tvguit Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I bought a Maple banner J-45 off a feller in California a few months back. It seemed to be in pretty good shape except for a pretty nasty repaired headstock break. The repair is solid as a rock but oh, so ugly. The rest of the guitar has the normal chips and scratches but all in all very good! Now I have a choice to make. The previous repairman spliced in a small piece of Mahogany on the lower part of the headstock (I guess he didn't think that the neck would be Maple and Walnut!). He sprayed finish on the splice and on the back of the neck in hopes of hiding the repair a little. So the question now is this: what should I do with the front of the headstock? -Should I leave it the way it is now? -Should I take it to a highly skilled finish expert and have him attempt to blend the Mahogany part in with the rest of the headstock? -Should I, dare I even say it, refinish the entire front of the headstock in an attempt to make her a little easier to look at? Don't choose this answer. Or do, I'm curious as to what you guys think about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 John, The only thing that really bothers me about this repair is the way the bottom half of the front of the headstock looks. I would not refinish the whole front of the headstock, but I would consider whether it would be possible to make it a bit less "in your face" with a thoughtfully-done refinish of that lower part. It won't de-value the guitar any more than has already been done by the repair itself. Save what's left of the original headstock front finish, as it is what helps define it as a "real" banner J-45. If it were me, I would also do a bit of clean-up on those rusty tuners, although you'd have to be careful not to damage those nice buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I would leave it the way it is, you'll get used to it sooner than you imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd have the lower front of the headstock refinished in a satin & weathered black, and add a weathered truss rod cover. On the back of the neck, I'd do a dark blended satin finish from just below the lower break, all the way to the top of the headstock, which would then also cover the upper break on the back of the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This one is a tough call for me. Normally I would say leave it as it. But I ended up having ten screw holes in the top of my 1950s Epiphone flat top repaired. They were there when I got the guitar and were not impacting anything that really counted. But for whatever reason they just bothered the heck out of me. So while it was not necessary to have the work donwe I did find that it made me feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsegui Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'd take it to a luthier who can replicate an old finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Given the rarity of a maple banner era guitar it's a real shame, if you love the guitar a decent (but costly) job is in order, if its ok but not amazing keep it as is. Tuners look a bit rough, but then again... Good luck with your choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I would have the headstock professionally restored and take detailed pictures of the process so when and if you want to sell it, you can show that is the only area that has been fixed. I would also replace the tuners and keep the old ones in a box for the new owner. Purely my opinion. BUT .....as we say in the collector car hobby, ultimately it's yours and you need to feel good about owning it, regardless of what others think about condition. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Send it to an expert in vintage Gibsons for getting that headstock touched up. I've had some experience with good techs/luthiers, and would be happy to recommend folks like Mark Stutman at Folkway or Dennis Berck. I'm sure others may have additional recommendations. Just don't bring it to someone without a proven track record in vintage Gibson repair/restoration. To get some more vintage/collector input, including some world class experts on such things, put up a post in the UMGF Vintage Corner. People like Willi Henkes, Dennis Berck, and others occasionally provide input especially on rarer guitars such as maple Banners! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je302 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I say leave it as is.... or you could sell it to me for a great price... lol, beautiful guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 It seems like the consensus is to try to blend the bottom half of the front of the headstock with the top. That is what I was kind of leaning towards too. It really is a fine sounding guitar although quite different than a hog J-45. The tuners work pretty well for their age/condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Send it on sabatical in a semi-arid high altitude climate for, I dunno, 5 years or so. By then you will want it back so bad you will have almost forgotten about the headstock. Seriously though - if I had the scratch, I'd try to restore it, the headstock. Looks hacked as-is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Thats the strangest head break I've ever seen. The few that I have seen were right above the nut and more ragged. This one looks like someone sawed off and switched tops with another guitar. I also think if it was mine, I would try to get it looking better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 What if...you were to decide to replace the tuners and once you got them and the bushings that seat them against the headstock off it appears from your picture that you would have the face of the headstock as one level plane? If this is so, why couldn't you have a very thin veneer made, painted and decaled (and reliced)so that it looks orginal, that is laid