daveinspain Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Many of you may know that I had been after an ES 175 for years and this past June on a trip home to Boston I finally picked one up. I was pretty stoked because I got a great deal on a new 59 historic model (new old stock because it was actually a 2014 model). It was a guitar that sat in Guitar Center for a couple years that I got at clearance price. The strings on it were a couple years old and it sounded a bit dead but I attributed that to the old strings. When I got the guitar home I put some flat wounds on it and played it like that for a while but it was still sounding dull and was rather stiff to play. I attributed that to the flat wounds. Last week I decided to put some regular 10s on it hoping to get the sound and feel I was looking for. After installing the new strings it sounded even duller and dead in some spots. So then I started looking at the set up. While inspecting the neck relief I notice the neck slopes downward at the 15th of 16th fret… Adjusting the truss rod seems to only affect the 2nd or 3rd fret to the 12th or 13th fret. I'm worried that the neck curving downward after the 15th fret may be a defect in manufacturing. Can anyone tell me if this is a normal thing on an ES 175. If not what can I do? Maybe the guitar sat in Guitar Center for so long because it had this problem? I have tried just about every combination of neck relief and bridge hight but can't get it to play and sound like an ES 175 should and I have played many of them over the years while I was looking for one. Please help, I'm staring to feel a bit let down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Do you mean the whole neck angles down at the 15th, or the fingerboard is higher on one side of a bump and lower on the other? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have the same guitar as you do (mine is the single p/u). My fretboard starts to fall off or slope downward after the 18 fret. This is how they are made. I set my neck as straight as I can get it. I use Thomastick 11 flat wounds on mine. One thing you will notice on this guitar is the neck is set at a greater angle slope than say a Les Paul, which is almost straight in comparison. When you adjust the truss, look to see if it looks even on both the bass side and treble side and there is not a neck twist. If they look the same, you are good. Then adjust the bridge height to get it playing right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 . Dull, dead spots - kinda sounds like that one has the Gibson neck "hump" - a bump above the neck joint. Fret leveling might solve it. If it's a big hump, the fretboard might have to be leveled. Wish you the best on this one. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Put Earnie Ball Slinkie Cobalt 10s on it to brighten it up. If you want it to feel less stiff put EB Cobalt 9s on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Do you mean the whole neck angles down at the 15th, or the fingerboard is higher on one side of a bump and lower on the other? rct I don't think the neck is twisted although I will have a closer look when I get home.., what happens is the finger board slopes down on the last few frets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 I have the same guitar as you do (mine is the single p/u). My fretboard starts to fall off or slope downward after the 18 fret. This is how they are made. I set my neck as straight as I can get it. I use Thomastick 11 flat wounds on mine. One thing you will notice on this guitar is the neck is set at a greater angle slope than say a Les Paul, which is almost straight in comparison. When you adjust the truss, look to see if it looks even on both the bass side and treble side and there is not a neck twist. If they look the same, you are good. Then adjust the bridge height to get it playing right. Ok, so that makes me feel better if that's how they are made... I'll try adjusting the neck as straight as possible and raise up the bridge... Hope I don't have the hump though or uneven frets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Use the binding of top of the guitar body as your edge. The tops on those guitars can vary, and that doesn't mean it is sunken or fallen, just that they are different. It may be the arch is more on yours and makes it look badly angled. If it's a fingerboard hump, rising toungue, or poorly place neck block, then you gotta problem. They are all physical problems it is hard to miss, and much more than just "dull" sounding, but they could still be missed. Some say the modern tops are thicker, meatier plys than of old, and sound duller unplugged. I'm not a jazzbo in any way, just happen to hang sometimes with a guy that fixes guitars, and archtops have problems similar to acoustics, and I've seen bunches of those problems in my life. It is more than likely illusion caused by the arch top. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Update, things are better, the guitar is playing much better but I do want to have a professional look at it anyway. I got the neck pretty straight except for where it slopes down around the 17th fret but I guess that's how they are made. I had to raise up the bridge and the action is higher than I'd like it but it's not a Les Paul, it's an arch top... When I get the guitar looked at I'll tell you what they say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Some say the modern tops are thicker, meatier plys than of old, and sound duller unplugged. This is a 59 historic model and suposidly constructed to the same specs used in 59.., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hope your luthier can get it straightened out for you Dave. That's a bummer :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hello Dave. More or less, all set-neck (Gibson) guitars are like that. The leveling takes care of that. The tenon joint renders the truss-rod ineffective in that area. Bence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hello Dave. More or less, all set-neck (Gibson) guitars are like that. The leveling takes care of that. The tenon joint renders the truss-rod ineffective in that area. Bence. Even more so on my guitar or on an ES 175... I can see the downward slop at the 18th fret but I have managed to get the neck pretty straight now adjusting the truss rod but because I had to raise the bridge the action is higher than I like... I'm gonna have a luthier look at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 While adjusting the truss rod, You may eventually find a setting that is the best. Leveling takes care of the rest. When the time for the refretting comes, the luthier should level the fretboard too. Bence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 While adjusting the truss rod, You may eventually find a setting that is the best. Leveling takes care of the rest. When the time for the refretting comes, the luthier should level the fretboard too. Bence. The guitar is bran new, shouldn't need leveling at all but ill certainly have a look at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I really hope this works out for you, Dave. I have bought a few guitars that took me several weeks to really evaluate. I've had bad experiences buying Gibsons from GC, and all involve neck issues... enough that I'll never buy another Gibson or another guitar from GC. But I've also found that professional technicians can solve many issues that I thought were unrepairable. That's why, when I buy a new guitar, I will take it immediately to my local luthier for a setup. Usually they can tell me in short order if there are irreconcilable issues in a new instrument. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I really hope this works out for you, Dave. I have bought a few guitars that took me several weeks to really evaluate. I've had bad experiences buying Gibsons from GC, and all involve neck issues... enough that I'll never buy another Gibson or another guitar from GC. But I've also found that professional technicians can solve many issues that I thought were unrepairable. That's why, when I buy a new guitar, I will take it immediately to my local luthier for a setup. Usually they can tell me in short order if there are irreconcilable issues in a new instrument. Good luck. GC has a 30 day return policy so if you discover a problem within that period you can get a refund. A brand new Gibson also comes with a warrantee that would cover a defective guitar. Still sucks though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 GC has a 30 day return policy so if you discover a problem within that period you can get a refund. A brand new Gibson also comes with a warrantee that would cover a defective guitar. Still sucks though! Yes, and eventually I got an ES-335 that was satisfactory. How is that going to help Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 1471439416[/url]' post='1792124']I really hope this works out for you, Dave. I have bought a few guitars that took me several weeks to really evaluate. I've had bad experiences buying Gibsons from GC, and all involve neck issues... enough that I'll never buy another Gibson or another guitar from GC. But I've also found that professional technicians can solve many issues that I thought were unrepairable. That's why, when I buy a new guitar, I will take it immediately to my local luthier for a setup. Usually they can tell me in short order if there are irreconcilable issues in a new instrument. Good luck. I've heard lots of guys that hate GC. Here and on Facebook. I've only bought 3 guitars from them but didn't know about the neck problems. One of the 3 guitars I bought there was a 12 string. Actually I got it from my wife for Christmas and it seemed to have a problem playing it between the 8th and 12th fret. 6th to 4th strings sounded ok in that area while the 3rd to 1st strings sounded dead. Since their was a 3 year warranty on it I let it go and changed strings on it and that seemed to help a little. Finall it got worse and I took it in. The guy checked it out and the neck was bent so he adjusted the truss rod. Didn't help so he checked the neck and it was twisted too. It was going to get sent back when we made a deal I would take a brand new replacement in the store? This one plays like a dream. Last one I bought was from Dietz and I think they have better prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 GC has a 30 day return policy so if you discover a problem within that period you can get a refund. A brand new Gibson also comes with a warrantee that would cover a defective guitar. Still sucks though! while this is true, for our brother Dave, logistically very tricky. he bought the guitar when he was visiting boston... then he went back home... to spain... tuff situation all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 GC has a 30 day return policy so if you discover a problem within that period you can get a refund. A brand new Gibson also comes with a warrantee that would cover a defective guitar. Still sucks though! while this is true, for our brother Dave, logistically very tricky. he bought the guitar when he was visiting boston... then he went back home... to spain... tuff situation all around. Apparently there's a place called AFJ Custom Guitars in Valencia that is an authorized Gibson repair center. I'm guessing that if you went to an authorized repair center and had them declare the guitar is defective, Gibson could take it from there? I'm not suggesting that this isn't an unnecessary burden, but Dave should be covered by the warranty on his new Gibson if the neck is defective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 yea, I think that's a good avenue, hopefully he can get this resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Dave, I think the best advice is to take the guitar to the authorized Gibson repair center for reasons written above. I wish L5Larry were "listening," since I think of him as the real pro on archtops. But my experience is that the 175 isn't really an acoustic guitar. The laminate is one reason, the body size another. The single pup versions with the neck pickup will sound a bit dull compared to something like an LP amped, although again, there are different ways to set the controls even on the single pup and amp for a pretty wide variation in sound. Then again, I'm the rebellious type who uses 9-42 and pretty low action on my 175-type/size archtops and I'm really only worried about the action being clean up to around the 10th, max 12th fret since functionally I'm playing it as though it were a classical guitar with both left and right hand technique. (Hmmmmm.... I've got to get back to it after a year hiatus thanks to a stroke that messed up left side/hand control.) Too, technique IMHO is different on an archtop. Frankly I think of it in approach closer to a classical guitar than an acoustic or even solidbody. That works for me; it may or may not for you. The advantage of a luthier experienced with this type of guitar is that if he/she watches you play as well as checking the instrument for any "nasties," a setup can be made to match technique and musical style better. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Dave, I think the best advice is to take the guitar to the authorized Gibson repair center for reasons written above. I wish L5Larry were "listening," since I think of him as the real pro on archtops. But my experience is that the 175 isn't really an acoustic guitar. The laminate is one reason, the body size another. The single pup versions with the neck pickup will sound a bit dull compared to something like an LP amped, although again, there are different ways to set the controls even on the single pup and amp for a pretty wide variation in sound. Then again, I'm the rebellious type who uses 9-42 and pretty low action on my 175-type/size archtops and I'm really only worried about the action being clean up to around the 10th, max 12th fret since functionally I'm playing it as though it were a classical guitar with both left and right hand technique. (Hmmmmm.... I've got to get back to it after a year hiatus thanks to a stroke that messed up left side/hand control.) Too, technique IMHO is different on an archtop. Frankly I think of it in approach closer to a classical guitar than an acoustic or even solidbody. That works for me; it may or may not for you. The advantage of a luthier experienced with this type of guitar is that if he/she watches you play as well as checking the instrument for any "nasties," a setup can be made to match technique and musical style better. m Great advice Milod I will do that... BTW, Great to hear from you... How are you getting on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Apparently there's a place called AFJ Custom Guitars in Valencia that is an authorized Gibson repair center. I'm guessing that if you went to an authorized repair center and had them declare the guitar is defective, Gibson could take it from there? I'm not suggesting that this isn't an unnecessary burden, but Dave should be covered by the warranty on his new Gibson if the neck is defective. I know that shop... They were the ones that assembled my gold top project guitar.,, They are the best around for sure... Slow as hell but if your not in a rush worth the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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