KSG_Standard Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I just had to re-tube my marshall. I've been using Sovtek 5881 power tubes since I got the amp in 1995 bacause that's what came in it. As I was researching tubes this past year, I was reading more and more about the NOS/VOS tube market. Being the doubting Thomas that I am, I was reluctant to buy in to the hype about them. I finally decided to try them out for myself and I bought some NOS JAN-Phillips 6L6WGB tubes instead of the Sovteks. Holy crap! The hype was spot on. The difference in sound is amazing. These tubes are very sweet and musical sounding, they make the Sovteks sound like sh1t. I bought the tubes online from TheTubeDoctor.Com. What experience, if any, do you folks have with NOS tubes? What brand tubes do you prefer? Do you notice any difference in the different brands of tubes? Who do you buy from? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynadude Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Don't want to get into the rest of the discussion, but I can tell you that I never cared for Sovteks at all, and especially their 5881s. Fender used them in some of their models in the mid 90's, and everyone threw them in the trash, or replaced them shortly after because they would fail. I had one blow in a amp I was trying out in the shop, brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar slinger Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well, my first experience with NOS tubes was with my Champion 600 RI (a champ) that comes stock with crappy tubes and speaker. I still has the crappy speaker, but swapping the tubes to regular ones improved the tone once and then changing to NOS improved it even further. I liked it som much that when I asked for my custom made Bassman it already came out of factory with NOS tubes. A very pricey investment (here in Brazil) but still well worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Guitarest, I don't remember the cost difference, but I bought 4 (the amp uses 2 and I wanted backups) of the 6L6WGBs for $140.00 plus tax. The improvement in tone was very noticable. Dynadude, now you've got me wondering if the improvement in tone was just because I got rid of the Sovteks...Doh! Now I'll have to try some other tubes as well. The funny thing about these tubes is that my father was a radar navigator/bombardier on a B-36 Peacemaker (http://www.air-and-space.com/peacemkr.htm) bomber from 1949-1953 and these jan-phillips tubes were used on the airplane. He laughed at me when I told him what I'd bought and how much I paid for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I don't know too much about tubes, but I do know that GrooveTubes are just Sovteks with the red Groovetube lable added. If you hold them up to the light you can see the faint Sovtek Made in Russia on the glass. I also think it's time for some new power tubes in my B52. It came with Sovtek 5881s but is starting to sound pretty flat after about 3 years. It used to have a real sparkle to it but not so much anymore. I think I'll look for another brand too. I did find some NOS 12AX7 tubes in some of my dads stuff a while ago. They said The Fisher, Made in West Germany on the glass. I put them in my pre-amp and they sounded pretty good, but it didn't make a big enough difference so I sold them on Ebay and re-installed the GrooveTubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hey man, good to hear it turned up good... I've heard some horror stories of guys that spent lots on NOS tubes and they sounded worst than the ones they were using bedore! I havent tried any of them, but I changed tubes for my main 2 amps last year (around june) to JJs (some guys on the vintage amp forum recommended them over any other brand) and I gotta admit, they really sound better than those sovteks both amps had at the time. I know I will get flamed for this, but I changed the rectifier to a Webber Copper Cap... and it works fine, and its supposed to last forever. (EDIT:) I forgot to mention, I buy from "the tube store" (www.thetubestore.com), they are nice and always willing to help you if you contact them via mail or phonecall...they will send you matched pairs or matched quads without charging extra (as some f-ckers around here do) and they ship overseas either by USPS or whatever courier you chose (DHL, FedEx, etc.) all orders are trackable and very nicely packed so I dont have to worry about my tubes not ariving or being damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 The tubedoctor.com charged my 5.00 extra for matched tubes...those bastards!! From everything I've read the pre-amp tubes are not as important to tone as the power tubes...what do ya'll think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 IMO, it depends on the amp. One of mine is a 1966 Fender Champ that might just have the original tubes in it - RCA power and rectifier, Telefunken preamp. A couple of months ago, I swapped in a new Tung-Sol in the preamp and, IMO, the amp sounded better with that tube; a little brighter and not so "constricted" for lack of a better word. That