Where Is Money Better Off ???

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Seeing the times we are all facing now .

I'd like to ask all of the older and wiser folks where money should be better off .

banks , guitars or other investments ? .

 

My parents thought I was crazy when I purchased my Sj 200 TV for $4800

 

is the vintage (acoustic and electric) guitar market a safe bet ?

and if so what should I be looking out for ???.

I'm always checking guitar sites online just to see vintage stuff .

Norm's Rare Guitars has a 00 42 Martin from 1928 .

 

and a pair of 1955 gibson Sj 200's (one sunburst and one natural) .

 

 

Is this the right stuff to be looking for in the acoustic market ??

 

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

JC

[jannusguy2]

I did a little valuation on my herd las week for insurance purposes. I was a little surprised to see the number on the page when said and done. Never the less, as I've been accumulating over the last 4 years or so, I have found that most of what has come and gone through my hands has held its value. Some I have sold for a profit and some I have lost a bit on. All in all, I don't have any sense that my guitars(especially the newer ones) will appreciate in value greatly in the short term but I'm much more inclined to sink my dollars into these functioning works of art as opposed to having the money sit in a CD earning a measly .02% interest.

[Buc McMaster]

I'm no investment counselor but I don't think guitars, vintage or otherwise, are a reliable investment opportunity. The guitar market is quite fickle, much moreso than other financial/commodity markets. Values are driven by what collectors, those with the money in this market, see as something to possess. Back in the late-80s through the mid-90s vintage American guitar values skyrocketed, driven by the Japanese desire to own nearly anything that they considered Americana. Heck, old Levi 501 jeans were a very hot ticket at the same time, selling for hundreds of dollars! Who would have thought that?! Guitars are the same......who knows how they will be valued in another 20-30 years? Pretty unpredicatable market to be speculating in, driven by the whims of a very few that have the funds to make things move and change. The declining availablility of some construction materials will play on values in the future, but you'll still be dealing with a very small group that have the where-with-all to pay inflated prices for vintage instruments.......the average player may want an old vintage Gibson, but may not have the funds to acquire one.

 

Bottom line: the vintage guitar collector is a very, very small target to hit with investment dollars.

[ParlourMan]

Without a crystal ball, betting on new guitar purchases being a good investment is a fools game JC. Having a couple of good guitars you enjoy playing which may/may not return some good amounts far far down the road is one thing, to bet on it with new purchases is quite another.

 

I could post a huge response to this, but it's all about appreciating assets and depreciating assets... even the vintage market is stagnating at inflationary levels and has dipped a bit of its peak about 3 years ago. Modern stuff is produced in higher numbers so is unlikely to reach those heady heights we see for the old stuff. You never know though.... there's always arguments for and against.

 

If it were me I'd respect the golden rule: Always remember in a poor economy liquidity is king...

[JuanCarlosVejar]

thanks guys .

Well it's not only about me per say

I don't have alot of money for a 1959 Les Paul Standard or a Prewar D 45 or the original Rosewood J 200's.

I am buying guitars now for my own enjoyment. but I mean why not buy a guitar or two that might become valuable and is priced reasonable and put in under a bed for 25 years and see what happens ? .

 

I've purchased 2 guitars this year a Rosewood SJ 200 replica and an Original Jumbo .

and I am pondering the purchase of a Martin Johnny Cash D 35 . The Rosewood gibson might be kept for collectability but the other two are for playing and enjoying.

 

 

 

 

JC

[Slim Chance]

The only ones really making any money on vintage guitars these days are experienced vintage guitar retail dealers and auction houses.

 

For the average player and/or collector, even those who have diligently researched vintage guitars and value trends ... it's just too risky buying vintage guitars with investment potential as the goal. More misses than hits. Questions about originality. Bungled repair jobs. Getting a "straight" answer is often impossible. It's a mine field where the buyer is greatly at risk.

 

There are exceptions of course, vintage guitars that typically do hold their value regardless of the market conditions ... clean and original vintage guitars like a 1930 Martin OM-28, 1935 Gibson Advanced Jumbo, 1959 Gibson Les Paul, or Martin 1936 D-18 to name a few. These types of guitars are at or near the top of the desirability list ... and the entry price is very high ... but, value holding is very good also.

 

You might consider looking at early PRS guitars ... i.e. pre-production models and even first year 1985 models ... they've been increasing in value.

[ParlourMan]

JC, I'll save you all the 'I work in finance' stuff and any fancy breakdown of it all, it would be long and very grey... All I can say is: don't make a bet you can't afford to lose on.....

 

Outside of that, live life trying to please every whim, mate... good luck with the choices.

