heymisterk Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hey All, So, I have found myself in the market for a new acoustic. Currently, I play a great Alvarez-Yairi "European Jumbo" which has served me well. But I want to upgrade for live performances. Certainly I plan to play a bunch of different styles, but I'd like your advice on what body style acoustic is best suited to handling the most styles of music. Mostly I play folk, country pop, and chick rock: Brandi Carlise, Indigo Girls, Simon and Garfunkel. My playing is pretty well divided between flat-picking, finger-picking, and a hybrid of the two. My question is, What guitar can do it all the best? I certainly know that, say, an 000-style body is best for fingerpicking and a dreadnought is best for strumming. But what style do you find best fits the most needs? I would be interested in specific model recommendations too! Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Well thats an easy question to answer, a slope shouldered J-45 of course ! Its the workhorse for a reason, very versatile ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Well thats an easy question to answer, a slope shouldered J-45 of course ! Its the workhorse for a reason, very versatile ! Agree 100%. I have a 000-28 EC for fingerpickin' and an old J-45 for flat pickin', but if you have to limit yourself to one--and few on this forum would do that--the slope J style is hard to beat. To my ear, it has a much less boomy bass than a square dread, and depending on the individual instrument, a nice balance overall with bright (but not as bright as a 000) trebles. Mind you, it's possible to tweak all these things to some extent with string, pin, nut, and saddle changes. Maybe not the booming bass, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 When it comes to versatility it is hard to beat an OM guitar. An OM can handle both strumming and fingerpicking equally well. While the OM will not have the low end respose of a dread or jumbo they are usually well balanced with a sound that is warm and very well defined. Huss and Dalton and Santa Cruz make a dandy OM style guitar. But there are tons of them out there, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 When it comes to versatility it is hard to beat an OM guitar. An OM can handle both strumming and fingerpicking equally well. While the OM will not have the low end respose of a dread or jumbo they are usually well balanced with a sound that is warm and very well defined. Huss and Dalton and Santa Cruz make a dandy OM style guitar. But there are tons of them out there, That is actually the way I was leaning. A couple of years ago, I played the Larrivee OM-50 which I liked quite a bit: It had a very bright treble response but also a reasonably good bass response. Larrivee also seemed to be a relatively good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 . Hoping not to get flamed by all the slope-dread fans here - I throw another vote to the OM. Can't wait to see where this thread goes. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 . Hoping not to get flamed by all the slope-dread fans here - I throw another vote to the OM. OK, so Martin lists all their OM models as having a "000-size" body. So, what are the differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 While I'd go with a hog slope myself, I will also mention in passing the Larrivee L body. Been pickin' some on one of these recently and am quite surprised. Ce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayfingers Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 It's a bit of a curve ball, but the Nick Lucas is a pretty good all rounder - the deep body gives it some kick with the pick. OM is a 000 with a dreadnaught style longer scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devellis Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 It's a bit of a curve ball, but the Nick Lucas is a pretty good all rounder - the deep body gives it some kick with the pick. OM is a 000 with a dreadnaught style longer scale. Scale can differ between OM and 000 guitars. But I think the more common difference is that OMs have 14 frets clear of the body while 000s usually have 12 (irrespective of scale length). Of course there are loads of exceptions. But the raison d'etre for the OM as to allow access to higher frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 But the raison d'etre for the OM as to allow access to higher frets. I guess you're talking about cutaway OM's here, since there's not a hell of a lot of difference accessing the upper frets on my J-45 (14 frets clear) and my 000-28 EC (14 frets clear). OK, let's open up this can of worms a bit here. I'll use current Martins as a reference, since they make a variety of OM's and 000's, and I happen to own one. All of the OM's, and 90% of the 000's, have 14 frets clear. In fact, the 12-fret 000's are all pre-war designs, to the best of my knowledge. Martin says the OM's and the 000's share the same body. The 000's have a 24.9" scale, and the OM's a 25.4" scale. Granted, the slightly longer scale will probably result in a slightly different tonal quality for the same pitch, despite the same size and shape box. But I would challenge most of us to tell the difference in a blind test. What's the real difference between an OM and a 000? Personal preference. Like most of our guitar prejudices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryp58 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 How 'bout a fastball?!!! I say an SJ-200! It can handle anything!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 When it comes to versatility it is hard to beat an OM guitar. An OM can handle both strumming and fingerpicking equally well. While the OM will not have the low end respose of a dread or jumbo they are usually well balanced with a sound that is warm and very well defined. Huss and Dalton and Santa Cruz make a dandy OM style guitar. But there are tons of them out there, +1 on the OM size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 OK, so Martin lists all their OM models as having a "000-size" body. So, what are the differences? Scale length. OMs = 25.5, 000= 24.75. Otherwise much the same. Btw, you can get a fair ammount of volume and punch out of an om/ooo. But because of the depth/top ratio, they push the sound straight out, so you dont get the ambient effect you do with a big body. Not a big deal for pickers, but maybe less comfortable for singers (less of a "pad"). Like the 000 but want more low end? Move up to a "M/0000 (16" jumbo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 the more common difference is that OMs have 14 frets clear of the body while 000s usually have 12 (irrespective of scale length). Quick review of Martin terminology. Up to 1929, all their gittys were 12-frets/body. In '29, the intro'd the OM (14 frets clear, 25.5 scale). Mid 30s, they changed the scale of the OM to 24.75 (the tops couldnt take the tension of med-heavy strings at 25.5), dropped the 12-frets and changed the name of the 14 fret OM to 000. That's the model Clapper's played on unplugged and they based the EC model on. Meanwhile, CFM also reissued the OM inn its original specs and runs of 12-fret 000s, using the "vs"moniker (00028vs 00018vs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I found an incredible versatile guitar in my Hummingbird Artist (which has got very little to do with the "real" HB). It has a dreadnought shape but with a depth which seems to be between dread and 000. Short scale. Very, very comfortable. Great for strumming and very good for fingerstyle. I made a few changes but the only one which could be interesting if you're playing live, is that I had a luthier install an LR Baggs M1 passive pickup, which I love. To my ears this is an important improvement over the stock piezo (which is a Baggs Element, by the way). I also own a Martin 000-18GE, which is truly a fantastic guitar. But when I play with my friends, especially if we play "electrified", the HB Artist is the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Martin says the OM's and the 000's share the same body. The 000's have a 24.9" scale, and the OM's a 25.4" scale. Granted, the slightly longer scale will probably result in a slightly different tonal quality for the same pitch, despite the same size and shape box. But I would challenge most of us to tell the difference in a blind test. What's the real difference between an OM and a 000? Personal preference. Like most of our guitar prejudices. I may be wrong but I belive the Martin OM has a slightly larger upper bout than the 000. But it is mainly about difference in feel. The longer scale OMs with more string tension tend to sound a bit snappier and have a bit more presence. I know lots of folks who when it comes to fingerpicking have no preference between the OM and 000 but do prefer the OMs for flatpicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I may be wrong but I belive the Martin OM has a slightly larger upper bout than the 000. But it is mainly about difference in feel. The longer scale OMs with more string tension tend to sound a bit snappier and have a bit more presence. I know lots of folks who when it comes to fingerpicking have no preference between the OM and 000 but do prefer the OMs for flatpicking. I don't have an OM around for comparison, but my 000-28 EC has a 15 3/16" lower bout, and 11 3/8" upper. I think the 000 is a great size and shape in general. I do have a few complaints about physically playing my 000-28 compared to my J-45. I play a lot of barre slides (fingers only, mind you), and find this a lot easier to do on my J-45, which was re-fretted by Gibson in 1968 with wider, flatter frets than the "traditional" skinny frets like those on my 000-28. I just find it easier to slide my fingers over the "newer" (only 43 years old) Gibson semi-jumbo frets. The ones on my J-45 now are more similar to those on my ES 335's. Other people may not have this problem, but the 000 sits in a funny place the way I play, which is seated with the waist of the guitar on my right knee. With the proportions and shorter body length of the 000, my natural hand and pick position is at the neck end of the soundhole. With the J-45, it is at the bridge end of the soundhole, which gives me the "punch" from the bridge position that I really like on the J-45. I have to consciously modify my playing position/style with the 000 body shape if I want a similar type of sound. Don't get me wrong: I do like the 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 So what is it about those slopes and OM/000s? And small jumbos. Id venture its the right mix of balance and projection and response. Not too small, for ample bass and volume but not so big, for balance, clarity (not too much bass) and response. About response, you want to be able to get a tone without having to dig in, especially for fingerstyle. Bigger the top area=the more energy it takes to get it moving. That's why a lot of players favor med. strings on Dreads and Jumbos. And picks. A slope or a 000, you can get moving with bare fingers. J200? better response with picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 So what is it about those slopes and OM/000s? And small jumbos. Id venture its the right mix of balance and projection and response. Not too small, for ample bass and volume but not so big, for balance, clarity (not too much bass) and response. Good analysis. I have no experience with super jumbos, but both the 000 and slopes just FEEL right. And I am learning to get a more punchy sound out of them without a pick, although flat pickin' is just plain fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sternfan Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 First of all, here's a great linkto perhaps one of the most comprehensive, yet concise, breakdowns of the Martin 000 vs OM. As for which would be best Jack of all trades, I'd lean toward either a J 45, J 185, a custom Gruhn-designed Martin 0000 28H (yes, quadruple 0, same as the M-sized Martins), or a Santa Cruz H-13 (SC's take on the Nick Lucas). All of these guitars feature excellent volume, tonal balance, and true versatility. Most importantly, play a bunch of guitars! The hunt in this case should be just as much fun as the catch! Good luck and let us know what you pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 First of all, here's a great linkto perhaps one of the most comprehensive, yet concise, breakdowns of the Martin 000 vs OM. That's a good link, but it also demonstrates there are almost more exceptions than rules, as is almost always the case with guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm in the slope shoulder contingent. I'm also in the "Alvarez-Yari are pretty frikkin nice, too" contingent. I've played a number of them and they were excellent! Different beast than Alvarez. IMO, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm in the slope shoulder contingent. I'm also in the "Alvarez-Yari are pretty frikkin nice, too" contingent. I've played a number of them and they were excellent! Different beast than Alvarez. IMO, of course! My A-Y is the best quality guitar I have ever owned, hands down. It was built in 1991, and it must have been a very good year. I don't humidify it and play the hell out of it, and it just sounds better and better the more I play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 The Yari's I've played were much older than '91 and they were top-shelf! If the "newer" ones are that good, it be GOOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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