quapman Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It's not that much different than when he was here. It has been a mess for a long time, this is nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 It's not that much different than when he was here. It has been a mess for a long time, this is nothing new. At least MTV played music back then. Music Television that doesn't play music, he would have a blast with that one...and the unions are worse now than then...ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 At least MTV played music back then. Music Television that doesn't play music, he would have a blast with that one...and the unions are worse now than then...ugh. Be careful,, you were starting to make sense. MTV was what caused everything you are complaining about. It changed everything. Far as I'm concerned as soon as music became visual it started going downhill. Image became more important than music. And the next thing you know Millie Vanili is born. It was pathetic to watch the 70s rockers try to fit back into the market. I'm sorry but nothing good ever came out of MTV. And yes,, that is my opinion, not fact. What you are saying today I was saying in the 80s. Music died for me then. Everything was synthesized and sequenced. It became more about image and how big your hair was. That's why I am so optimistic today. I am happy to see real music return. The 80's were very bad music times for me. I hated it. Again,, just my opinion. not fact. millions loved it and shaped the industry. And I believe they shaped the industry you are complaining about today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Be careful,, you were starting to make sense. MTV was what caused everything you are complaining about. It changed everything. Far as I'm concerned as soon as music became visual it started going downhill. Image became more important than music. And the next thing you know Millie Vanili is born. It was pathetic to watch the 70s rockers try to fit back into the market. I'm sorry but nothing good ever came out of MTV. And yes,, that is my opinion, not fact. What you are saying today I was saying in the 80s. Music died for me then. Everything was synthesized and sequenced. It became more about image and how big your hair was. That's why I am so optimistic today. I am happy to see real music return. The 80's were very bad music times for me. I hated it. Again,, just my opinion. not fact. millions loved it and shaped the industry. And I believe they shaped the industry you are complaining about today. Yes, I agree. When MTV started it was 'kind of OK'. They played live concerts from time to time and to some degree the visual mixed with the music. Once they had the gossip segments (they called it 'news') it really started to hit the skids. Then came 'The Real World' (what as 'real' about it?) and I haven't watched a second since. Another poor impact it had was the fact that they charged so much for videos and they made money, the labels made money and the bands made next to nothing. Bands wrote songs to fit the video time allotment and could care less about the songs. So who is too blame? It's human nature, that's what I blame. If Jimi Hendrix were beginning in 1984-85, he most likely would have fallen into the trap. If MTV were around when Beethoven got started...he would have...well, let's hope not...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 It was pathetic to watch the 70s rockers try to fit back into the market. I'm sorry but nothing good ever came out of MTV. And yes,, that is my opinion, not fact. What you are saying today I was saying in the 80s. Music died for me then. Everything was synthesized and sequenced. It became more about image and how big your hair was. That's why I am so optimistic today. I am happy to see real music return. The 80's were very bad music times for me. I hated it. Again,, just my opinion. not fact. millions loved it and shaped the industry. And I believe they shaped the industry you are complaining about today. Hehe..replace 70's with 80's and 80's with 90's for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 IMO the best thing that MTV did was the Unplugged sessions.. some GREAT stuff came from that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idaKi-rIKkI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I don't wanna get nasty to "music executives." Here's why: They no longer have a market in the sense that they had up to the cassette tape era. Remember when there even was a battle over CD recorders that could record from radio or whatever? How do those companies manage to stay in business? I dunno, but it ain't, as I said, the old days. They've gotta find an artist they think will make them money, PR the heck out of the artist and whatever, and try to monetize the music and artist somehow. Again, it ain't nearly as easy as it used to was... Also I'm utterly convinced that there simply are too many media openings for any artist to be as well known as in the 50s and 60s. Even the 70s started to move away from some of the earlier opportunities as production improved from the basic stage used on Ed Sullivan. <grin> Once MTV and other cable television hit, some of the splintering of genres began, and the walls between different genres and sub-genres increased during the 80s and 90s and... heck, I don't even try nowadays... If a person who's played music of several genres for money doesn't really care about much of any current material, why? It's not because there isn't great skill and talent out there, and far better production values. Part of it's because I'm old and have little enough time for stuff I already know that like - BUT, mostly it's that nothing is making me aware of options other than the folks on this list! m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hehe..replace 70's with 80's and 80's with 90's for me. While I see the 80's for what it was, plastic and superficial, I at least can respect that it was somewhat original. The sound, while synth driven, electronic drum-driven, or glammed, etc., was at least new. The 90's, to me, sounded like people who wanted to revolt against the 80's and used their interpretation of the 70's to do so. Grunge was punk-ish and the folk sound was 70's-ish. They tweaked it a bit but I think it lacked true originality, overall. The innate 'vibe' I get from the 90's was of a spoiled child, not truly organic. That's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 We thought MTV was the greatest thing that ever happened, I won't ever forget the first day. We also thought that the music industry was just as bad as you guys are talking about it is today. It's easy to look back and say it ruined everything. The record companies ran with it, the bands followed. Remember that nobody made them sign anything, they did it willingly. MTV was pretty darn fun until The Real World. If what we are saying here is true, once MTV stopped playing music then music would have had a recovery of sorts. It didn't, because it was already broken before they came along. