Jesse_Dylan Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I thought, wow, no one is replying to anything. And then I came on here and there were lots of replies. I checked my spam folder. Nothing. Hmm. Anyway, for those of you folks who have owned a guitar with the Kluson-type reproduction tuners, what do you honestly think of them? I know Gibson gets them from several different companies, so maybe they vary. My honest opinion... They seem really cheap and junky. They look cool, but they do not work well. These on my Hummingbird Vintage are the first I've owned, and frankly they kind of let the whole guitar down. Sure they look "cool" with the treatment to make them look older than they are... I guess... but you'd think they did a treatment to make them work like they're older than they are, too. There is a lot of slip, they range from tight to loose, don't hold tune all that well, click and pop and stick... Come on. The much-hated Grover Rotomatics on my M-36 have worked flawlessly for years, and the Grover Rotomatic Minis on my J-15 are similarly fantastic. And the open-back Grover Sta-tites on my 7-28 are great. Maybe Gibson should have gotten Grover to make their cheap Kluson repros instead. Okay, so I guess I gave my honest opinion... They function in a manner that is far from on-par with the rest of my guitar. I think the standard Grovers on the standard Hummingbird are better and probably cost more. I've got some keystone tulip button Schaller Grand Tunes on order from Germany (!) in vintage copper. Should be perfect. They're open-back, but no one sees the back of the headstock but me anyway. Only caveat is that I have to take my guitar to the shop to get the tuners put on. It will no longer be "original," but I don't think I care. This is a lifetime guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Kluson-style machine heads imprinted "GIBSON DELUXE" on their nickel gear housing came stock and still are on three of my Gibson solidbodies. One Gibson USA Les Paul came with a set having sleeve nuts, one Gibson Custom Les Paul has some with sleeve nuts, too, and another Gibson Custom Les Paul features a set with sleeves pressed into the peghead. All of them Kluson style tuners work perfectly. I wished the lots of contemporary stock Grover machine heads, partly plain, partly locking, on others of my Gibsons could keep up with the Klusons or old Grovers, but sadly they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I've don't recall ever having any issues with Klusons. I've heard a lot of folks gripe and complain about them at times, but they seem to work well for me. Of course, I'm a guy who has never seen all the glaring and horrible factory defects people on other forums claim that Gibsons have. Likewise never known anyone who had a Taylor that exploded. I like Martins too, aside from too many of them have a generic look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
father_of_pearl Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I have to admit, though the Rotomatics look plain wrong on a Gibson (they're huge, ugly and are way too heavy) they look ok on my Martins and work much better than the Kluson-like tuners I have on my J45TV and my HB TV. I'm not a fan of the artificially aged look of those on the 2016 Vintage series and I too find they don't hold tune well. I used to own 2 AJ's with the open back butterbean Grover Statites, they were very functionnal and they sure look cool. Without going the Waverly route (which are found on some models like the SC SJ), there must be a way in between. I think TonePros are making great reproductions under the Kluson licence. But really, the Rotomatics on a slope Gibby, a HB standard or even a ES 335 look wrong and cheap IMHO. I'd rather pay $100 more for a good-looking and functionnal set of tuners on a new Gibby than $1000 more for a terrified-hyde-glooo-new-vintage-glossss-finish-adirrrrondack-topped guitar ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I agree on the Rotomatics being good tuners. Maybe they gave a cheaper, foreign made line, but I haven't seen or used them. To me, they don't look odd or out of place on a "vintage" Gibby, because often times (more often than not), we would replace the tuners. In fact, it seems kind of odd to me at times that some would REMOVE the upgraded tuners in order to "restore" something. As for the "Kluson" tuners, they aren't what they used to be. Kluson is long out of business, and the so-called "Kluson" refers to a type of tuner, a design. A style. Naturally. made to LOOK the same, but they are usually much better. Having said that, I am aware of more than one maker of Klusons, and some are not good quality. But some, like the ones made by GOTOH, are of really high quality. I don't know what Gibson is using on what these days. I can say this: I have had guitars from "back when" that had really good tuner "upgrades", Grover, Schaller, etc. And since they have come out with the