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'63 J-45 clean!

#21 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 01:15 PM

Nick- thanks for taking a closer look and writing that out. . . 'don't know if it was on this guitar or another recent thread, but you'd mentioned all of the wear (or lack thereof) being consistent across all of the components and on the guitar itself, which is always a good thing to keep an eye out for.

View PostBoyd, on 06 January 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

That takes a leap of faith, doesn't it? They also look too good to be true. ;)

Yes, indeed. But Buc's addition of "very good friend of the family" goes a long way to lessen doubts.

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#22 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:04 PM

Everything looks right to me, including the fat frets from the '60s (love 'em!), which you would not see on any recent repro version.

Also think the mahogany back is stunningly beautiful.

Overall, a gorgeous example!
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '07 CJ-165ec / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#23 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 02:23 PM

View Postj45nick, on 06 January 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

The ceramic of the adjustable saddle does not change color over time, in my experience.

Yes, even one that has decades of grime & grit can be cleaned to a shiny white in minutes with rubbing alcohol.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '07 CJ-165ec / '09 ES 339
'10 ES 330L / '11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#24 User is offline   QuestionMark 

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 04:17 PM

My 2006 Custom Shop J45 1964 Reissue has a Custom Shop Logo on the back of the fretboard neck that is nitro lacquered over. I believe most Custom Shop guitars have the same so they can’t be passed off as the original.

QM aka Jazzman Jeff
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#25 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:46 PM

 EuroAussie, on 06 January 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

'Chunky wide neck ' .. for 1963, I have my doubts

Nothing chunky about this neck - only compared to the squares.

Obviously in an amazing state.
I personally prefer the faded cherries, , , and the more the better.
That said, 45's from this period can be pure sonic gold, , , including the clay.

P.S. - This gem is probably a 64'er.
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#26 User is offline   rbpicker 

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 06:17 AM

Looks like the real deal to me. BTW, I bought one of these brand new In 1963. Get a little tear in my eye when I gaze at this one. I also, more recently, had a 62, which I prefer, and it was one of the faded ones. I named it “Old Whiskey”. Marvelous guitar. Sold it....dumb.
Roger
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#27 User is offline   Buc McMaster 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:14 PM

PRELIMINARY UPDATE:

Spoke with my friend on this J-45 and got some info.... It's a consigned piece, purchased new by a father for his daughter. As he told me, the daughter figured out that "the guitar isn't going to play itself" so dad put it away after a few weeks. This explains it's condition. It also has the 1.7** whatever neck width (not sure of the spec then) and is beefy front to back. Being on consignment, he doesn't have too much wiggle room on it. Still it is very tempting. Will go see it this Friday for a first hand inspection..........
J35 - J45 Vintage
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#28 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostBuc McMaster, on 08 January 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

PRELIMINARY UPDATE:

Spoke with my friend on this J-45 and got some info.... It's a consigned piece, purchased new by a father for his daughter. As he told me, the daughter figured out that "the guitar isn't going to play itself" so dad put it away after a few weeks. This explains it's condition. It also has the 1.7** whatever neck width (not sure of the spec then) and is beefy front to back. Being on consignment, he doesn't have too much wiggle room on it. Still it is very tempting. Will go see it this Friday for a first hand inspection..........



So, you gonna learn how to play right-handed, or are you gonna pull a Hendrix on us?

Nut should be 1 11/16" (1.6875) if it's the "wide" neck from this period. There were some necks that were 1 5/8" before they went to 1 9/16". We'll be interested in your report. That's one lucky guitar, at least from our perspective from 50+ years later. Even if it isn't broken in, it is well-aged.

If it is the wider neck, and in the condition it appears to be, the price may well be fair.

If you want to take it for a ride, be sure it has new strings on it for the full effect. You ambidextrous when it comes to guitar playing?
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#29 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:38 PM

View Postbuddyw, on 08 January 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

What about by the pick guard and the neck, it looks pretty gaudy right there plus almost looks like an over spray line right out from the pick guard.



