Silenced Fred Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Equal power for everyone, or does someone need to be the leader? The bassist complains about everything until he gets someone to side with him, especially for a band name. I don't care that much about the band name, but everything he is suggesting is too br00tal (The Last of the Fallen, Whispered Last Breath, etc.) The other guitarist said that I should be the "leader" because I do most of the song writing and all of the lyrics for the songs. Am I in the wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 (The Last of the Fallen, Whispered Last Breath, etc.) These are certainly better than the "drunken" name you have... You need to have a band name that both pleases you and doesnt offend possible fans/promoters/venues etc... Its not a hard thing to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameBand Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I've been a professional musician most of my life and have a band now. The first thing you must do in a band if you intend to have a serious band for more than a few weeks, is decide "who is the leader"? The problem with not having a designated leader, is too many vague directions. Not enough focus. The second thing is the mission/focus for the band, what do you want to accomplish, what kind of audience and so on? Will you be a tribute band or have your own sound, even if you do covers. Clapton along with most successful musicians, cover other songs but do not copy other bands. The pick songs you can play well, or sell to an audience. Don't just pick songs YOU like. Learn the weaknesses of your band and stay away from them and find the strengths and play in to them. Remember, an audience wants to be entertained, they can listen to music anywhere. So pay attention to the energy of the song choices you make and the band's presentation of those songs. Learn the songs so well you don't have to think about them while playing them. Focus on and get the audience involved and have a good time. I hope this helps, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 . If you got an even number of band mates, yer gonna need someone to break ties. Odd number, democracy. Anyway you cut it, someone is gonna eventually get pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 It works three ways. 1. The Sloan method: Four songwriters with everyone contributing in their own way equally. Members fall into rolls (business, interviews, image, quiet one, etc) and everyone is happy. IMO this democratic setup rarely works. You need very special chemistry. 2. Dictatorships where one person is the leader and directs orders to everyone else down to what they wear and how they play. 3. A hybrid of the two where you have a leader, but other members have a buy in and some say. This tends to work the best, IMO, because the players tend to perform with more attitude if they have a creative stake in the music. My advice is to always have at least one member with more pull and say or you'll never get anything done. Eventually what happens is that you become the Grateful Dead musically: several musicians playing together, but each one is playing their own song. People will start to be malakas and shoehorn their own creative mark on the music without consideration for how the music sounds as a whole. At least that is what happened at the end of dundrearies and my band in college. You might have to lay down the law with your bassplayer and tell him you aren't using any of those names. You don't have to be a malaka, just be assertive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Rehearsal discipline is the hallmark of successful bands. Those who can't do it usually don't make it. It takes every member to see the prize: Prima Donnas usually don't make great band mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 It works three ways. 1. The Sloan method: Four songwriters with everyone contributing in their own way equally. Members fall into rolls (business, interviews, image, quiet one, etc) and everyone is happy. IMO this democratic setup rarely works. You need very special chemistry. 2. Dictatorships where one person is the leader and directs orders to everyone else down to what they wear and how they play. 3. A hybrid of the two where you have a leader, but other members have a buy in and some say. This tends to work the best, IMO, because the players tend to perform with more attitude if they have a creative stake in the music. My advice is to always have at least one member with more pull and say or you'll never get anything done. Eventually what happens is that you become the Grateful Dead musically: several musicians playing together, but each one is playing their own song. People will start to be malakas and shoehorn their own creative mark on the music without consideration for how the music sounds as a whole. At least that is what happened at the end of dundrearies and my band in college. You might have to lay down the law with your bassplayer and tell him you aren't using any of those names. You don't have to be a malaka, just be assertive. I'm going to talk to the guitarist and make sure he won't pull any ****, then my drummer so no one will flip flop then talk at our next practice. The drummer is just talking about straight up kicking the bassist out Solo acoustic shows are looking better and better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namvet Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Any endeavor requires direction and someone to ensure the direction is maintained and goals are achieved. Therefore, someone in a leadership role is a must if success is to be obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Someone will need to step up and take leadership, remember this quote well we used it in our school leadership classes. "Lead, Follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY!" Now this doesnt mean that you have to turn it into a dictatorship, decisions can be made as a group and put to a vote, its always good to let everyone speak there voice even if you take it into consideration or not, just allowing them to speak will make them feel like they are included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Ever heard the expression, "rock and roll is not a democracy"? I think, for the most part, the expression is not to mean that one guy is more important than the other, but rather more of an expression of how inner workings work in reality. Sometimes, when EVERYONE has to get a say in EVERYTHING it only serves to comprimise the origional effort. An example would be bringing an origional tune to the table, if everyone has to put a peice into it, and everyone changes it to the point that THEY like it, you can end up with less than if