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Look at the 'Best Jazz Instrumental Albums' in the Grammy awards. The guys who won in the old days STILL win it. Corea, Metheny...when they die no one will win the award. Look at the best Pop Instrumental Grammy's. Same guys from the 70's win today. Larry Carlton keeps it alive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 well if the guitar erea is gone, then maybe i can get a real good deal on that Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul jr. special w/P90's at my favorite music store. every decade, generation, phase of music has its high points and its low points. true talent shines through no matter the genre or era. when i was 14, i was foolishly dismissive about musicians from previous decades. then i heard Les Paul play for the first time. i just sat on my bed dumbfounded. Mtv was fun and cool when it first started, but after a bit it got old for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 While I see the 80's for what it was, plastic and superficial, I at least can respect that it was somewhat original. The sound, while synth driven, electronic drum-driven, or glammed, etc., was at least new. The 90's, to me, sounded like people who wanted to revolt against the 80's and used their interpretation of the 70's to do so. Grunge was punk-ish and the folk sound was 70's-ish. They tweaked it a bit but I think it lacked true originality, overall. The innate 'vibe' I get from the 90's was of a spoiled child, not truly organic. That's just me... Oh you are preaching to the choir but...the 80's for me were Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth, Death Angel, earlky Def Leppard, Judas Priest, Nasty Savage, HellHammer, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, Black Sabbath with Dio, Dio as a solo, Rainbow with Joe Lynn Turner, Skid Row, Guns and Roses and other 50 bads that were not glam. I have never understood why everybody thinks exclusively of Glam when they think of the 80's, maybe because they only know mainstream bands? I liked Glam bands songs but that was my equivalent of Pop, I mean Poison's Talk Dirty To Me, who didn't like that? or Ratt and Warren DeMartini's licks, etc. I never hated on Glam bands except the ones that got straight up clownish. I liked Grunge but I liked Pearl Jam more than Nirvana, I mean PJ was (to me) different and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 And, of course, just look at how "Splintered" even the main catagories are, anymore. Each genre, now has multiple sub-genres, and people themselves contribute to that, as well. By what they've now decided is "real" and/or not "real" Rock, Jazz, Country, etc., ect., etc.! Back in the "Good Old Days," there was Rock, Country, Jazz, Classical, and, possibly, "New Age!" Now, there's a myriad, of sub categories, than no one can keep up with, even if they want to. That's Marketing=Money! Everything is now about Money, first, artistry, last! Don't think so...just listen to the "Main Stream" media music. Especially "Country" and "Pop!" Minimal artistic input, and cost, for maximum airplay=maximum profit! Flash, as opposed to substance! Don't have a specific sound, that they think will "sell"...they just fabricate a group, or sometimes the "sound" first, via computers, and tailor/fabricate a "band" to match it. Nothing really new, there..."The Monkees" were such a band, too. But, it's even easier, to do, now. "Real" Rock & Roll (whatever you deem that to be), may not be (entirely) Dead, but it's on serious "life support!" As with "Hollywood" movies, the only real hope for the film industry, is "Independent" movie makers. Same, with "Rock & Roll!" Of course, there are ALWAYS "exceptions!" That's a given. IMHO, as always. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Oh you are preaching to the choir but...the 80's for me were Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth, Death Angel, early Def Leppard, Judas Priest, Nasty Savage, HellHammer, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, Black Sabbath with Dio, Dio as a solo, Rainbow with Joe Lynn Turner, Skid Row, Guns and Roses and other 50 bads that were not glam... Riffster.....please don't take this the wrong way but, without exception, every single band you listed came about after, for me, the Guitar Era Was Gone For Good..... This is why Surreal will NEVER be able to understand how ridiculous his stance seems to people who have a different perspective from him. I'm outta here. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammin' Joe Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Is the Guitar Era gone for good? Well this is just my opinion..... I think it's over as we (us who grew up in the 60's 70's or 80's) knew it. I don't think guitar oriented bands are going to be selling out arenas and stadiums night after night as they did back in the day. Sure there are a few bands who still could but for the most part I think they're just going to be playing smaller venues. While I think that Devon Allman, Duane Betts and Berry Oakley Jr are as fine musicians as their fathers were/are, I don't think they'll ever be as big as them. I would love to hear them on mainstream radio, but the market today isn't pushing that kind of music. Then again the Grateful Dead never really had a lot of radio play, other than a few hits, but they had hundreds if not thousands of devoted fans who would follow them across country to every show on a tour. Is there any bands out there now with those kind of fans? Will we ever see another band with those kind of fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oh you are preaching to the choir but...the 80's for me were Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth, Death Angel, earlky Def Leppard, Judas Priest, Nasty Savage, HellHammer, Celtic Frost, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, Black Sabbath with Dio, Dio as a solo, Rainbow with Joe Lynn Turner, Skid Row, Guns and Roses and other 50 bads that were not glam. I have never understood why everybody thinks exclusively of Glam when they think of the 80's, maybe because they only know mainstream bands? I liked Glam bands songs but that was my equivalent of Pop, I mean Poison's Talk Dirty To Me, who didn't like that? or Ratt and Warren DeMartini's licks, etc. I never hated on Glam bands