L5Larry Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 For anyone considering a full body archtop, the first decision you have to make is ELECTRIC or ACOUSTIC. An acoustic archtop is a VERY DIFFERENT animal than an electric archtop. ANY archtop with holes cut in the soundboard for pickups IS an electric guitar, don't expect it to have much of an acoustic voice. There is additional bracing required due to the pickup cutouts, plus the holes themselves, and then screw a few pounds of pickups to the soundboard, and you have effectively killed the acoustic voice of the instrument. They are virtually useless as an "acoustic" guitar, they are meant to be plugged in. On the other hand, an archtop, even with a "floating" pickup system, whether pickguard mounted or fingerboard mounted, is STILL an acoustic guitar. The acoustic integrity of the guitar is uncompromised. They will maintain their loud full acoustic voice, AND a "floating" pickup system will have a very different plugged-in sound than top-mounted pickup equipped instrument. Any acoustic archtop can be fitted with a floating pickup system for $100-$200. Kent Armstrong makes what has become the industry standard in pickguard and fingerboard mounted "floating" archtop pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 For something rather unique on today's market: GUILD A-150 SAVOY (blond or sunburst): -Arched and X-braced solid spruce top. -Laminated figured maple back & sides. -Floating DeArmond pickup. Had to have one, as it reminded me of a Gibson-made Wards archtop I used to own from the 1930s (which also sported a solid spruce top & X-bracing). Very satisfied with both the natural acoustic tone, and the single-coil tone of the pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Good GAS to have... ... Personal 'archtop' experience runs from ex ES 165 Herb Ellis through to current stable... Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin...Ebony single neck P90... ...about right for the price Made in Canada from press-formed solid wood...quite lightweight and bright sounding...haven't played it in a while... :blink: Quite responsive and could handle jazz if required...refreshing alternative to the relentless Oriental alternatives... Peerless New York...a very laudable D'Angelico inspired Korean made 17" archtop... Peerless are well respected and have made guitars for Gretsch and Epiphone in the past Eastman make some good carved solid wood archtops...probably the cheapest on the market, well finished and worth consideration Personal favourite archtop is the Gibson ES 330/ Epiphone Casino for it's easy ergonomics and 'versatile' tone palette... If budget is a bit tight....there are options to source a low cost archtop and then fit one of the many superb hand-wound pickups from specialists like Seymour Duncan, Kent Armstrong or maybe just a good ol' P90... Enjoy the chase.... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 For anyone considering a full body archtop, the first decision you have to make is ELECTRIC or ACOUSTIC. An acoustic archtop is a VERY DIFFERENT animal than an electric archtop. ANY archtop with holes cut in the soundboard for pickups IS an electric guitar, don't expect it to have much of an acoustic voice. There is additional bracing required due to the pickup cutouts, plus the holes themselves, and then screw a few pounds of pickups to the soundboard, and you have effectively killed the acoustic voice of the instrument. They are virtually useless as an "acoustic" guitar, they are meant to be plugged in. On the other hand, an archtop, even with a "floating" pickup system, whether pickguard mounted or fingerboard mounted, is STILL an acoustic guitar. The acoustic integrity of the guitar is uncompromised. They will maintain their loud full acoustic voice, AND a "floating" pickup system will have a very different plugged-in sound than top-mounted pickup equipped instrument. Any acoustic archtop can be fitted with a floating pickup system for $100-$200. Kent Armstrong makes what has become the industry standard in pickguard and fingerboard mounted "floating" archtop pickups. indeed. having both a regent (floating pup) and a broadway (2 mounted pickups) there is definitely a difference acoustically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Larry is the definitive answer, but as has been mentioned, individual preferences come into play too. For example, were Gibson to offer me an L5 or a 175, I personally have to go with the 175. I prefer the smaller body; I get a wide range of sounds etc. I'll add that I'm not "typical" in that all my archtops wear variations of 9-42 strings. The reviews on the new Epiphone Premium ES175 supposedly with Gibson pups, but a matte finish, have overall been good from folks "here" on the Gibson boards. This may