Intonation changes with weather.

[davidl]

I live in an area with big temperature and humidity changes.

I checked the intonation on my ES-339 on Friday and found it needed adjustment and it had just had a setup 2 weeks previous. I then checked the rest of my guitars and all of them are off.

Not a big deal as I can intonate myself but I was surprised.

In all honesty, my guitars have spent most of the last 2 weeks hanging on my wall in a heated building.

I guess they should spend more time in their cases during season changes.

Sorry for the grainy photo. Taken with my BlackBerry.

Dave

[stein]

This is interesting. It may actually be a real subject.

 

It is unlikely that the weather has enough effect on the strings or the lentgh of anything, but the neck bow and the height of the action has an effect on intonation. If the action is a little higher or lower, it changes the amount the string has to stretch, and this DOES effect the tuning.

 

And even more curious, how does a guitar neck react to changes in wheather hanging and having a little more wieght as opposed to none at all? It might seem that hanging it would have more of an effect of straighting the neck, and perhaps changes in climate would help the wood to adjust that way.

 

So, are the notes toward the middle of the neck flatter or sharper? Does it point to less bow or more? Do you sense a change in action as well?

[fl00dsm0k3]

around here one day it can be 70 degrees and the next day its snowing

[davidl]

This is interesting. It may actually be a real subject.

 

It is unlikely that the weather has enough effect on the strings or the lentgh of anything, but the neck bow and the height of the action has an effect on intonation. If the action is a little higher or lower, it changes the amount the string has to stretch, and this DOES effect the tuning.

 

And even more curious, how does a guitar neck react to changes in wheather hanging and having a little more wieght as opposed to none at all? It might seem that hanging it would have more of an effect of straighting the neck, and perhaps changes in climate would help the wood to adjust that way.

 

So, are the notes toward the middle of the neck flatter or sharper? Does it point to less bow or more? Do you sense a change in action as well?

 

I haven't noticed any change in action. No fret buzz. Coming in a little flat at the 12th.

Nothing is off by much but I've become a bit of a stickler since I started doing my own adjustments. Most people likely wouldn't notice a difference. Maybe I'm a little too picky.

[BigKahune]

It is unlikely that the weather has enough effect on the strings or the lentgh of anything .....

 

I disagree.

 

Temp and humidity can put you out of tune at a bar gig. The more moving bodies, the higher the temp and humidity go, and you've got to check your tunning if you got more than one guitar player or a keyboard.

 

The weather - temp and humidity - changes the tune on my instruments at home. It can go a quarter step sharp or flat easily. If the tuning can be affected, I don't see why the intonation couldn't change a bit too - although I admit I never check that unless I'm changing strings.

[stein]

I disagree.

 

Temp and humidity can put you out of tune at a bar gig. The more moving bodies, the higher the temp and humidity go, and you've got to check your tunning if you got more than one guitar player or a keyboard.

 

The weather - temp and humidity - changes the tune on my instruments at home. It can go a quarter step sharp or flat easily. If the tuning can be affected, I don't see why the intonation couldn't change a bit too - although I admit I never check that unless I'm changing strings.

That makes sense as well. I have noticed for myself that a cold guitar brought into the bar will not stay in tune too long until it warms up. I would say I have noticed that when I tune it, regardless of if it is cold or warm, that the intonation is still good. (I know because when I tune, I always tune by what it is up and down the neck-not open strings).

 

But still, it makes sense.

[stein]

I haven't noticed any change in action. No fret buzz. Coming in a little flat at the 12th.

Nothing is off by much but I've become a bit of a stickler since I started doing my own adjustments. Most people likely wouldn't notice a difference. Maybe I'm a little too picky.

Do you suppose it is something you just now noticed, that perhaps was always that way?