except the ones that got straight up clownish. I liked Grunge but I liked Pearl Jam more than Nirvana, I mean PJ was (to me) different and good. I was/am a big fan of those, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Riffster.....please don't take this the wrong way but, without exception, every single band you listed came about after, for me, the Guitar Era Was Gone For Good..... This is why Surreal will NEVER be able to understand how ridiculous his stance seems to people who have a different perspective from him. I'm outta here. P. Pippy, plenty of people agree with me. And if I am wrong, please list the guitar heroes that are out there now...not the same old guys that are now 50. Give me 10 guitar gods born after 1990. Guys that mainstream has accepted. In my era, the guitar gods were known by nearly everyone...that's what I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreal For Real Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 well if the guitar erea is gone, then maybe i can get a real good deal on that Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul jr. special w/P90's at my favorite music store. every decade, generation, phase of music has its high points and its low points. true talent shines through no matter the genre or era. when i was 14, i was foolishly dismissive about musicians from previous decades. then i heard Les Paul play for the first time. i just sat on my bed dumbfounded. Mtv was fun and cool when it first started, but after a bit it got old for me. Yes, but we are well past that timeframe. It's been 25 years...with nothing in sight. 25 years from now we will be saying, "It's been 50 years since a guitarist/instrumentalist has had a hit album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Riffster.....please don't take this the wrong way but, without exception, every single band you listed came about after, for me, the Guitar Era Was Gone For Good..... I agree with Pippy. I like none of those bands listed. No not all glam. Call it thrash metal. Thrash metal did nothing for me either. My exception of that list being Black Sabbath,,, although,,,. As a youngster I was a HUGE Sabbath fan. But they lost me on every album after Sabotage. I waned on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, they had me back for Sabotoage, then they lost me forever. Although 13 for me is the most like the original Sabbath and I quite like it. The whole point here is there is no right or wrong. It's all opinion. No one better than the other. No one more right than the other. I mean Poison's Talk Dirty To Me, who didn't like that? or Ratt and Warren DeMartini's licks, etc. Me,,, lol.. I couldn't stand to even look at poison. They were Kiss without make up. But it's all just opinion,, nothing more nothing less. I love Zappa,, most people can't stand it. I can live with that. It's ok. The 60s and the 70s,(the era's I happen to be most comfortable in musically) are gone forever. Music has and will continue to change. You can either choose to find new stuff and seek to be entertained, or you can choose to live in the past and listen to what you like. Both are fine. I just don't buy the whole "kids are taking the path of least resistance" and choosing the easy route, or that the musicianship has somehow gotten sloppier. If music is sloppy now where do you put the Sex Pistols from 1975? They may have been one of the most influential bands of all time,, but they were crappy musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 25 years from now we will be saying, "It's been 50 years since a guitarist/instrumentalist has had a hit album. More likely we will never say that again... So what? Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yes, but we are well past that timeframe. It's been 25 years...with nothing in sight. 25 years from now we will be saying, "It's been 50 years since a guitarist/instrumentalist has had a hit album. No, you will be saying that. Nobody else will care. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Pippy, plenty of people agree with me. And if I am wrong, please list the guitar heroes that are out there now...not the same old guys that are now 50. Give me 10 guitar gods born after 1990. Guys that mainstream has accepted. In my era, the guitar gods were known by nearly everyone...that's what I am saying. But that's the thing, there are guitar gods, there are a lot of good players out there it's just that because it all has been done in the past there is no element of surprise that propelled other guys to the spotlight. Jimi Hendrix, Van Halen, Yngwie, they were the first in their respective styles. All styles have been covered so much so that many hold Kurt Cobain as their idol, they did not want any more pimp flashing guitar players. I just saw Chris Broderick play with Megadeth and my mind was blown. The guys from Avenged Sevenfold are some of the best dual guitars out there but God forbid that anybody says that because: - That's what the kids like. - They will be compared to something somebody somewhere has seen before. Get a time machine and place these guys in 1979 and there they are Guitar Heros, end of story and argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave78 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 This topic has come up so many times in the last 50 years and everytime it does it makes me laugh. There are so many great guitarists out there today even if you may not be into there style just for example here are a list of fabulous guitar players that are out there today and relatively mainstream. John Mayer Keith Urban Brad Paisley Kenny Wayne Sheppard Johnny Lang Jack White John Frusciante Derek Trucks Like I said these may not be your favorite guys but they are all truly amazing players and this is just a few off the top of my head. Alot of the people that we look at today as the greatest players of all time never got much radio play back in the day and I'm sure that in 30 years from now some people that are out there today will be the ones that are being listened to then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Heck, there's a LOT of Great Players, that no one knows the name of, except their friends, and families. Always have been, always will be. Being a "Guitar God," has directly, or indirectly, killed several great players, too. It's really an unfair, and unwanted moniker, to hang on some musician. Especially, by an ever growing fickled fan based public. And, of course, everyone's definition of a "Guitar God," varies, as well. So, what's the point, beyond espousing one's own personal prefernces?! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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