A failed experiment with my J-35....

[dhanners623]

Wanting to spruce up my new J-35, I ordered some new bridgepins from StewMac to replace the plastic ones that come on the guitar. I got a set of Waverly pins made of Galalith, which the StewMac website describes as "a dense and durable casein-based material that polishes beautifully." I didn't want to spring for bone. The pins arrived today and, indeed, they looked sharp. Fit into the holes without any trouble.

 

But boy howdy when I tuned the guitar back up to pitch, the brightness jumped out and smacked me in the face. In fact, it was just way too bright, almost to the point of being brittle. I didn't really like the change. Wound up taking them out.

 

Anybody have any luck with a particular type of bridgepin on a J-35? I string mine with D'Addario EJ-17 mediums, if that makes any difference.

[62burst]

That's not too surprising to hear, David. Many folks are fast to jump on the "bone saddle and pins" program when they get a new Gibson, but ironically, the cheap plastic pins work pretty damn well. And lately (with a little help from those on this forum), I've come to the realization that those pedestrian Gibson-supplied Masterbuilt strings that come on it are pretty good, too.

[MissouriPicker]

There are a gazillion opinions on changing pins, tuners, and so on. Naturally, it all depends on what one thinks they are hearing. Speaking for myself: if a guitar sounds good, feels good, is very playable when I buy it (and I wouldn't buy it to start with if it didn't at least have these attributes), why would I want to change it? I get the urge to buy bone this-and-that, hopefully better tuners, etc., but assuming the guitar is what we want to start with, why change it? Besides, there is nothing carved-in-stone that says bone from a mastodon or Moby **** or whatever is going to make one's J45 or D35 sound better or even as good as what Gibson/Martin/Taylor/etc. designed it with. Just my view. Doesn't necessarily make me right and someone else wrong.

[OldCowboy]

Haven't had the honor of owning a J-35, sorry to say, but have tried a variety of pins with my guitars. What you describe might respond well to ebony pins. If you're looking for a less bright response, my experience has been that Tusque pins lean in that direction, and combined with Tusque bridge saddle and nut you'll have the true mashed potato response. Brass pins can be rather bright, bone can go either way - might depend whether the donor had high density bone cells or whether or not the pins are bleached or unbleached. Fossil mammoth ivory pins are absolutely magic, as far as I'm concerned, but their cost is nearly prohibitive. I tried a set of John Pearse faux-tortoise pins and wasn't especially impressed with them on any of my guitars until I tried them on my Epiphone EJ- 200 'beater' where they're doing very nicely. Another possibility for you might be buffalo horn - they don't have too much effect on brightness, but they look great.

[OldCowboy]

There are a gazillion opinions on changing pins, tuners, and so on. Naturally, it all depends on what one thinks they are hearing. Speaking for myself: if a guitar sounds good, feels good, is very playable when I buy it (and I wouldn't buy it to start with if it didn't at least have these attributes), why would I want to change it? I get the urge to buy bone this-and-that, hopefully better tuners, etc., but assuming the guitar is what we want to start with, why change it? Besides, there is nothing carved-in-stone that says bone from a mastodon or Moby **** or whatever is going to make one's J45 or D35 sound better or even as good as what Gibson/Martin/Taylor/etc. designed it with. Just my view. Doesn't necessarily make me right and someone else wrong.

When it comes to new guitars, I fully agree. With vintage and/or simply well-played instruments, I like to experiment a bit. Sometimes the results are fine and what I hear is an enhancement to what I believe is the direction the instrument has taken. There are exceptions. My '78 Guild and '57 Epi thrive on plastic.

[OldCowboy]

That's not too surprising to hear, David. Many folks are fast to jump on the "bone saddle and pins" program when they get a new Gibson, but ironically, the cheap plastic pins work pretty damn well. And lately (with a little help from those on this forum), I've come to the realization that those pedestrian Gibson-supplied Masterbuilt strings that come on it are pretty good, too.

I've never been able to connect with fancy strings and always feel a bit embarrassed when people are talking about them. It's kind of like I should appreciate them, but lack the taste to do so. Basic PB strings, Gibson or Martin or D'Addario, make me very happy.

[dhanners623]

Indeed, I like the J-35's sound and I've been quite impressed with the guitar. It seems to do everything well. I had thought about getting a bone nut and saddle to replace the Tusq, but it would be a quality upgrade but not necessarily a sound upgrade. (That said, I have bone nuts and saddles on my other three acoustics and they sound great.) And, frankly, the quality and density of Tusq can be more consistent than the quality and density of a lot of bone these days.

[kelly campbell]

I have really like all the 35's that I have tried I don't know if I would be tempted to change the saddle and pins or not. Easy to say that now but we shall see.

[62burst]

. . . I had thought about getting a bone nut and saddle to replace the Tusq, but it would be a quality upgrade but not necessarily a sound upgrade.

 

What's the other quality besides sound? Punctuality? ; )

 

Kidding. But, just listening to your two cd's: did you record both of those with the Epiphone? Can "... No Secrets" CD be purchased as well? Quality stuff.