said, I can see putting NOS or lightly used old tubes in a vintage amp as the amp was likely designed around those tubes or something similar. However, new amps (with very few exceptions) are designed using new tubes so I would imagine that those builders are keeping that in mind when tweaking their designs. But, as with my findings above with the old amp and a new tube, I'm sure good results can be had by putting old tubes in a new amp as well. My conclusion? It's a craps shoot no matter what you put in any amp, whether NOS or current production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The Tubestore is about 10 minutes away from me, yet ive never been there. Ill check it out one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This is a complex subject but yea tubes make a huge difference, I bought my peavey classic 30 used and it came with brand new JJs, the seller gave me the full set of sovteks he took off. One day I installed them out of curiosity and holy crap those things are like an ice pick sctratching on a chalkboard. The JJ's are back in. Now sovetks are not the worst tubes out there, I mean Groove Tubes brands them a lot, they somehow choose them and label them. These tubes are actually preferred by clean players. I have read that NOS tubes are better vaccuumed because tubes back then were prevalent and factories kept busy making them, now that tubes are used mainly for amplifiers and audiophile electronics they make tubes to last a few months of heavy use and then they go out. I buy from www.tubesandmore.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This is a complex subject but yea tubes make a huge difference' date=' I bought my peavey classic 30 used and it came with brand new JJs, the seller gave me the full set of sovteks he took off. One day I installed them out of curiosity and holy crap those things are like an ice pick sctratching on a chalkboard. The JJ's are back in.[/quote'] The JJs have a general reputation for being smoother and darker sounding so, yeah, that makes sense. Doug's Tubes is another good source as he does a lot of screening and also matching upon request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slogold Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hey guy's if you want to talk tubes let me introduce you to this guy..... http://www.dougstubes.com/?gclid=CPjZpNKXppICFRImawodzl6FQg Very nice guy, not only a tube retailer but also a tube amp designer and builder. And oh yeah, I almost forgot he likes to talk about tubes... A LOT!!!! Just try giving him a call tell him what kind of sound you are looking for for your amp and I'm sure he'll set you up. Tell him a guy from CA w/ MESA BOOGIE DC 10 sent you. But of course at the end it's all up to you. PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The JJs have a general reputation for being smoother and darker sounding so' date=' yeah, that makes sense. [/quote'] Yep, and peavey classics have a reputation of being too bright so JJs is the only way to go. Not only that, JJs they breakup much better. I can tell on my Epi Valve Junior, I changed the power tube from sovtek to a JJ and there you can see the difference. Using my Explorer and maxing the volume knob on the amp you can see how the sovtek farts and clips unevenly and struggles and the JJ breaks up in a even and smotther way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I might have to break down and try a set of JJs in my Blues Junior (a pretty brittle sounding amp). I have JJ EL84s in the power section but I think the Tung-Sols in the preamp might be a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paitken76 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I had the exact experience the first time I tries NOS tubes in my amps. I thought to myself "Just how much difference is this really going to make? It cant be much. Then later I thought the difference will be what I paid for these things and thats all - moron" But I went for it and just like you I couldn't believe just how different my amps sounded! It was unbelievable how much more smooth tone and clarity I got. I also bought mine online from Tube Doctor. Great prices, quick shipping and even prompt email support. Just do a little research, see whats available and find out what the tubes characteristics are, how they sound and so on to get an idea of what they can provide. Of course you should try to figure out what you feel is missing from your tone first so that you know what your after and then find the tube NOS or not that fits and experiment. I tried a few and all where fantastic. Lately I've been using JJ's and am in a world on tonal happiness! I would agree though that it certainly depends on the amp. Don't waste your money one expensive tubes if you have an inexpensive amp or for that matter if you arent remotely happy with what your amp is delivering right now. It won't wake the dead but it will certainly give a whole new life and add a bit more tone and personality to already great amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm running Boogie tubes in the Blue Angel, except for the rectifier. I recently stuck in a nos Mullard (Made In Great Britian) that I'd been hording/saving for several years until I needed it, and had an amp WORTHY........ I've been hording tubes for years and have many nos 6L6's, and 12ax7's, 5751's, 7025s, ect. But zero (nos) 6V6's, or (nos) EL84's (6BQ5). Go figure..... My Prosonic uses 6L6's, and it now has some old Syvanias that sound great, but I'm stuck on that Blue Angel for the smaller 150/300 seat bars I'm doing these days. Personally, the pre amp tubes don't make a helluva lot of difference in tone to me, I go for reliability. People will argue that. I don't have time to argue it, I just don't hear enough difference to waste much time on em'. I'm saturating the power tubes with a touch of semi clean boost, and 57 Classic's, and can adjust....... I insist on good tubes, clean tubes, but am not anal enough to switch out preamp tubes for days, (years) and argue the difference. Every room I play has a different sound anyhow. Best of luck. Murph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Trying lots of tubes is definitely the way to go. What works for one person andone amp will not always work for another... That said, generally I have found NOS tubes in newer era tube amps don't seem to make a noticeable difference. I've taken old Telefunkens that sound great in my vintage Fenders and put them in my newer amps and not noticed any improvement in sound. I generally ditch any stock Sovteks in them, however, and replace them with JJ's. I have had great luck with certain NOS tubes in some of my older amps. Buying them off eBay can be a bit of a crap shoot. If you get NOS tubes form a reputable dealer the risks are lessened, IMO. (thetubestore.com usually has quite a few and have been great to do business with). If you do buy them off eBay, make sure the seller has a good tube tester and offers the test numbers for the items you are actually purchasing. A final word - the JAN Phillips tubes are generally great. I have used quite a few in the V1, V2, and phase inverter positions on my vintage Fenders with great results. They are military spec (JAN standing for Joint Army Navy) and they are very consistent and durable. Best of luck with the tube swapping. Once you start you just can's stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 ... Once you start you just can's stop! That's what I'm afraid of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I might have to break down and try a set of JJs in my Blues Junior (a pretty brittle sounding amp). I have JJ EL84s in the power section but I think the Tung-Sols in the preamp might be a bit too much. JJs in a BJ work well. It made mine a little warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarooster52 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Every room I play has a different sound anyhow. Murph. +1 - LOL Isn't that the bottom line?! I guess "perfect tone" is limited to your bedroom or studio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer993 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Have you read this months Vintage Guitar Magazine article on counterfeit NOS tubes - nothing is sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichCI Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 IMO' date=' it depends on the amp. One of mine is a 1966 Fender Champ that might just have the original tubes in it - RCA power and rectifier, Telefunken preamp. A couple of months ago, I swapped in a new Tung-Sol in the preamp and, IMO, the amp sounded better with that tube; a little brighter and not so "constricted" for lack of a better word. That said, I can see putting NOS or lightly used old tubes in a vintage amp as the amp was likely designed around those tubes or something similar. However, new amps (with very few exceptions) are designed using new tubes so I would imagine that those builders are keeping that in mind when tweaking their designs. But, as with my findings above with the old amp and a new tube, I'm sure good results can be had by putting old tubes in a new amp as well. My conclusion? It's a craps shoot no matter what you put in any amp, whether NOS or current production.[/quote'] I take it all back. I stuck the Telefunken from my Champ in the V1 position of my Blues Junior yesterday and it made an appreciable difference; the amp sounded much less brittle. Perhaps the Tung-Sols are similar in tone to the stock tubes that came with the amp. So, that got me to thinking. My Mesa is also a really bright sounding amp - too much so. So, when I got to rehearsal tonight, I swapped the Tung-Sol I had in V1 with a JJ I had in V3 and... WOW! The amp sounds much more robust and less harsh. So, I'm placing an order tomorrow for a mess of JJ 12AX7s to stick in both the Mesa and Blues Junior. I think the Tung-Sols would be better suited for darker sounding amps; they do break up quickly which is good if you like a pretty overdriven tone but they're just not working out in my particular amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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