Music: Discovery or Invention?

[FirstMeasure]

Do you think music is an Invention or a Discovery?

[charlie brown]

Do you think music is an Invention or a Discovery?

 

Both. Still is. ;>)

 

CB

[milod]

At minimum I'd say that "music" is something of a mammalian trait. Various sorts of music have been invented at least by humans, but to me much of that is a matter of conforming that which is natural to that which we've created that gives what we call "scales" or whatever.

 

m

[Versatile]

Darwin vs Intelligent Design :blink:

 

V

 

[manse]

Do you think music is an Invention or a Discovery?

 

Well, back in pre-history, birdsong probably influenced the development of human music.....so maybe we should ask the birds if they are making music or just communicating with each other...

 

 

Manse

[FirstMeasure]

I really think it's a discovery. Music is the manipulation of sound waves, what we call "In Tune" is the equal division of sound waves by other sound waves. We had to discover that before we invented ways to manipulate it.

 

I really think the way we perceive music shapes the way we learn and play. Players who teach themselves and try to reinvent the way music is played inevitably discover the pentatonic scale because it sounds cool. I imagine the first musical explorers discovered the same scale, they just had to invent the terminology.

 

IMO, this belief shapes the way we learn our instruments. Even though that belief is seldom addressed.

[rocketman]

I would say that music is discovery. It was always there in the sounds heard of the past. A song is invention though, i.e., assembling the musical parts in a coherent manner to create something new.

[FirstMeasure]

Songs and Styles are certainly inventions.

 

This question actually hit me back in high school. I was sitting in Science Class listening to the teacher talk about sound waves and the way they are divided into overtones. They were talking about chords, the way tones and over tones react to each other is Music, although they never put it in those terms. To me, that made it a discovery.

 

Then in Band, they never touched on the science behind sound wave manipulation or the way overtones make up chords. Which seemed to be a pretty important point to gloss over.

[McDuff]

I would go with discovery. I find chords that are new to me, I stumble upon riffs that I like. I don't make them, they exist independently of me.

[ChanMan]

Aren't some inventions actually discoveries?

[fl00dsm0k3]

i think more

of a discovery

[fl00dsm0k3]

its kind of like oil its always been their but nobody knew it existed

[brad1]

Aren't some inventions actually discoveries?

Yes, they are not mutually exclusive concepts. So asking the question is rather pointless.

[FirstMeasure]

Aren't some inventions actually discoveries?

Discovery can lead to invention, and invention can lead to discovery, but I wouldn't say they are the same thing at all.

 

Yes, they are not mutually exclusive concepts. So asking the question is rather pointless.

No such thing as a pointless question. However, there are pointless answers.

[Guest FarnsBarns]

Indeed, both are true. Scientifically, the rules of notes, scales and chords existed before man. Rhythm also.

 

Then there is the fact that those rules of physics have been bent as an invention of man. For example, there is a "B Sharp" which is different to C, they are so close western music compromises to make the system work. Often, when recording, instruments have there intonation adjusted to correct for the key of the song because of this, and several other compromises. These compromises are clearly invention.

 

Then, from a philosophical perspective we could ask, were the physical, mathematical rules music before a person was there to interpret, enjoy, invent or discover a melody, a chord or a progression

 

We have another philosophical question, does one create, or discover a melody? Certainly it's mathematical structure existed always but does that take away the creativity of the artist. Is the song reinvented every time it is played, or even every time it's heard. You don't hear of a painter discovering a painting but his materials and the light frequencies of the colours all existed before man.

 

These philosophical questions have no correct answer. My "feeling" of what the answer, to me, is changes with my mood.

[ChanMan]

I did not say they were the same thing, ludwig. That would be your interpretation, and yes, it's pointless.

 

 

In some cases, intending to invent something leads to a discovery. In many cases, making a certain discovery... say the given properties of an alloy... will lead to an invention.

 

To wit: Hearing squirrells drop nuts on a log while birds are singing could be considered "discovering" music. Walking over to the log and beating on it while you whistle would be an invention.

 

 

Examples: Viagra... an attempt at an angina medicine. Chocolate chip cookies.... an attempt at making chocolate cookies....

 

Teflon, a failed CFC refrigerant experiment....

 

 

All inventions generated by discovery.

[James Allen]

What an absolutely wonderful question! This will require some serious thought and research.

[damian]

Good inventive thread....I'm glad I discovered it........ [thumbup] ..........

[freak show]

The chicken!

 

[retrosurfer1959]

Trick question

 

so lame answer is both

 

It's kind of like fire, salt and sticks and stones as tools - We first discovered the usefulness but since then we have been inventing different uses and methods to use them.

[milod]

Vitruvius discussed harmonics in his treatise on architecture several thousand years ago, and he was descriptive rather than innovative, per se.

 

Pre-literate neolithic societies have music of various sorts.

 

Other mammalian species make specific types of noises alone or together that one might easily call "music."

 

The ways in which we perform "music" will vary among humans, and has varied; the use of "tools" for music beyond the human voice has varied and that's easily called an invention.

 

But it's rather like various shelters we've created over archaeological history if not written history, we adapt different ways and concepts of architecture, but all follow certain engineering rules that were relatively obvious even to our pre-literate ancestors.

 

m