62burst Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Some months ago, I was on a mission to find some kind of bass note clarity in a short scale, slope-shoulder Gibson. The deeper-bodied Jackson Browne model was getting there, but the walnut tone and shallow neck profile wasn't working for me. Ended up following Ren Ferguson over to Guild, where he was able to bring a deep-bodied, short scale 12-fret to the market in mahogany with the Orpheum series... that was more like it. While still within the return grace period of that purchase, I a/b'ed the guitar with a 1937 Gibson Roy Smeck Stage DeLuxe at Vintage Instruments, Philadelphia. The Smeck did have that clarified deep amber tone characteristic of 1930's guitars (and the more you dig in, the more it gives that tone back to you), but the Guild had more of what I was looking for. Thankfully. However, honorable mention must go to V.I. proprietor Fred Oster; he did an admirable job listening to what I was looking for, tone-wise, and although he did not have one in inventory, Fred suggested what I might try sometime was a late 1930's Gibson-built Recording King Ray Whitley, with rosewood back & sides. Easier said than done; in general, there were very few 1930's/1940's Gibson sloped-shoulder short-scale jumbo's ever made with rosewood . A small number of early 40's Southern Jumbo's were also made with rosewood, but with a total production run of maybe 232 Ray Whitley's, tone or no tone, these guitars are now firmly on the radar of "collectors", and folk such as Gary of Gary's Overpriced Classic Guitars now offer a Ray Whitley at $25K. This makes for an expensive guitar, even at the "fixer" level, as witnessed in this recent eBay auction garnering 58 bids, and $6.6K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 . Yikes! . . . Did El Kabong own that? Looks like there's a coupla chunks of wood missing on that treble side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 . Yikes! . . . Did El Kabong own that? Looks like there's a coupla chunks of wood missing on that treble side. No, that would be Jannus Guy. El Kabong is his alter ego......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverSteve Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Obviously I don't know exactly what "bass note clarity" you're looking for but my Custom Shop J-45 Southern Jumbo has great bass clarity. Try there. It beats months of searching and $25,000 guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 So the Roy Smeck didn't rumble your soul? I'm sort of surprised at the Recording King Ray Whiley suggestion, and the price, never would've guessed that. So, am I also to understand you're moving along the JB? They are magnificent guitars,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 So the Roy Smeck didn't rumble your soul? I'm sort of surprised at the Recording King Ray Whiley suggestion, and the price, never would've guessed that. So, am I also to understand you're moving along the JB? They are magnificent guitars,. A vintage Smeck is outside my budget. Was there a Smeck re-issue, or a hog version of the JB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Obviously I don't know exactly what "bass note clarity" you're looking for but my Custom Shop J-45 Southern Jumbo has great bass clarity. Try there. It beats months of searching and $25,000 guitars. Steve- sometimes it's more about the search, than the find ; ). So the Roy Smeck didn't rumble your soul? I'm sort of surprised at the Recording King Ray Whiley suggestion, and the price, never would've guessed that. So, am I also to understand you're moving along the JB? They are magnificent guitars,. Yes, Dan- I struck a deal with Gary Burnett last fall & traded the JB for the very soundy 1949 LG-2. Imagine that, a "student" guitar. And yes, the Jackson Browne guitars are special. Who knows, another time, another place, one might come home with me again. A vintage Smeck is outside my budget. Was there a Smeck re-issue, or a hog version of the JB? Yes, Nick, Gibson made Smeck Reissues a couple of times. They even did a Smeck Radio Grande Re-ish in rosewood (I recently saw an eBay listing for a natural topped one). Not sure if they increased the body depth as in the JB's, though. And if the Jackson Browne were available in the slightly less "green" mahogany, I'd probably still have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 OK, so at this point of the narrative you gave up the JB and got a vintage LG-2 AND you still have the Guild Orpheum? I was playing my 12 fret Guild tonight and it's finally starting to loosen up a bit and get some character. The bass is starting to reveal itself more too. I'm very impressed by this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Not sure if this is a short scale. No affiliation. I know they'll deal with you. http://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/collections/gibson/products/gibson-1934-jumbo-w-ohsc-94-nos-centennial-acoustic-collection-price-reduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 OK, so at this point of the narrative you gave up the JB and got a vintage LG-2 AND you still have the Guild Orpheum? I was playing my 12 fret Guild tonight and it's finally starting to loosen up a bit and get some character. The bass is starting to reveal itself more too. I'm very impressed by this guitar. MtnPkr- yes, a bit of a narrative. Yes, just played the Guild, and happy to say it's still here. I know they'll deal with you. http://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/collections/gibson/products/gibson-1934-jumbo-w-ohsc-94-nos-centennial-acoustic-collection-price-reduced Even me? ; ). Thanks for the GAS Dave. That is some seriously fine spruce selection on the top of that '94 (New Old Stock(?!)). Check out the silking w/ the magnify feature. The rosewood is fairly interesting, as well. Thankfully, it's not a 12 fret; guitar kryptonite, & all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I know you said G, SS, etc, 62B! But for reference, have you played a broken in HD28v? Apart from the scale and the name..........my 2006 model has what you asked in huge amounts! Possibly from the forward shifted scalloped bracing? Look up Spoon Phillips demo for Mauries Music if you are interested.