repro Klusons, I have had a number of newer (with a grain of vintage salt) guitars (including a Gibson) that had these repro Klusons, and they leave nothing to be desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Both my Gibson's came stock with Tonepros Kluson tuners, they work perfectly. I don't know for sure but I think Gibson used them on 13 and 14 models, sadly they are discontinued now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 The rotomatics are staying on my D35. They work great, and as the D35 is a "newer" guitar model, I even think they are period correct. Check out Grover 135N's. I replaced the rotos on my Hummingbird with those, and they work great. You won't have "aged tuners", but you will get over that. Just be sure to save those original tuners if you ever sell the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Posto Doble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Anyway, for those of you folks who have owned a guitar with the Kluson-type reproduction tuners, what do you honestly think of them? I know Gibson gets them from several different companies, so maybe they vary. My honest opinion... They seem really cheap and junky. We discussed this at some length in a thread I started when replacing the tuners on my 1965 J-50. WD Music Products now owns the Kluson trademark, so I think they are the only ones who can legally user that name today. See this: http://www.wdmusic.com/tuners_kluson.html The ones I bought are excellent, I am really impressed with them. They are far superior to the original 1965 Kluson tuners on my J-50. I spent quite a bit of time trying to recondition the originals and still didn't find them acceptable. Very stiff. I think the problem is that they don't have a high enough gear ratio and also appear to have been manufactured to pretty poor standards. I know some here may not agree, but that's my observation after comparing them. The original Kluson tuners on my 1974 J-50 were also terrible. I got that guitar new and hated the tuners from the first day. The reproductions are much better than these too. My guess is that it's possible to manufacture simple machines like this to higher specs with modern equipment. I guess they are made in China (?) and that keeps the price low. Anyway, after my experience I would not hesitate to get these "real" Kluson reproductions. You can get them directly from WD and Elderly also sells them (probably other vendors too). I actually found the specific style I wanted at an eBay store. The ones at Elderly had the pure white buttons but the ones I got had ivory buttons that looked better on the 1965 guitar. WD's website is kind of confusing with circular links that make it hard to find things. After ordering from eBay I later found the style I wanted directly on WD's site, however the eBay ones were the exact same thing and were a bit cheaper. The WD Klusons also come in a cool vintage style box. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Unless you have backlash, and also spots where the tuning of the key gets smoother and rougher, and little glitches here and there, you aren't getting the TRUE vintage experience anyway. And true vintage tone hounds know that tone is enhanced when effort has been made to get to pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin 1940D28 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I know this is not exactly what you, and many others would like to hear. I still have and play my 1957 ES, that I got brand new in '57 with the original Klusons on it, I admit I replaced the original crumbling buttons on it about 15 years ago with "Antique Acoustic" replacements. Original "Grover Rotomatics" on my '62 Martin D 28, also got brand new. Never, whatsoever a mechanical problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I have to admit, though the Rotomatics look plain wrong on a Gibson (they're huge, ugly and are way too heavy) Agree entirely with this. Gibson of late seem to use Grovers alot. My Kluson style'Gibson Deluxe" lasted 15 years, and I replaced them withg white knob TonePros, which are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 I know this is not exactly what you, and many others would like to hear. I still have and play my 1957 ES, that I got brand new in '57 with the original Klusons on it, I admit I replaced the original crumbling buttons on it about 15 years ago with "Antique Acoustic" replacements. Original "Grover Rotomatics" on my '62 Martin D 28, also got brand new. Never, whatsoever a mechanical problem. No, I'm okay hearing that. I have never really had much trouble with tuners before these ones (only on really cheap guitars). I think Grovers are really underrated. There was a time (1970?) when everyone was replacing their old open-back tuners with the brand new, closed-back, Grover Rotomatics. :) Now people are replacing those Grovers on the same guitars with Waverlies or whatever. Truth be told, I might prefer