onewilyfool Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I am down to one non-american made guitar, and would like to take this moment to encourage all of you to buy AMERICAN this holiday season. I'm not trying to be political here or bash any other countries....but espeially for the american music manufactures....let's support them if we can..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Woid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretplay Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Whats the one none USA WOf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 . Well alright. I've got two - an Epi and a Yamaha. . B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'm down to two: a Spanish classical, and a Mexican Martin backpacker. Remember, guys, that a significant percentage of our forum members are NOT US-based, and may not share these sentiments in exactly the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Remember, guys, that a significant percentage of our forum members are NOT US-based, and may not share these sentiments in exactly the same way. Don't worry, we can take it (I hope). Apropos - Take a look at the recent Joni thread Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think you have to define "American Company" for me OWF. What do you think that means? Gibson Corp has 19 brands that I can count. Just Epiphone and Baldwin alone have most of their production in China. Now the "Gibson" brand is US made but there are other "American" companies that have a US brand that is in fact manufactured in other countries. Fender makes Mexican Strats. There are companies that came from Canada and produce over 75% of their product in California (Larrviee makes all lines but the 03 line in Oxnard Calif. The 03 models are made in Vancouver BC). The only guitar company I know of that isn't boutique that only makes American made guitars is Rickenbacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think you have to define "American Company" for me OWF. ...... I just went with the topic - "non-american made guitar" - As I mentioned, I've got two that weren't made in the States. Of course, there's no telling where the parts came from. So maybe we should use the word "assembled" rather than "made". . B) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 When I say american made......I guess I mean "Made in America"....not made by a company outside of America owned by an American company.....MADE IN AMERICA...made by American hands....there IS a difference.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think you have to define "American Company" for me OWF. What do you think that means? Gibson Corp has 19 brands that I can count. Just Epiphone and Baldwin alone have most of their production in China. Now the "Gibson" brand is US made but there are other "American" companies that have a US brand that is in fact manufactured in other countries. Fender makes Mexican Strats. There are companies that came from Canada and produce over 75% of their product in California (Larrviee makes all lines but the 03 line in Oxnard Calif. The 03 models are made in Vancouver BC). The only guitar company I know of that isn't boutique that only makes American made guitars is Rickenbacker. I am a proud American, but I personally could never come to terms with Larrivee moving out of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 When I say american made......I guess I mean "Made in America"....not made by a company outside of America owned by an American company.....MADE IN AMERICA...made by American hands....there IS a difference.... You tell em. When my hands make something and I get paid, the best I can do is pay my money to someone or something that deserves it as much as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I'm down to two: a Spanish classical, and a Mexican Martin backpacker. Remember, guys, that a significant percentage of our forum members are NOT US-based, and may not share these sentiments in exactly the same way. I appreciate what you are saying and thanks for considering us outside the States Personally, I have bought (and will buy) what sounds and feels the best without prejudice. My small arsenal has guitars from England, Spain, Japan, Mexico, China, Indonesia and America. However, In the current predicament, I can see why now, more than ever before; many who are citizens from the USA would want to buy American etc made models etc - i.e good for the economy etc... From a non musical and outisder point of view, I like buying made in America because the countries gene pool is so mixed, it is like I am buying from a mixture of countries anyway - I kind of like the thought of that Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Exploitation is bad for the economy of ANY country. I have no issue with made in China or Chinese people (the ones I have met have been great people). What I have issue with is eliminating a workforce that is made of fellow humans who all have families and such just like everyone else, and taking advantage of poor conditions where a wage that would get them the same things does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 For the record, I am one of the pluses from the original post but have need to ask something. Stein, is your distaste towards China though because of their impending World power status and wanting to remain I suppose the world's top dog; or is it nothing of the kind and an outrage of human cruelty. If the later, did you or would you boycott USA produce if the country acted in your view immorally. The above type scenarios open up such a can of worms that I think if I judged everything on other countries behaviour (including my own!) I wouldn't own anything! LOL Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 For the record, I am one of the pluses from the original post but have need to ask something. Stein, is your distaste towards China though because of their impending World power status and wanting to remain I suppose the world's top dog; or is it nothing of the kind and an outrage of human cruelty. If the later, did you or would you boycott USA produce if the country acted in your view immorally. The above type scenarios open up such a can of worms that I think if I judged everything on other countries behaviour (including my own!) I wouldn't own anything! LOL Matt Thanks for the pluses.. RE: CHINA. I don't have issue with China or distaste for China in any way. My problem with China manufacturing is actually with American companies who choose to import from China. In MANY cases, the Chinese goods we get are no cheaper to the consumer here than goods made domestically. What happens is they get bids from Chinese companies to make things on the cheap, then the American manufacturing goes out of business and the tooling gets sold to China, then the price goes back up. For many things, just the cost of shipping raw materials to China and shipping goods back is as much as having things made here. But..the other reason (the core of the problem, if you will) is that the labor cost in a lot of countries is so cheap, and pays the worker so little, the lust to get something made for nothing outweighs the desire and pleasure of keeping workers who work for wages that can support a good standard of living. I like the idea of helping others out, and helping those in other countries. But paying a worker a wage for a days worth of work that gets them a few meals instead of paying another enough to buy a house, a car, and clothes for the kids is not kindness. Why not just GIVE the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks for the pluses.. RE: CHINA. I don't have issue with China or distaste for China in any way. My problem with China manufacturing is actually with American companies who choose to import from China. In MANY cases, the Chinese goods we get are no cheaper to the consumer here than goods made domestically. What happens is they get bids from Chinese companies to make things on the cheap, then the American manufacturing goes out of business and the tooling gets sold to China, then the price goes back up. For many things, just the cost of shipping raw materials to China and shipping goods back is as much as having things made here. But..the other reason (the core of the problem, if you will) is that the labor cost in a lot of countries is so cheap, and pays the worker so little, the lust to get something made for nothing outweighs the desire and pleasure of keeping workers who work for wages that can support a good standard of living. I like the idea of helping others out, and helping those in other countries. But paying a worker a wage for a days worth of work that gets them a few meals instead of paying another enough to buy a house, a car, and clothes for the kids is not kindness. Why not just GIVE the money? Thanks Stein I knew you'd have an interesting view. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 As a non-American, all I can say is that while wanting to and subsequently choosing to change your consumer habits to support your own economy is admirable, it is a short-sighted, short term solution economically. If non-Americans such as myself started to think along the same lines there would be considerably sharp declines in the sale of US goods. This in-stream of business and the 'new' money it brings is very much required by the American economy at the minute. For example: Disclaimer, I have to use retail prices to demonstrate as I have no idea what the unit cost is from the manufacturer. In the last year, I've spend the equivalent of nearly $13-14k on US made guitars, 3 Gibson's. I'm only one customer and certainly not in the top rankings of us non-US based gassers out here. Coupled with other items I have imported from the US that are not guitar related I've probably spent somewhere in the region of $18-20k on US goods. Now imagine me and many many thousands like me went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks Stein I knew you'd have an interesting view. Matt Interesting? Maybe we have much more to learn from each other (British/American). The economy is bad for everyone in the Anglo world I think, but I wonder if we see the same things. Here, if I go shopping, I go to the tool store and buy a hammer, or a ladder, then go to another store and buy some light bulbs, or a lamp, etc., it is VERY hard to find ANYTHING that is made here anymore, and most of it is from China. Even stuff that is from American companies with American labels, and items that might have been made here as recently as 5 years ago. A lot of what you might hear about the pride of "made in USA" from an American might not be iconic things like Gibson or Cadillac, but rather everyday items from American companies. A lot of things we get from China are just pure crap-not because China can't or won't build anything good, but because the importers ask for cheap stuff. If it were of higher quality, it might be too expensive for them to build AND get it over here. And, we also tend to VALUE doing quality work. So if someone complains of poor quality, it is embarrassing (just as I expect it would be in many places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I am British and have owned exclusively USA made instruments for almost 25 years. Britain have got some very talented luthiers - Lowden, Eggle, Sobel, Fylde, Atkin, LeVoi and many more. However, I have never owned any of the above. I can't break away from Gibson or Martin!! I know, thats pathetic! That said, Martins from the standard series down are not appealing to me - too many changes from tradition. With guitars, as with many other things its not straight forward to say buy USA or UK or German, but rather the item must have appeal and sound right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Actually I'm Canadian, but I live in the US and want to support american companies while I live here...like someone said, my hands make money here, so I'll pass it on to others who live and work here.....I mean really, try and find ANYTHING that is made in America in Wallmart!!!???....I can't believe we've given it all away....Christmas shopping at wallmart won't help the American economy but it WILL help the Chinese economy, with their fixed currency, and unfair trade practices.........just thinki about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbyguy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Why would one want to eliminate non-American Guitars? I just picked up three non-American Guitars. I already own 8 American made guitars. Is there is difference in sound and quality? Why do some guitar makers (TML, SAGA, Silver Creek, etc.) go to China or Korea to have their guitars manufactured? I think it is a simple question of economics in the cost difference. An average all solid wood acoustic guitar in America fetches around $2000 as a starting price and it's more common to see American Luthiers charging as much as $5-10K for their guitars. I'm not here to debate whether those guitars are worth several thousand $, however if you could buy an all solid guitar under $1K, and even get prewar spec Martin/Gibson replicas that would astound you in sound, you're going to buy what you can afford. How about build and sound quality? I recently bought a Recording King (TML) ROS-647. This is a prewar replica of a Martin 000-42v. Some own both guitars and can't believe their ears and the feel is so close. Make no mistake it is not a Martin, but comes close to look, feel, and sound. Mfg list for the ROS-647 is $1400 and $1050 street. Another guitar company is Crafter in Korea. They don't copy the American guitars , but have their own R&D Dept, and make their own original guitars. They're not as prolific in the US, but very common through the UK, Europe, and East Asia. I've been able to pick up a couple of them and quite frankly they play like a dream, their necks feel great, and the sound is very loud. I have two 000 sized Crafters and I'm blown away by their volume for not being dreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Non-political reality - please don't get upset - that horse bolted years ago. Here is short video of one of the many, many chinese guitar factories: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6214588219892064945&q=guitar&pl=true# BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Non-political reality - please don't get upset - that horse bolted years ago. Here is short video of one of the many, many chinese guitar factories: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6214588219892064945&q=guitar&pl=true# BluesKing777. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Who said get rid of non-american guitars?????????? I just encouraging (note: encouraging NOT demanding, how do these threads get so sidetracked???) americans to buy american....thats all....China has a billion people, let THEM buy the chinese made guitars!!! The asian guitars ARE catching up, but not yet....let's support our american made guitars which are still the best in the world, in my opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Who said get rid of non-american guitars?????????? I just encouraging (note: encouraging NOT demanding, how do these threads get so sidetracked???) americans to buy american....thats all....China has a billion people, let THEM buy the chinese made guitars!!! The asian guitars ARE catching up, but not yet....let's support our american made guitars which are still the best in the world, in my opinion.... +1 I agree it is great to support your own countries guitar making where possible. Cheers to that Wily I support your pride of your country America and Japan make the best big brand guitars in the world IMO; when it comes to luthiers who make nylon and steel guitars I love British, Spanish and German made guitars... We are very fortunate as consumers to have a choice in these thing. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.