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Try this one I think Dave Matthews has been using this brand for a few years http://www.steveswanguitars.com/items/rockbridge/new-rockbridge-radio-grande-12-fret-jumbo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I love vintage guitars as much as anyone, but for $25,000 I'd purchase a great piano, have all the bass note clarity I need and with the money I still have left I'd get a really good HD28v. I know it's not exactly what you are looking for, but that guitar has great clear bass for days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 BK/MJR- Yes, played and almost fell deep for an HD-28VS (slot head). The guitar's EQ was a little too heavy towards the bass side of things, though. I will try a 28V. Here went a D-18VS for a great price. There was a serious Martin phase for me years back, but the short scale G's more left-hand friendliness, and the singer-songwriter-y vocal-supporting quick decay sound won my ear. For a time. What the ear wants to hear is (hopefully) always evolving. MJR- Yeah, I just knew that $25K (ooh, $24K {now that's a bargain!}) number would be a target. Gary's pricing has always called out to collectors, "I got one, how bad do you want it?". Dave- that Rockbridge looks nice; but for some reason, on 12 frets in general, the shifting of the fretboard, soundhole &/or bridge down further into the lower bout changes the aesthetic of the guitar a bit, and a sunburst makes that visual effect a little less noticeable. A visit to Steve Swan's is, however, on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I agree about the aesthetic. That's what kept me from going after that Smeck that just sold on EBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Again, with the apples/oranges: here, two 1994 Gibson Roy Smeck Radio Grande (rosewood) reissues, the 'burst, from the photo library of guitars that have passed thru Folkway Music, and on the right, the natural finished one recently listed on eBay: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenverSteve Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 [size="3" Steve- sometimes it's more about the search, than the find ; ). The search I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phelonious Ponk Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Wow - the burst really does change the visual balance of that instrument. Without it, it looks...odd. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I had also been on a seemingly endless search for a deep body 12 fretter that would not empty the wallet. My journey took my on a completely different route. But that is another story for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hey 62burst, Head to the bank in the morning - look what just showed up at Gruhn: http://guitars.com/inventory/am7536-1939-recording-king-ray-whitley It has that same batman bridge that is on the '41 Sj100 reissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hey 62burst, Head to the bank in the morning - look what just showed up at Gruhn: http://guitars.com/inventory/am7536-1939-recording-king-ray-whitley It has that same batman bridge that is on the '41 Sj100 reissue. (Cue audible, subconscious sigh): That looks absolutely beautiful. I thought Gibson was not necessarily using Brazilian back then, but the back on that one is stunning. Pretty bad when a listing at Gruhn undercuts a Gary's listing by $2K. :). The Fall Philly show (Gary Burnette/ Bee-3 Vintage) is this weekend. Usually the fall show is more hopping. I don't know if I have it in me, though. GAS reaches the saturation point in less than two hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 It's not just scarcity that makes the rosewood Gibson-built Recording King Ray Whitley so valuable. The late John Fahey used one to record America and Fare Forward Voyagers, among other albums. The RKRW, along with the Bacon & Day Senorita acoustic and a Weissenborn lap steel are the vintage guitars most closely associated with him. His at one point looked much worse - he apparently smashed it in a rage. Fortunately, somebody saved the pieces, and years later it was restored and used by Peter Lang to record a tribute to Fahey. http://www.parachodelnorte.com/RKResurrection.htm http://www.parachodelnorte.com/AGRKArticle.htm I haven't been able to find Fare Forward Voyagers on any of the streaming services, but it IS up, and complete, on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nby7DoM8rE - and it is WELL worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 R'Strings- Thank you for bringing John Fahey into the discussion of this rare bird (bat?)- it gave the chance to read a little (nice Wiki entry), and to listen a little on how John and his music fit into the fabric of the music of the day. Also- quite the story, the resurrection of his old rosewood Recording King jumbo. Although with 150 cleats/24 major cracks, this former basket case is more about the gray area that those who say they don't sentimentalize guitars prefer to avoid: John invested a lot of himself into that guitar, and it's rebirth is one way friends were able to honor his memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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