closed-back. I've got some Schaller Grand Tunes in Vintage Copper ordered (could take a few months!), and they are open back, but they have the Kluson-style tulip buttons. I should be good to go! Other than the fact that I need someone qualified to put them on for me. I guess I am just a little dismayed that Gibson would use kinda crummy tuners on such an upscale model when there were apparently pretty good Kluson-styles available. Maybe they really are designed to be period-correct! :) They do work like they're about 55 years old :) I really can't recall ever having tuner issues before except maybe with some Gotoh open-backs on a Martin (which I replaced with the hated Grover Sta-tites and was good to go) or on really cheap guitars. I'm not a fan of imported Chinese stuff, but other than that, I think Grovers are fantastic. I guess my new tuners are German, though, so I don't have much ground to stand on there! Waverly didn't make anything with tulip buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 IMO you get good and bad....I've had both. "Waffles" at 14:1 that were awful and "Waffles" that work great. My original 2002 rotomatics were toast after a few hard years. Went with Gotohs and have been impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I thought, wow, no one is replying to anything. And then I came on here and there were lots of replies. I checked my spam folder. Nothing. Hmm. Anyway, for those of you folks who have owned a guitar with the Kluson-type reproduction tuners, what do you honestly think of them? I know Gibson gets them from several different companies, so maybe they vary. My honest opinion... They seem really cheap and junky. They look cool, but they do not work well. These on my Hummingbird Vintage are the first I've owned, and frankly they kind of let the whole guitar down. Sure they look "cool" with the treatment to make them look older than they are... I guess... but you'd think they did a treatment to make them work like they're older than they are, too. There is a lot of slip, they range from tight to loose, don't hold tune all that well, click and pop and stick... Come on. The much-hated Grover Rotomatics on my M-36 have worked flawlessly for years, and the Grover Rotomatic Minis on my J-15 are similarly fantastic. And the open-back Grover Sta-tites on my 7-28 are great. Maybe Gibson should have gotten Grover to make their cheap Kluson repros instead. Okay, so I guess I gave my honest opinion... They function in a manner that is far from on-par with the rest of my guitar. I think the standard Grovers on the standard Hummingbird are better and probably cost more. I've got some keystone tulip button Schaller Grand Tunes on order from Germany (!) in vintage copper. Should be perfect. They're open-back, but no one sees the back of the headstock but me anyway. Only caveat is that I have to take my guitar to the shop to get the tuners put on. It will no longer be "original," but I don't think I care. This is a lifetime guitar. If they don't work properly, you should take the guitar back and get new tuners (that work) under warranty. That same warranty is probably voided by alterations. (A few years back, I got a Hummingbird copy to use as a beater and the tuners were installed upside down and around the wrong way! I got my local guitar tech to have a look and a laugh and he ordered and installed the Kluson Deluxes on it. Fantastic! The tuners are better than the guitar! He also did a nice set up - it was unplayable before, and he installed a DeArmond soundhole pickup I took off another guitar purchase. I played it last night acoustically and it sounded good - I picked it up because I downloaded a Hummingbird sound image to my Aura..among others and will try it later on.) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I replaced the stock, crap, tuners on my Eastman ET5-SS with TonePro Kluson tuners about three years ago. I shed about six ounces in weight right off the bat and they have been nothing but excellent performers. Smooth turning and they stay put. TonePro claims to have reworked the design once they acquired the rights but not having any experience with the earlier versions I can't speak to the claim. Of all the guitars I own however, the stock tulip button Kluson-appearing tuners on my J-185TV are the best on any of my guitars. But if the guitar is of a quality and I wanted to replace the tuners on it I would bite the bullet and go for Waverly's. I've never encountered a set of Waverly's I didn't like and they are not unnecessarily heavy to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Hopefully the Schaller Grand Tunes will be just as good. Supposed to be! Waverly didn't have anything with tulip buttons sadly. It sounds like I just got unlucky with these tuners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanp33 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Love the look of mine and have never had a problem. I have them on my LP studio