Sorry, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. Gaudy?
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#30 User is offline   Boyd 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

View Postj45nick, on 08 January 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. Gaudy?


Gaudi was an architect with an unusual, unconventional style. So his name was once used to describe weird things that were considered in poor taste. Have not heard that term used in a long time - you're showing your age here, LOL. My mother used to say it, but I never understood the connection until studying architectural history in college. :)

https://en.wikipedia...toni_Gaud%C3%AD

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Boyd: 08 January 2019 - 06:49 PM

1965 Gibson J-50 ADJ
1974 GIbson J-50 Deluxe
2008 Gibson J-50 Modern Classic
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#31 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:51 PM

View Postbuddyw, on 08 January 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Posted Image


I spotted that, but it doesn't look like spray to me. It may be the pickguard shrinking and pulling up in the corner, and the adhesive sticking out. If you were going to spray that, you would clean it up a lot better. Part of that may be a reflection, if you are talking about the area right next to the pickguard that looks lighter.

It's always hard to judge these things without a first-hand inspection, but the story Buc recounted here makes sense. As I said here earlier, I had an under-the-bed '68 ES 335 until a couple of years ago that was just about this clean, except for one small ding next to the binding. No hint of overspray.

Overspray can be difficult to spot unless it's very local and shows up under black light, but it often results in the oversprayed area being significantly "better" than other parts of the guitar. Since overspray melts into the original lacquer, it isn't always obvious to the naked eye. This guitar, like all suspiciously clean vintage guitars, just needs a careful inspection if you're going to pay that kind of money.

As far as being gaudy goes, let's face it: the bright cherryburst is not for the faint of heart. When My '48-'50 J-45 came back from Gibson in 1968 re-topped and with this same cherryburst, I was so angry I stripped it and re-sprayed it with clear lacquer, keeping it as a J-50 for the next 40 years before having Ross Teigen replicate the original sunburst in 2010 as part of the guitar's million-mile tune-up.

The nice really faded cherrybursts you see from the mid-60's, on the other hand, are subtle and soothing.

To each his own.
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#32 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:55 PM

View PostBoyd, on 08 January 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

Gaudi was an architect with an unusual, unconventional style. So his name was once used to describe weird things that were considered in poor taste. Have not heard that term used in a long time - you're showing your age here, LOL. My mother used to say it, but I never understood the connection until studying architectural history in college. :)


I picked up on it in the same way, in an architectural history course in college. Also visited Sagrada Familia and a bunch of other Gaudi stuff in Barcelona. And yes, it's gaudy. It's a great word, and the history is lost on most, even when the usage hits the mark.
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#33 User is offline   62burst 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:08 PM

View PostBoyd, on 08 January 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

Gaudi
Posted Image


That would be a cool bridge design. . . already has the pin holes- now to get Mr Colosi to make some oval pins for it.

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#34 User is offline   buddyw 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:17 PM

View Postj45nick, on 08 January 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

I spotted that, but it doesn't look like spray to me. It may be the pickguard shrinking and pulling up in the corner, and the adhesive sticking out. If you were going to spray that, you would clean it up a lot better. Part of that may be a reflection, if you are talking about the area right next to the pickguard that looks lighter.

It's always hard to judge these things without a first-hand inspection, but the story Buc recounted here makes sense. As I said here earlier, I had an under-the-bed '68 ES 335 until a couple of years ago that was just about this clean, except for one small ding next to the binding. No hint of overspray.

Overspray can be difficult to spot unless it's very local and shows up under black light, but it often results in the oversprayed area being significantly "better" than other parts of the guitar. Since overspray melts into the original lacquer, it isn't always obvious to the naked eye. This guitar, like all suspiciously clean vintage guitars, just needs a careful inspection if you're going to pay that kind of money.