[duane v]

My hollow bodies and guitars with one-piece necks are effected. My older Gibsons with 3 piece necks, and my GMP with a 5 piece neck.... They dont budge at all

[PP_CS336]

I've noticed that myself since the Winter is over in the Northeast US. All of a sudden it seems like the action gets much closer and tighter (harder to bend strings)

and the intonation seems to be a bit off more in the upper frets, where neck joins the body. I think it's because there's more humidity in the air. The weather hasn't

gotten steady yet, so it's harder at the is time of the year to keep the intonation and tuning the way you always want it because of the weather's inconsistency. It does

this on all my guitars which have truss rods. The only guitars I have where the necks and intonation stay true are my Martin D-35 Dreadnought acoustic guitar and

my Hernandis Classical guitar. Neither one of these have adjustable truss rods. They may go out of tune occasionally because of the change in temperature, but the

intonation never goes out. Right now I feel like I can get by with my 3 electric guitars, but soon I'll take them in for their warmer weather adjustment. Then it'll have

to be done again after Summer's over. I always keep the same gauge/make strings on all my guitars, so the intonation stays pretty constant even when I do a string

change until those times of the year when the weather starts to make it's drastic changes.

[Notes_Norton]

As the temperature gets cooler, metal contracts and since that is what your strings are made of, the cold weather should make your guitar go sharp (all other things being equal). As the temp goes up, the opposite happens and the guitar goes flat.

 

This is the exact opposite of temperature's effects on the saxophone. Something I've lived with because I've played in guitar bands all my life, and it is easier to retune a sax than a guitar (sax has only one tuning adjustment as opposed to six on the guitar).

 

The reason why the sax goes flat when the air get cooler is because the speed of sound is slower in cooler weather, which has the effect of making the sax seem longer (it takes the sound longer to get to the first open key).

 

The first thing I do when I pick up my guitar is to tune it up. Sometimes it only needs a little touch up, sometimes more, but I want to play with it in tune all the time to keep my ears in shape.

 

Notes ♫ Norton

[milod]

I'm pretty much with Duane on this one...

 

The main reason, in fact, that I got the dot is that the 175 I have is verrrrry sensitive to temp/humidity changes. Something I think even to air pressure changes.

 

OTOH, my set neck 1970s Guild S100c solidbody SG "clone" works well regardless as long as it's not super-frozen in a gig trailer at -30F, but frankly I wanted something that looked more jazz/blues as well as rock. Hence the Dot.

 

But I think it's the body more than the neck or strings... OTOH, I've never seen any research data to conclude that for sure.

 

m

[charlie brown]

Heck, my guitars go sharp or flat, from being stored, for any real length of time=

a week, or more. But "humidity" is all over the place, here in "God's Country!"

Just like the weather, overall.

 

They all have various neck builds, too. From Solid, to 5-piece. They will drive me crazy,

for about an hour, or so, after I retrieve them, from their cases...then, they seem

to "settle down," and stay in tune, very well. So, humidity is a factor, I'm sure,

as the temps, are pretty constant, in the house, regardless of season. Now, playing

"outside," (in Spring, Summer, and early Fall) can be a nightmare...especially for the

12-strings, in the evening hours. ;>b

 

CB

[davidl]

Come to think of it, I hadn't checked the intonation on my solid bodies in a while. I really only noticed with the semi-hollow to begin with.

I'll keep an eye on the 339 and 12 string.

Thanks for all of your opinions and insights.

 

Dave

[stein]

My hollow bodies and guitars with one-piece necks are effected. My older Gibsons with 3 piece necks, and my GMP with a 5 piece neck.... They dont budge at all

That makes sense as well..I have an L-7 with a two piece neck. I was always amazed how when ever I would get it out after sitting or traveling, it would almost always be in tune. (it kinda freaks me out with a hollowbody because I expect the opposite).

[duane v]

That makes sense as well..I have an L-7 with a two piece neck. I was always amazed how when ever I would get it out after sitting or traveling, it would almost always be in tune. (it kinda freaks me out with a hollowbody because I expect the opposite).

 

Those L7's are great instruments... My pal has one with a Charlie Christian pup in it

[stein]

Those L7's are great instruments... My pal has one with a Charlie Christian pup in it

I am quite blessed. I prayed to jesus asking for one. Having been turned down for credit at guitat center (they just started thier credit program) I thought it was hopeless. But by some freakish chance, found it in a really cheap guitar store who happened to do credit. (in the early 90's this was IMPOSSIBLE).

It is not really collectable. It is a '61, and thus has a perfect great neck. It was routed for humbuckers. They have the patent # decals, so could have been added when the guitar was new but who knows. And, the knobs are not in the proper place for a gibson.