[jdd707]

Great information above. But why not do both/all. Diversity is the key in life and in investing. So go ahead and buy a nice vintage or unusual or rare guitar. Love it and care for it and see what happens. But don't forget to put the next bonus check or income tax refund into something entirely different. Take it from an old retired guy, start now to build that nest egg. You'lll need it sooner thant you think!

[TommyK]

If you bought the guitar to play and you could afford it, it was money well spent. Once you are and adult, you should never discuss finances outside your immediate family, i.e. you and your spouse. A. It's just not good form, B., it can breed judgement and jealousy, and 4. In some families, it will bring the family pan handlers out.

I know folks who cannot have a conversation without asking, "Well how much did that cost?". I just tell those nosy busybodies, "I don't recall, exactly ('cause I rarely commit the exact dollar and cent amount to memory), but I paid a fair price for it, so let's just leave it at that."

 

If you bought it as an investment to be squirreled away under the bed, I'd say it's a bad investment.

 

'collectibles' are in very volatile markets. They are dependent upon the economy, people's taste and whatever new bauble comes down the pike to take interest away from your collectible (Fads).

 

The next question is; do you still live with Mom and Dad? (here's that judgement thing). If you're over 18 and out of school, you probably should have invested in a deposit on your own place. Do you still owe your folks money you borrowed? (more judgement).

 

You would be best to put it into solid stocks and bonds, or in a FDIC insured bank, up to the maximum amount insurable by the FDIC.

 

You and I probably won't see a great appreciation in value of a pristine, unplayed instrument. Your grandkids might, but if you figure annual return on investment, I suspect even if it fetched 5 figures for your grandkids, the ROI would be miniscule. Not to mention the risk you take from fire, theft and damage by keeping it under the bed. Your grandkids would be better off finding your well played, road worn guitar that grand-daddy put his love sweat and tears into which probably wouldn't bring $500 on an estate sale.

 

In these times it's better to invest in food.

[ParlourMan]

You would be best to put it into solid stocks and bonds, or in a FDIC insured bank, up to the maximum amount insurable by the FDIC.

 

 

I only quoted a small part, but yes, what Tommy said!

 

 

 

You and I probably won't see a great appreciation in value of a pristine, unplayed instrument. Your grandkids might, but if you figure annual return on investment, I suspect even if it fetched 5 figures for your grandkids, the ROI would be miniscule. Not to mention the risk you take from fire, theft and damage by keeping it under the bed.

 

too true... as inheritance goes these are nice pieces to sell off and a nice cash boost for relatives etc... as an investor looking for a return for yourself given the length of the venture etc.... very poor investment!

 

The amounts, your location and taxation are all considerations, but there's a multitude of different routes to go that are all better investments than guitars mate... sorry to be a killjoy!

[zombywoof]

The only ones really making any money on vintage guitars these days are experienced vintage guitar retail dealers and auction houses.

 

And those of us who bought "used" guitars back in the 1960s.

 

I just do not see acoustics of more recent origin being a better investment than electrics. Maybe they just ain't got the "Mojo" - that thing that makes a Guild made in Hoboken in the late 1960s worth a couple of hundred more than the same exact guitar built in the easrly 1970s in Westerly.

 

I agree that early PRS guitars would seem to be a good investment. Tom Murphy aged Custom Shop Les Pauls are also going up up and up in value I would add the early Fender Custom Shop guitars - those made by J. Black or given a "relic" finish by Vince Cunetto to the list.

[jdd707]

Flash forward to the estate sale run by my daughter ..... I can hear her saying "Oh, I don't know?!!! How about $50 each for the dark ones and $75 for the blonde one"?

[Tafmutt]

Flash forward to the estate sale run by my daughter ..... I can hear her saying "Oh, I don't know?!!! How about $50 each for the dark ones and $75 for the blonde one"?

 

Another reason that we should all consider burying our collection along with us. "Yeah, Martha - just throw it in the hole after they lower the casket."

[jannusguy2]

Maybe if my guitars are dismantled they'll provide enough wood to construct a casket.

[Martin 1940D28]

by

[JuanCarlosVejar]

well thanks to all . It's not like I'm desperate to invest in a guitar for when I'm old but here I'll answer some question :

 

Tommy .I'm 23 and I got the guitars with my own money after many years of saving 8 or 9 years .

I've loved guitars for along time so from a very early age I started saving all I could .

 

And as far as putting a guitar under the bed goes it was just a saying . I'm not a collector of any sort and I don't think I want to be

but I think 5 guitars is a sufficient amount . I guess the best thing to do is invest in different stuff .

 

I play my Sj 200 TV every day for alot of time.

 

 

thanks to everyone .