be the red one seen. I could almost go for it at the lesser price tag of the red version. In fact, I'm kinda conflicted on it. It's not like I don't have nice archtops that "fit." http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/epiphone-es-175-premium-hollowbody-electric-guitar/j07387000002000 I'm not the "real" kind of archtop player as Larry. I fingerpick my old '70s Ibanez copy of the ES175 that seems to me, and I've been told by others, is "better" than the Gibsons of the era, and also technically one of those "Patent Infringement" instruments. As nearly as I can tell, it's basically a Gibson clone MIJ. Frankly I doubt I'd swap it for a brand new 175. It's that good for what I do. I play some fat chords, but mostly I'm doing anything from "cowboy" to jazz/pop/rock standards, often with vocals, etc. Just changing technique a bit gives a huge range of sound without even touching the electonics. On the other hand, I haven't been impressed by later Ibanez offerings - and don't ask me why. It's a matter somehow of "feel." I also got an Eastman 1-pup 175 copy. It's very nice; I've played it out mostly because of winter temps and not wanting to haul the old box around in that kind of weather. Works well. Plays very nicely. I'm leaving out my 24" scale '50s Harmony that I played a lot through the '70s since there's nothing like it today... and it has a baseball bat neck. The Gretsch C100ce is a very nice archtop in the price range. Floating single pup. My only objection is the 25 1/2 inch scale that brings a bit of left hand technique change for me. Matte finish black or natural. I've played it "out" several times doing more the folkie-bluesie material I've played since I started picking. And it's most resistant of my archtops to significant "wintertime climate change." I stop noticing the Gretsch-type neck within 30 seconds and except for the longer scale at lower chord positions, plays quite nicely for the dollar. It is a bit heavier on the bass side amped. All of these have the 16-inch body. All but the Gretsch the shorter scale. I also looked seriously at the Epi Joe Pass that's also a 16-inch body and short scale. So... my preferences unquestionably are 16-inch body, ES 175 proportions, short scale, relatively flat fingerboard at roughly 1.7 nut width. Were all of mine to "go," I think I'd very, very seriously look at the Epi 175 Premium or a Gibbie 175. There may be something better at the Epi price range, but "better" regardless is pretty subjective - especially if it has Gibbie pups. But I'd have no less than a full, long day's drive one way to play even one 175 in a store... so it ain't in the plan. Again... I think after one has been picking a long time, even doing many types and styles of music, there will be certain preferences that may not even make sense, but somehow make a guitar seem to help one's playing. I'll never criticize someone else's choice, especially if they've had the playing hours in to offer themselves sufficient experience to validate their own preferences. For example, though, give me a $7,000 super fancy Les Paul, it'd either sit in a case or go into a wall-hanger display. It's just not "my" kind of guitar. A super-nice SG likely would get a lot of play, but not as much as a couple of my archtops or a couple small-body flattops. Dunno if any of that makes a lot of sense. There's something about the Godins that just doesn't trip my trigger just looking at them, and I freely admit that's awfully unfair and . Just, "no thanks." Their scale, I think, is a tad longer, too, the nut a tad wider. All kidding aside, I think there's something more special about full archtops that appeals to a certain sort of guitarist that may make no real logical case for such an instrument. They just, to those players, "feel right." Since I live in the boonies and have a personal rule not to spend more than around $500 US without playing a guitar, I see nothing better in the general price range than the two Epis unless one prefers a longer scale, then the Gretsch is awfully nice at the price, ditto the Eastman. Some like the Loar imitation 175s that also are in the price range. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I was under the impression that Godin was made in Korea with wood shipped over from Canada and then they shipped them back for a once over before sale. Is this incorrect? Also, what's your price range and do you want a big body electric or an acoustic arch top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 For something rather unique on today's market: GUILD A-150 SAVOY (blond or sunburst): -Arched and X-braced solid spruce top. -Laminated figured maple back & sides. -Floating DeArmond pickup. Had to have one, as it reminded me of a Gibson-made Wards archtop I used to own from the 1930s (which also sported a solid spruce top & X-bracing). Very satisfied with both the natural acoustic tone, and the single-coil tone of the pickup. A couple of additional points about the Guild referenced above: > It is a full acoustic with a cutaway. > Scale length is 24-3/4, rosewood fingerboard. > It is manufactured in Korea as part of the Newark St series. An online reviewer states that poly finish is applied to the interior. This is not true of mine (made in 2014), so perhaps his was an early example. The exterior finish is poly as opposed to nitro. Very high build quality overall, with excellent fretwork and a rather fast feeling low-profile neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 If D'Armond ain't changed that much from the mid '60s, I used that pup - albeit with the "screw onto the strings behind the bridge" device and the control box with volume and tone. No idea where it disappeared to over the past nearly 50 years. It worked quite well on an old acoustic archtop. The price tag on the Guild is just more than I'll spend sight unseen or guitar unplayed. It also has the 17" body that's more than I prefer. Folks may want to check also at archtop.com for ideas. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevDavidLee Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 With that in mind, I actually think that at about $300.00 USD more the D'Angelico EXL-1 can't be beat. And the price includes a nice case as well. The guitar is beautiful to look it, it's unique tailpiece design is quite similar to frequensator in its performance, with its bass strings further from the bridge and nut for extra low response, and the guitar has tone coming out its wazoo. It plays like a dream, And with flatwound strings it can sting like a hornet or be as sweetly soft as a lullaby. It features a single floating humbucker so that unlike so many other arch tops, there is no extra hole cut for mounting the pick up, and your tone and volume controls are mounted on your pick guard so no extra holes are cut into its body for those either. In that way it truly is much more of am amplified acoustic, rather than a true electric guitar. When I first got mine I was worried about the oversized headstock being heavy and therefore being tiring in a long performance setting.48 hours after getting mine I brought to an outdoor gig for a 5 hour workout and never once felt fatigued. I play mine through an acoustic guitar amp which pulls even more of the 'wood' tone from the guitar. The guitar is manufactured in Korea, and the company offers direct email for customer service. I have written them a few times with service questions and have received direct replies from their head luthier each time within 4 hours of my writing. Good luck whichever way you go! I couldn't agree more about the D'Angelico EXL-1. I bought mine about a year ago and it's purely wonderful to play To the OP - I have no experience with the guitar brand you're looking at. Sorry :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well, in fact my dream jazzbox is the ES-175. I never even played one, Gibson or Epiphone! Just heard it's tone here and there, and it's just the perfect tone I can think of. Of any guitar! I am like a driver after a car accident, having bad experiences with Epiphones, I am bit afraid of them. Also, the budget is tight. Still stacking pennies for that wonderful Palmer amp... What a problems I have... :D Cheers... Bence Hi Bence, I have had the same GAS for about 2 years now and have tried out a lot of the guitars mentioned by all on this list. While I haven't bought anything to cure my gas yet, I think I have determined what my top choice is to cure it. My thoughts below. 1) Of all the choices, I think the mojo and tone of a vintage Gibson ES-150 wins for me hands-down. Considering these were basically sold as student models for many, many, many years, there are a lot of them out there and the prices are typically between $1000 - $1800 USD. There are a few different models and if you start looking around, you may be surprised what you can find. Did I mention they made these for many, many years? 