decent amp if money is an issue. It does make a huge difference. The amp shouldn't be the weakest part of your signal chain. All I was trying to say is that amp doesn't allow a guitar's full potential to come through. Well said.I have 2 epis (a LP Custom and a Dot), I play them thru a Fender Deluxe reverb and a lower priced blues jr.They sound phenomenal thru the drri.It also sounds good thru my blues jr as well. A good quality amp will do wonders even for a budget guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Great comparison, but it is semi-flawed because as has been mentioned - at the end of the day that Marshall 15 and the entire MG series are blight on the Marshall name - they are not and should not be compared to any Marshall that sounds good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.