 

In addition to that, by some freak chance I had gotton it out of storage and had it at home when I lost the storage. I had kept it there for almost the whole time to keep it "safe".

[Lungimsam]

Why can't they make a neck that stays straight? This is the 21st century. You'de think they would have solved this by now. I don't want on board effects...I want a bass I don't have to set up every month.

[stein]

Why can't they make a neck that stays straight? This is the 21st century. You'de think they would have solved this by now. I don't want on board effects...I want a bass I don't have to set up every month.

It has always been an issue. That is one reason why thin necks didn't even appear before the 60's, and why even then they had necks with the v shape, so they could try and keep stability.

 

And as you know, it is even worse for basses. that is why many have these neck-through designs with all the layers, and why Rics have the dual trus rods.

[cookieman15061]

I am quite blessed. I prayed to jesus asking for one. Having been turned down for credit at guitat center (they just started thier credit program) I thought it was hopeless. But by some freakish chance, found it in a really cheap guitar store who happened to do credit. (in the early 90's this was IMPOSSIBLE).

It is not really collectable. It is a '61, and thus has a perfect great neck. It was routed for humbuckers. They have the patent # decals, so could have been added when the guitar was new but who knows. And, the knobs are not in the proper place for a gibson.

 

In addition to that, by some freak chance I had gotton it out of storage and had it at home when I lost the storage. I had kept it there for almost the whole time to keep it "safe".

 

What?

[marvar]

Why can't they make a neck that stays straight? This is the 21st century. You'de think they would have solved this by now. I don't want on board effects...I want a bass I don't have to set up every month.

carbon fiber?

I have to adjust the necks on almost all my guitars about 2 times a year, due to weather/temp changes here.

For some reason, I never have to adjust the neck on my 85 LP.

[Namvet]

I keep my axes cased when not using them. Also keep the house temperature and humidity levels constant. They tend to stay in tune and have not had to do any action or intonation adjustments unless I've changed string guages. Only use the stands for breaks when I get them out.

[Notes_Norton]

I'm sure the humidity must have some effect, and there is a metal truss rod in the neck but do this....

 

Look at the power company, cable TV and telephone cables that are strung from pole to pole in your area. Look at how low they sag in the hot summer days and how much tighter they are in the dead of winter.

 

There is actually a formula the phone company has that allows the installer to compute how much sag he/she should put into a span of cable that involves the length of the span and the temperature of the air while the cable is being installed.

 

If you install that piece of cable with no sag in the summer, during the winter you are asking for trouble.

 

Also, when I worked as a Cable TV field engineer, I noticed that the first cold snap of the year would test all the splices. As the cable contracts, if the splice is not tight enough, it pulls apart.

 

I'm sure the temperature must affect the truss rod and the wood of the guitar as well, and to tell the truth, I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to know what the major effect is. But from my two 'day gigs' with the phone company and cable TV manufacturer, I do know the strings have an effect, and I suspect they have the most effect on the tuning. Why? It's been my experience that the tuning changes happen fast when the temperature changes, and the strings have the least amount of mass so they should change temperature sooner.

 

When I get to the gig, I often open my guitar and sax case to let them adjust to room temperature while I'm setting up the PA system and then tune them up right before the downbeat, giving them the most time to adjust to the room. After decades of keeping my sax in tune with guitars, I've developed a decent ear for intonation, and can usually tell when anything has drifted enough to require a re-tune.

 

And you are never going to get an acoustic or acoustic/electric instrument to stay in tune. This is why the orchestra tunes up before every performance, and why you should tune up your guitar, bass, saxophone or any other instrument before you start playing -- and also as needed during the performance.

 

A digital synth stays in tune (at least for all practical purposes) and those B-3 organs that reference the very stable power company 60 cycles per second (60Hz) are very stable. Guitars, flutes, and saxes are not.

 

So whatever the reason, just accept the fact that you have to re-tune the guitar before playing it and even perhaps during the session.

 

Notes ♫

[Riffster]

The neck of my guitars go a little crazy twice a year,

 

from winter to spring and from fall to winter, even when I keep my Gibsons in their cases and have a pretty constant temperature in the house.

 

My guess is the humidity has a lot to do with it.

 

I don't mind it as it makes me set up my guitars.