As far as being gaudy goes, let's face it: the bright cherryburst is not for the faint of heart. When My '48-'50 J-45 came back from Gibson in 1968 re-topped and with this same cherryburst, I was so angry I stripped it and re-sprayed it with clear lacquer, keeping it as a J-50 for the next 40 years before having Ross Teigen replicate the original sunburst in 2010 as part of the guitar's million-mile tune-up.

The nice really faded cherrybursts you see from the mid-60's, on the other hand, are subtle and soothing.

To each his own.


Nope it is always a learning experience when people discuss things, I never thought of the pick
guard shrinking and pulling off of the glue. If I had a redo over I would go with your thoughts. it would still be a little bit gaudy, but having a gaudy Gibson might not be all that bad.

This post has been edited by buddyw: 08 January 2019 - 08:23 PM

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#35 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:26 PM

View Postbobouz, on 06 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

(love 'em!),
Overall, a gorgeous example!

Thanx, bobouz - it's mutual. Posted Image

View Postbuddyw, on 08 January 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

What about by the pick guard and the neck, it looks pretty gaudy right there plus almost looks like an over spray line or I should of said under spray a line with no paint right out from the pick guard.


Posted Image

Have to say I don't get anything gaudy 'bout that picture. Red in itself or a thick version of the pick-guard wouldn't qualify.
It's an ordinary close-up of an old J-45's upper right bout with the typical bat-wing micro-shrinkage.

And J-45s were/are as a matter of fact the opposite of gaudy : A design of pure simplistic or rational thinking.
Actually an example of functionalism, , , or what we just know as funkis.


If anything should be regarded gaudy in the universe of acoustic Gibsons, it would be the mustache- and the Dove bridges.
Both drawn and carved by clever Doc of the 7 dwarfs in close collaboration with Snow White herself during a heavy winter looooong ago.
Listening carefully one can almost hear the dripping wax candles and the warmth from the fireplace in the little wooden cabin where they were created.

This post has been edited by E-minor7: 08 January 2019 - 10:29 PM

You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#36 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:16 AM

Funkis at its most significant, , , , and of course worst.


1940s ~ Posted ImagePosted Image , , , could be late 30s Spain.

Back to the cosy shack.

View Postbuddyw, on 08 January 2019 - 11:05 PM, said:

That sounds like a great place to be writing songs.

As we know the not tall 7 actually did generate a lot of shimmering music there. .
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#37 User is offline   E-minor7 

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:54 AM

'Cuse us Buc, the thread blooms wild.
Looooog ago ~

Do notice 1:58. Could very well be a genuine Orville H. Gibson.
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
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#38 User is offline   Leonard McCoy 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:00 AM

I'm still flabbergasted this be a J-45 from the 1960s. The condition she's in is simply ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Leonard McCoy: 12 January 2019 - 06:00 AM

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#39 User is online   j45nick 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:45 AM

View PostLeonard McCoy, on 12 January 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

I'm still flabbergasted this be a J-45 from the 1960s. The condition she's in is simply ridiculous.


Those things exist. I ran across a one-owner Super 400 from the late 1930's a few years ago. The guitar was owned by a professional musician who was meticulous in the way he cared for it. It did not look unused like this J-45, but it was immaculate and unscathed. His grandson had inherited it, didn't play, and was selling it.

Those are the holy grail of vintage guitars, and they exist: played, but never abused, and probably put away for many years before coming to market.

Expect to pay through the nose when and if you find one. Those are the type of guitars that end up in collections rather than they hands of everyday players, for better or worse.

I suspect a first-hand inspection of this J-45 will show a few aging signs that aren't evident in the photos, but all-in-all, it appears to be a time capsule.
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#40 User is offline   Buc McMaster 

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:58 PM

Well, as is sometimes the case, I was a day late to examine the old J-45.......they sold it yesterday for $5K. Such is life, huh. But they do have this.......

Posted Image

What y'all think? I've got it at the house for awhile to se how I might like it........
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