everyone rallied around the orogional idea of the man who brought it. And, I think it is an expression that is kind of a light hearted joke to mean that sometimes the best contribution a guy can make is to jump on board with the ideas of others and back them up rather than trying to get thier own across. The dynamics of any group of guys can be different, and can even be different with the same group of guys from day to day. It kind of sounds like your other guitarist might be frustrated with the contributions of your bass player, that perhaps he is making it harder instead of easier with having his say. But at the same time, maybe he has a certain sense of style and taste that makes his contribution and say so worth having. If perhaps he has a vision of something more metal or hardcore and you are more of the classic rock deal, then this is a perfect example of where comprimise and vision is something for all of you to consider. Perhaps the bass player needs to realise that trying to make a band a certified act that pleases the metel crowd holds you back, or maybe you need to include HIS vision to keep you guys in check and appeal to a wider audience. A good leader is a servant to those he leads. A good leader thinks about the well being of those he is serving before himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 The drummer seems to be making a power play, or he's just being childish. If you started the group, set up the gigs, write most of the songs, then you are the leader. The leader decides how he leads. Gather input from the group, then you make a decision. Every once in a while toss him a bone. If he wants to play "Wipe-Out" let him. Sometimes, when making a decision, to take personalities and ownership of the idea out of one person's hand and placing it in the hands of the group, a brain storming session works. Everyone toss out ideas, write them on a black board, white board or large sheet of paper on the wall. At some point the person who offered a particular idea is lost in the fray. Then take a vote on the ideas, cross off the less desirables and vote on what's left. These brain storms should be just that. Rapid fire, no holds barred, no matter how goofy. Nobody gets to make a comment, laugh or go "eeewwwwww," . No at this point. Throw it all against the wall and see what sticks. Once the idea throwing session has ground to a halt, then start the triage. Something as important as a name should not be forced by personalities or caucusing. Draw a line in the sand on this one. I suspect we will be hearing a lot more about your "Drummer Blues" this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 The drummer seems to be making a power play, or he's just being childish. If you started the group, set up the gigs, write most of the songs, then you are the leader. The leader decides how he leads. Gather input from the group, then you make a decision. Every once in a while toss him a bone. If he wants to play "Wipe-Out" let him. Sometimes, when making a decision, to take personalities and ownership of the idea out of one person's hand and placing it in the hands of the group, a brain storming session works. Everyone toss out ideas, write them on a black board, white board or large sheet of paper on the wall. At some point the person who offered a particular idea is lost in the fray. Then take a vote on the ideas, cross off the less desirables and vote on what's left. These brain storms should be just that. Rapid fire, no holds barred, no matter how goofy. Nobody gets to make a comment, laugh or go "eeewwwwww," . No at this point. Throw it all against the wall and see what sticks. Once the idea throwing session has ground to a halt, then start the triage. Something as important as a name should not be forced by personalities or caucusing. Draw a line in the sand on this one. I suspect we will be hearing a lot more about your "Drummer Blues" this summer. bassist blues everyone else is talking about kicking him out. I can probably find another bassist in a week... solo acoustic stuff is looking better and better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I'm going to talk to the guitarist and make sure he won't pull any ****, then my drummer so no one will flip flop then talk at our next practice. The drummer is just talking about straight up kicking the bassist out Solo acoustic shows are looking better and better... I generally think that sometimes, private conversations are a recipee for disaster. Personal relationships between 2 poeple are good, but when one guy wants to talk to you about another guy and keeps doing it, things usually don't end well as a result. For me, if I ain't willing to say it to everyone or to the guy I am talking about, I don't say it. Just as an opinion, I would not go spilling secrets or things said in confidence that one guy said about another. But, I would definitely not incourage it or invite it, and tell someone to save it until the next meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Aw man, my old band went through 7 bassists in 7 years. 3 Drummers too. Me and the lead guitarist/singer were co-leaders as we wrote 99% of the songs. It worked for us...we finally got a killer lineup and had it steady for 2.5 years...then i moved away and we broke up. *sniff* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 People suck, bands are made of people. My experience has been that SOMEbody has to lead, take charge when needed, make a decision when it looks like nobody else will. I've been in full democracy bands that failed miserably, and iron fist ruled bands that failed miserably. Neither way guarantees how well you kids will do, just how awful things will be along the way. Good luck with it. Yer prolly in the first of many bands, enjoy yourselves and try to be in by 11. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 At minimum I think a band of more than 2 folks <grin> needs someone to take charge at least of "coordinating" stuff. Coordinating practice, getting equipment and people where needed and on time and ready to gig is so basic that often it gets ignored. But overall I think having good chemistry among the band members is likely what makes things work or not work. That's regardless of age, style of music, music talent and skill, or how folks figure they'll be gigging. We'll all work harder to make things work with people we enjoy working with, and when we're having fun with our music and bandmates, we're gonna naturally sound better - the whole is better than the parts. Also, each person will offer music and other skills, strengths and weaknesses and it'll be accepted by the others, one way or another, without hard feelings. I remember in college there was something of a, "if we're a successful band, we've all gotta be super buddies and hang together all the time." I don't think that's true at all, and in fact may be something mitigating against long-term success as a group, and I don't think it's a matter of necessity for good working chemistry in a band of any sort. There's a lot of good material in this thread, IMHO. Each of us has a somewhat different "take," but in ways I think those of us in and out of bands has had a somewhat similar overall experience. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsFan Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Don Henley said that bands function best as benevolent dictatorships. Since he was a member of arguably the most successful American band ever (with he and Glenn Frey being said co-dictators), I think he would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 If the band is serious there should be only two leaders One leader for the musical and conceptial direction: Another leader that mediates the management side... Such as gigs, talking to the band manager and record execs outside of group circle. Taking care of the music library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paging Page Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I haven't been in a band before, but I'm looking. Still -- a friend of mine once compared being in a band to being in a "dysfunctional group marriage." ROFL!! Sounds TRUE............ hahaha!! Best wishes -------- How about something simple for that band, like "Fang?" One syllable, sounds tough, easy to remember and SPELL? Grin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Bands need a creative influence and a mommy. Choose which one you want to be, then be it. I've been both in a band before, and it's like herding cats. I ended up letting the lead player take over creative influence and we floundered with no real direction. Bubblegum Metal anyone? Anyone? No...? Oh, and Synister Gates says every band needs at least one person who knows music theory..... (he says, unfortunately, in A7X, it's him.... ) Tell the bass player you'd keep him, but you need someone who knows music theory :D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Bands need a creative influence and a mommy. Choose which one you want to be, then be it. I've been both in a band before, and it's like herding cats. I ended up letting the lead player take over creative influence and we floundered with no real direction. Bubblegum Metal anyone? Anyone? No...? Oh, and Synister Gates says every band needs at least one person who knows music theory..... (he says, unfortunately, in A7X, it's him.... ) Tell the bass player you'd keep him, but you need someone who knows music theory :D! That's the thing. I'm the one writing the songs. I'm the one writing the lyrics I'm the one keeping track of everything I'm the one going out there and talking to people about getting shows. And it's pissing me the **** off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 My advice is......get a good manager....let him sort it out and you guys just worry about the music....let the manager book gigs....who ever writes the music should have creative license and have the say one the songs you write...the other side of that is if the music stinks you have to man up......and copy write you're material.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If it's your music and if you set it up then your the leader if he doesn't like it tell him to walk. If you joined them and don't agree with the direction, then you need to walk. I won't be in a band unless I'm the leader or co-leader at least it's not that I'm overly arrogant (really I promise) I just know myself, I don't take orders well especially on my art or in my music. Ive kicked people out and Ive walked away the one thing, Ive never done is leave a band in a lurch though if you have a gig or series of gigs finish them or let them replace you if you want to walk before they lose gigs. I'm never a jerk but I play music in a band for enjoyment and extra money. The reverse is true if I'm playing as a studio musician or doing fill in for somebody else. If I playing somebody else's music I play it there way if have an idea I'll tell them if they take it great if they don't fine. Ive played music in studio that I don't even like and that's no problem for me I still do my best get my paycheck and I'm gone. Also never take crap from bass players or drummers there critical but unless there writing also there rhythm and lots of people can play rhythm. a good bass player can make or break a group but there's a lot of good bass player out there. Buy yourself a good baritone guitar you can drop tune if you don't play bass that way you can fake it if you ever lose a bass player for a gig. I know performing is fun and rewarding but learn to play all the key instruments then you can record your own music and supplement your band as needed the best thing I ever did was learn to play, bass, drums, piano as well as guitar and mandolin. I can always get a gig if I want one or I can work in the studio all by myself and honestly they both can equally rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The get a manager is good advice if your making money but a bad manager is worse than nothing and good managers well there $$$ the good managers out there are just that managers they'll help you make money but honestly in many cases i swear they also must eat there own young with most managers your a business not a artist and it's all about the money which is fine just make sure your ready for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The get a manager is good advice if your making money but a bad manager is worse than nothing and good managers well there $$$ the good managers out there are just that managers they'll help you make money but honestly in many cases i swear they also must eat there own young with most managers your a business not a artist and it's all about the money which is fine just make sure your ready for that. True dat!!!! Look around the area for bands that are making money and gigging, ask about their manager, and plan on joining the musicians union if you want to play good gigs..the audition part is critical...a good manager will demand a audition and will have a real office and real business cards and will have referrals...Ask around.... My other advice is to record every rehearsal...don't just "jam"...arrange each piece....time them, have real structure....and if you plan to make money remember the main reason clubs and bars hire you is to make people dance so they will get thirsty and buy drinks...they really don't care about drum solos...save them for the last set.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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