over the existing face of the headstock and only held in place by the new bushings (or nuts) used to attach the new tuners, so that if anyone in the future wanted to, they could remove the tuners and see the original face as it looks now. Did I word that so it makes sense to the mind's eye? After that you attach a new truss rod cover per usual, maybe have to use a little longer screw than usual, and you get the cosmetic appeal without really permanently altering what has become this guitars scarred life (mojo?) to date. Also, you could keep it and play it while you wait for the new "face" to be completed and then you can install it yourself or it's a really quick installation for your local luthier. Does anyone see something about this idea that wouldn't work? I'd, personally, then leave the back of the neck alone 'cause I don't think it looks all that bad, unless the joint feels funny to your fretting hand or some such. Just something that came to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 First, congrats on the Maple Banner J-45! Cool guitar. As for the headstock, I share Dave F's curiosity about the damage. It's really hard to visualize this as having broken off rather than having been sawed off with someone then adding in that sliver of mahogany that's the width of the saw blade. If it were mine, I'd invent a good story: jealous husband saws off the headstock of the guitar that belongs to the fellow he caught with his wife when the husband came back from WWII. Anyway, I'd have a talented luthier touch it up, but not so well that I couldn't keep telling that story at gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'd invent a good story The story I got from the seller was that it belonged to Gladys Atkins of Porterville, CA. She bought it new and passed away about a decade ago. She had this and supposedly had a Gibson archtop acoustic as well but they didn't know the model. She was kind of frail at the end of her life so there was a young man living in the house taking care of things. He was a kind of a bad dude and ended up stealing the archtop but didn't think to grab this one. Too bad for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Of course, you could just love that old guitar just as it is: It's current appearance could just be an enduring witness to it's rough & tumble past... &.. "How does it sound?" ! Yeah. I thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Of course, you could just love that old guitar just as it is: It's current appearance could just be an enduring witness to it's rough & tumble past... &.. "How does it sound?" ! Yeah. I thought so. The only one of these I've played was a bit thinner in sound than a 'hog J-45, but fairly bright and articulate. Not as appealing to my ear as 'hog, but definitely a unique sound very identifiable as a vintage slope J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mking Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Contact John Mosconi at String King in Akron Ohio. He worked on my 1948 LG-2 and he is a real artist at blending and refinishing. One of his specialties is refinish restorations. He is a Gibson Level A shop. When I asked him what that meant he told me he is authorized to do Gibson refinishing by Gibson. Here is the URL for his website. http://www.stringkinglutherie.com/ Send your photos to John and explain the situation. He will give you a straight answer. Tell him Michael King in Norfolk VA referred you to him. If he thinks he can do the restoration you will not be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 That guitar is too far beyond any chance of being pretty..why bother. Just put a truss rod cover on it, and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 The only one of these I've played was a bit thinner in sound than a 'hog J-45, but fairly bright and articulate. Not as appealing to my ear as 'hog, but definitely a unique sound very identifiable as a vintage slope J. The tone of this one is a bit difficult to describe but I'll do my best. Take a banner J-45, subtract the raunchy low end break up, add some high end sparkle and articulation, add a touch more volume than average. The biggest difference to my ear is the lack of the bluesy low end break up. The neck shape is feels a little wider and flatter than the other banners I've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Did you buy it for its looks, its sound or its potential for flipping? If for looks - was the plan to have a beater you wouldn't have to coddle? Or to have a mojo/relic that would impart a mystique/message to others when you opened the case? Therein lies your answer - not what others would project based on their reaction to these pix - but what you as a sophisticated guitar aficianado originally saw in this guitar. Seriously though, I would do something about the pickguard placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The biggest difference to my ear is the lack of the bluesy low end break up. Exactly, and the "low-end break-up" is one of the great things about the average 'hog slope J. Can you say "thump"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 That guitar is too far beyond any chance of being pretty..why bother. Just put a truss rod cover on it, and play. I actually think it's pretty nifty looking to be honest, given a bit of thought to it, I reckon I would leave this as is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The tone of this one is a bit difficult to describe but I'll do my best. Take a banner J-45, subtract the raunchy low end break up, add some high end sparkle and articulation, add a touch more volume than average. The biggest difference to my ear is the lack of the bluesy low end break up. The neck shape is feels a little wider and flatter than the other banners I've had. John, Check your PM. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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