[slimt]

I would put my money into Vintage Gibsons and martins... But I wouldnt buy from stores as they are already beyond peaked for some time.. I would be more inclined like still to this day.. buy from Mom and Dad or from a estate uncerculated items..and Give what they ask.. with in reason.. Banks Suck at the best of times. Interest rates are low..

[TommyK]

Yeah JCV, I wasn't sure of your 'life' situation.

 

As an adult, parents should not intervene in their children's financial affairs, unless...

 

A child is 3 months behind in rent, complaining about it, borrowing money from mom and dad, and you BUY A $4000 guitar!?!?!?! Then your folks have right to discuss your finances with you.

[j45nick]

Trying to second-guess the market for "collectibles" 20 years down the road is a fool's errand, unless you have a banana-powered DeLorean with the ability to go "back to the future".

 

That doesn't mean you ignore the price you pay, or give absolutely no consideration to long-term value. It's just that these are unknowns that no one can forecast.

 

Some guitars will always be valuable either due to scarcity or perceived tonal superiority. Pre-war D-28's, 1959 ES-335's, some LP and early Fender models, etc.

 

But those guitars are already priced well beyond what most of us are willing to play, and may be so expensive and valuable that you are reluctant to play them. At that point, what fun are they to own?

 

The key is not to be overly-concerned with long-term value, but to try not to over-pay on current purchases. If you are looking for the best value in "player" guitars, a well-cared-for "low mileage" late model is probably the best value of all. I've never bought a new guitar, but I have bought guitars that are one, two, or five years old that were in better condition than the average "new" guitar hanging on the wall at GC.

 

That's where the value in guitars may be today. For the future, who knows? When I bought my old J-45 in 1966, it was just a beat-up 18-year-old guitar, worth the $50 I paid for it. There are probably similar great buys out there today, but no one can accurately predict what they are.

 

Buy guitars to play and enjoy now, and maybe to pass down through your family if a guitar player emerges, as has happened in mine (my favorite nephew's son).

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Trying to second-guess the market for "collectibles" 20 years down the road is a fool's errand, unless you have a banana-powered DeLorean with the ability to go "back to the future".

 

That doesn't mean you ignore the price you pay, or give absolutely no consideration to long-term value. It's just that these are unknowns that no one can forecast.

 

Some guitars will always be valuable either due to scarcity or perceived tonal superiority. Pre-war D-28's, 1959 ES-335's, some LP and early Fender models, etc.

 

But those guitars are already priced well beyond what most of us are willing to play, and may be so expensive and valuable that you are reluctant to play them. At that point, what fun are they to own?

 

The key is not to be overly-concerned with long-term value, but to try not to over-pay on current purchases. If you are looking for the best value in "player" guitars, a well-cared-for "low mileage" late model is probably the best value of all. I've never bought a new guitar, but I have bought guitars that are one, two, or five years old that were in better condition than the average "new" guitar hanging on the wall at GC.

 

That's where the value in guitars may be today. For the future, who knows? When I bought my old J-45 in 1966, it was just a beat-up 18-year-old guitar, worth the $50 I paid for it. There are probably similar great buys out there today, but no one can accurately predict what they are.

 

Buy guitars to play and enjoy now, and maybe to pass down through your family if a guitar player emerges, as has happened in mine (my favorite nephew's son).

 

thanks Nick .

 

I really enjoy my SJ 200 TV and I hope one day it will be passed on to another lefty guitarist who will love it just as me .

I really came away with another view so thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

 

 

 

JC

[BluesKing777]

Where is money better off?

 

 

1. In your pillow! A bit smelly and uncomfortable depending how much you have.....

 

 

2. Forget cars - money pit unfortunately.

 

 

3. Forget banks - another money pit unfortunately.

 

 

4. In a hole in the yard and hope the relatives or the dog don't find it.....

 

 

So I guess that only leaves:

 

 

 

5. Guitars of all shapes and sizes and sounds!

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[gijs]

Guitars are very unpredictable. For example: the Les Paul was not really popular in the 80s, but once players such as Slash started playing them in the late 80s, the guitar's value got to extreme highs again.

Acoustics are a bit different I think beceause of the material used. Brazilian guitars are now expensive because they are not made anymore. The same will happen to Indian, making them expensive, and so on...

[tpbiii]

We have been acquiring old guitars and other instruments for 30+ years -- we now have more than 200.

 

We were not really investing, but we did feel comfortable in storing money in instruments because they did seem like a pretty good investments. Well they turned out to be a great investment -- and we can use them to make music.

 

That was the past. I can't predict the future.

 

Best,

 

-Tom

[merseybeat1963]

J