2) I typically walk by the Epiphone's too, but the new ES-175s they're making are quite nice at around $800. I've checked out several and they sound and play great. Build quality is pretty good, but I have seen some funny finishing at the neck joint. As long as you inspect the one you would get it could be a good choice. OTOH, I've seen some nice used Gibson 175's selling in the $1200 range so moving into a used one of these would be a preferred choice for me. 3) The Godins are real nice. They actually make several models of this guitar in many finishes and with different electronics. There is a Godin dealer across town from me and I saw higher end models of this guitar into the $2000 range. The single P90 pickup version of this guitar was what started my gas, same as you. 4) Loar makes a some nice models that are more vintage looking than the Godin, but reviews indicate hit-and-miss quality as they're built in China. Good luck with your search. Perhaps you need to buy a few since you can never really have enough guitars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I forgot to mention the 'Charlie Christian' pickup.... For many the 'holy grail' of jazz pickups used by Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel et al In effect, the first jazz guitar pickup....fitted to the ES 150 in mid 1930's Now reproduced as exactly as possible by a few specialist winders And in 'thinline' format to allow fitment to solids like Telecaster etc V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I guess I don't consider a thinline, even full hollow, as an "archtop. Then again, I'm just a grouchy old man. Someone noted that the 330/Casino is easily handled and frankly, to me it's not any easier than a 335/Epi Dot. OTOH, the 175 and similar size full depth guitars seem almost to play themselves for me... To me the fact is that "easy ergonomics" are quite personal. At my tallest I was a hair under 5-10. But my arms are shorter than average - even a 32" sleeve in U.S. size shirts is a bit too long. Add to that, my "hold" on a guitar probably dates back to a start with classical/flamenco guitar and technique. So... added together and I figure the basic dimensions of the 175 simply are the best "fit" for me. Others, obviously to me anyway, will have very different preferences for one reason or another. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well, in fact my dream jazzbox is the ES-175. I never even played one, Gibson or Epiphone! Just heard it's tone here and there, and it's just the perfect tone I can think of. Of any guitar! Cheers... Bence Hi Bence! So it MUST be a 175 of some sort. Never mind anything else as you would get it but really still want a 175. They are very friendly guitars as you will find when you try one out. I eventually got one in 2013 - the GAS for it was always there. Come see and play it if you ever get over here....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vangoghsear Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 A friend of mine has the Godin 2 pickup Kingpin model. Sounds great plugged in, nice woodsy electric tones. He uses it to play leads in a largely acoustic guitar based group, he figures it fits in well and it does. That said, I've tried several of these at music stores because I love the look of them and cannot find one that sounds and feels good to me when I play it. I ended up buying the cheapest Ibanez full hollow they make, an AF-55 and that thing sings acoustically and plugged in. Great tones for a cheap guitar. I currently have GAS for their solid Spruce top hollowbody the Artstar SS300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 All I'll add is that with a decent guitar well set up, after a certain point regardless of any other factor, some guitars will simply feel right and others won't. I think that's more true of archtops in general, especially if, as Larry mentioned, one knows whether one's buying an electrified acoustic or an electric guitar. Good luck in finding one that touches you. Brand... looks... naaah. If it helps you play, it's a good choice. But again, don't forget that strings, style of playing, etc., play a big role in that "helps you play." That old guitar in my avatar sat in its case basically unopened for right at 25 years. Now... if you want it, best bring a U.S. Marine rifle squad, 'cuz money won't do it. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hi Bence! So it MUST be a 175 of some sort. Never mind anything else as you would get it but really still want a 175. They are very friendly guitars as you will find when you try one out. I eventually got one in 2013 - the GAS for it was always there. Come see and play it if you ever get over here....... Hello Jdgm! Yes, that's the plain truth. Everytime I listed to an ES-175, I feel, that's it! The ultimate tone I am seeking. Of course, I know it's more likely the result of who's playing it, but that sound character is what I'd like achieve. But a Gibson ES-175 is over my budget, yet. Also, after reading and listening to reviews, I understood that I know so little about these instruments. I won't rush with buying, I shouldn't. I looked at Ibanezes - beautiful instruments with a very nice price, but - somehow - their ES-175 copy seems to me too bright-sounding. It's not the sound character I heard from Gibson's original. I will explore other (affordable) brands, as time allows. A big thank You to everyone who commented! Thank You for the education. Now, I really understood it's an entirely different world to solid-bodied guitars I am familiar with. I need to play a whole bunch of guitars to understand (feel) the differences, or at least to become able to evaluate such an instrument before buying anything. Best wishes... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hello! Just checked out the Epiphone Emperor II Joe Pass...well on Youtube. Not a great way to evaluate, anyways, let's assume it as a first step. The great Greg Koch. Brilliant player. The instrument is very nice, but... ...on the neck pickup, it sounds very much like my Les Paul Classic Custom! I was very surprised of that! The bridge pickup that made a big difference. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A very interesting thread, as it would inevitably be...on the subject of jazz guitars... IMO one question to ask is 'plectrum or finger-style?'...which may influence choice of guitar Another observation is that Joe Pass spent time playing Fender Jazzmaster and Jaguar guitars The ES 175 has been played by many of the greats... Wes Montgomery Joe Pass Jim Rainey Jim Hall Herb Ellis George Benson V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hello V! A couple of hints... Plectrums always (plastic .84 mm, or 2 mm brass), I can't do finger-picking. Played through all-tube amp (12AX7 pre-, EL34 power-tubes). EP Booster and analog reverb. That is my concept about it, now. My playing style's main features are: jazzy inverted, or slighly dissonant chords/arpeggios with diatonic rolling-scales. :D Wow! I am surprised, how many of You are interested about this topic. :) Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B. Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Bence, Now that you are most likely totally confused by all the types out there let me offer what may or may not be of some assistance in choosing. Check out the Jazz Guitar Forum. A site specifically suited for Jazz application. It is free and there is a world of info available on everything from the perfect pick (plectrum) to guitars new and used. Alot of Jazz pros hang out there as well. Take a bit of time to look around and you will come across an article on "which Jazz guitar to buy" It will either help or just add to the confusion. For me it was a help. there is even an article on the perfect Jazz amp and which semi-hollow body for under XXXX$. The "for sale" section has a boat load of guitars listed from reasonably priced, (under $1000) to items for the extreme collector. I spent a lot of time reading old listings and posts and articles there before dropping the hammer. Both on my archtop and my semi-hollow. Like here you'll get every possible opinion, equally as helpful, just a bit more focused. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thank You, Al! Good advice! I'll also, spend some time in shops, and play them myself. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Each time I ran into an Epiphone ES-175 Premium last year I wanted to hate it, I looked for problems, I expected to put it down and walk quickly away. That didn't happen, and I ended up with a black one. My very first full hollowbody guitar in 40 odd years of playing. I love that thing. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hello Rct! Would be lovely to try it out too. Unfortunately, they are not available locally... Anyways, not in a hurry. I hope, it will pop-up in one of the local shops. Thank You... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B. Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Hello Rct! Would be lovely to try it out too. Unfortunately, they are not available locally... Anyways, not in a hurry. I hope, it will pop-up in one of the local shops. Thank You... Bence Forgot to mention, and just to add to the miasma.....There is a shop in New Jersey called Guitars N' Jazz, (yes I know it's a bit out of reach), that has one of the best selections of middle to upper range Jazz guitar inventory around. The proprietor, Lou, can be very helpful and is most knowledgeable on the subject. Check out their website to take a look at what is available and get an idea of pricing. There is also a gent in the U.K. that goes by the moniker "archtopheaven" on the JGF forum I mentioned earlier who could help you in locating the guitar of your dreams over on your side of the pond. He is in the U.K. Still a bit of the wet stuff inbetween but not nearly as much as the first gent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromnabulax Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The ES 175 has been played by many of the greats... Wes Montgomery Joe Pass Jim Rainey Jim Hall Herb Ellis George Benson V HEY! You forgot to add me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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