as well and no issues there either. Maybe you just like grovers more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanp33 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Love the look of mine and have never had a problem. I have them on my LP studio as well and no issues there either. Maybe you just like grovers more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 We discussed this at some length in a thread I started when replacing the tuners on my 1965 J-50. WD Music Products now owns the Kluson trademark, so I think they are the only ones who can legally user that name today. See this: http://www.wdmusic.com/tuners_kluson.html The ones I bought are excellent, I am really impressed with them. They are far superior to the original 1965 Kluson tuners on my J-50. I spent quite a bit of time trying to recondition the originals and still didn't find them acceptable. Very stiff. I think the problem is that they don't have a high enough gear ratio and also appear to have been manufactured to pretty poor standards. I know some here may not agree, but that's my observation after comparing them. The original Kluson tuners on my 1974 J-50 were also terrible. I got that guitar new and hated the tuners from the first day. The reproductions are much better than these too. My guess is that it's possible to manufacture simple machines like this to higher specs with modern equipment. I guess they are made in China (?) and that keeps the price low. Anyway, after my experience I would not hesitate to get these "real" Kluson reproductions. You can get them directly from WD and Elderly also sells them (probably other vendors too). I actually found the specific style I wanted at an eBay store. The ones at Elderly had the pure white buttons but the ones I got had ivory buttons that looked better on the 1965 guitar. WD's website is kind of confusing with circular links that make it hard to find things. After ordering from eBay I later found the style I wanted directly on WD's site, however the eBay ones were the exact same thing and were a bit cheaper. The WD Klusons also come in a cool vintage style box. :) I remember that thread, but don't know where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlejohnny Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 As stated before, I love the kluson type tuners made by gotoh on my h'bird, They work and look great. I remember a thread where someone was complaining about aged tuners on his Aaron Lewis SJ (if I remember correctly). Maybe gibson **** up these nice tuners by the applied aging process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I remember that thread, but don't know where it is. This is the thread I mentioned: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/120095-new-tuners-for-my-65-j-50-adj/page__view__findpost__p__1634217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitan Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I posted on here that Schaller "Klusons" can actually come apart on an acoustic using a 54 or 56 bottom E string. This happened to me on a J200, a Hummingbird and a Dove. All have been replaced with Grovers. I was lucky enough to find 2 sets of Gibson Grovers (Grover Rotomatics with metal tulip heads)like Gibson used on the top - end models towards the end of the Kalamazoo days. The other set has the Kidney buttons.They all work perfectly & look just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 I posted on here that Schaller "Klusons" can actually come apart on an acoustic using a 54 or 56 bottom E string. This happened to me on a J200, a Hummingbird and a Dove. All have been replaced with Grovers. I was lucky enough to find 2 sets of Gibson Grovers (Grover Rotomatics with metal tulip heads)like Gibson used on the top - end models towards the end of the Kalamazoo days. The other set has the Kidney buttons.They all work perfectly & look just fine. Yikes! Are these the Schaller Grand Tunes with the keystone ("tulip") buttons? Or the straight up Schaller Kluson copies? I don't know about their previous stuff, but their Grand Tunes seem really solid to me, and these are just the same Grand Tunes, only with keystone buttons (the ones I ordered, I mean). I have had bad luck with some old Gotoh open-backs as well. You guys think my HBird "period-correct" are Gotoh also? Usually Gotoh gets such good reviews. I have used their closed-back before and they were perfect, but the open-backs I had did not work well, and these don't work well... I honestly don't even think I'm all that picky, but maybe. Just seems to slip quite a bit and like maybe the ratio is really low. I know it's not the guitar or the shorter scale, because the open-back 18:1 Grover Sta-tites on my 23" scale 7-28 work flawlessly. I've made my order (downpayment of half) from LMI, so if anything goes wrong, they've got my back. Good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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