[58 Relic]

Personally and its only my opinion I don't change anything on my guitars I try to leave them stock + 1 for the Masterbuilt Strings

[songman]

Personally and its only my opinion I don't change anything on my guitars I try to leave them stock + 1 for the Masterbuilt Strings

 

+1 on both accounts. The Gibson Masterbuilt strings really impressed me. I am not putting anything else on my Gibby's.

[fortyearspickn]

I'm in the minuscule minority that opts out of the plastic and changes to bone pins. With abalone inlays, they especially go well with the abalone bling on my J45CK.I just felt plastic pins detracted from the otherwise great look of the guitars and shelling out less than what some folks spend on a pick didn't seem outrageous. I don't hear a difference, but I didn't do it to improve the sound, I can hear more of a difference based on the pick I choose. And I prefer the sound of old strings - I reluctantly change my Elixirs after 8 or 10 months, so their may be less impact on old strings compared to new.

I've suggested here several times on similar threads concerning differences in pin materials on the sound of the guitar - if you are really interested for the impact on Your Guitar using Your Ears - simply put a bone pin in one hole and a plastic one in another - each with a brand new G string from two new sets of strings of the same make. Anything short of that is subjective at best, relying on your 'sound memory" as well as other possible variables like the pick you picked up, humidity, the room you played in, sitting or standing, etc.

[dhanners623]

 

What's the other quality besides sound? Punctuality? ; )

 

Kidding. But, just listening to your two cd's: did you record both of those with the Epiphone? Can "... No Secrets" CD be purchased as well? Quality stuff.

 

That's kind of you to say. My two main guitars on my first record was a '98 J-45 (which I sold before moving to Kuwait) and a D-18 clone built from a StewMac kit by a guy in Northern Minnesota. For the "Secrets" record, I used that guitar, another D-18 clone built from a StewMac kit by Kevin Schwab, who works in Charlie Hoffman's shop in Minneapolis. It is an amazing guitar. I also used my IB'64 Epiphone Texan on the last cut, and I used the record producer's '30's wood-bodied National reso on a tune.

 

The "Secrets" record is available through CDBaby, but.... You can go to my website, http://www.davidhanners.com, go to the "downloads" page and download MP3s of the songs from both records for free. And that helps explain why I never make any money off of music....

[Boyd]

Sorry, but I always chuckle when I read how people on this forum talk about how great Gibson guitars are, then when they buy one they immediately replace every part that can be removed. "Only a Gibson is good enough"… just change the tuners, bridge pins, nut, saddle, pick guard and truss rod cover.

[E-minor7]

I like to experiment and almost always have bone on the lower end. Plast, different woods or horn are choices for G - B and high E, it depends.

 

Well, being a bass, not too britle trebs-guy the logic is obvious.

 

dhanners, I'm glad you're on the team that takes pin material seriously. Can I ask :

 

If the J-35 is 9 on a 12-point scale, where then would you put the professionally body-sanded IB 1964 Texan Epiphone ?

 

Cheers

[kelly campbell]

Sorry, but I always chuckle when I read how people on this forum talk about how great Gibson guitars are, then when they buy one they immediately replace every part that can be removed. "Only a Gibson is good enough"… just change the tuners, bridge pins, nut, saddle, pick guard and truss rod cover.

 

 

I am inclined not to change because I have not been unhappy with any of my Gibson's thus far. I might consider it on one some day just to see if there is anything with it. Only thing I have done to this point on any is have a set up done so it lowers the action a little.

[BigDawg007]

On my J-45, I really like the bright sparkle that the bone pins, saddle and nut provided. It made my guitar sound overall so much better. More resonance. I even like the Elixir Phosphur Bronze 80/20 nanowebs best. Its a weird combo and I think most people don't go this route on a J-45, but I am happy. I don't want to ever change it. I also won't mess with the saddle anymore after my debacle (Lesson learned) from having a GC tech mess with my saddle and shaved it down asymetrically.

 

But I agree with most that its all in your perception of the sound. If its too bright, change it. I also think playing style influences a person's sound and what you like and dont like; then the electronics if you choose to go there influences the sound immensely.

[dhanners623]

Sorry, but I always chuckle when I read how people on this forum talk about how great Gibson guitars are, then when they buy one they immediately replace every part that can be removed. "Only a Gibson is good enough"… just change the tuners, bridge pins, nut, saddle, pick guard and truss rod cover.

 

Well, chuckle away. While I've been happy with the J-35's sound, if I'm in a position to put better-quality tuners on it, why not do it? Everything else will probably remain stock after my bridgepin experiment. But the reality of economics is that to sell the guitar at a certain price, Gibson (or any other manufacturer) is going to devote their attention to the basic structure of the guitar -- the body and the neck -- and other things aren't going to be as high a quality. It's ok with me if they want to use AAA wood (or whatever grade they're using) for the top but scrimp on the tuners. The wood and the quality of construction are two things I have no control over, yet they will establish what the guitar will be. But if I can tweak and/or personalize the guitar with better tuners or bridgepins than it came with, I'd be crazy not to. It's just making a good guitar better.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Sorry, but I always chuckle when I read how people on this forum talk about how great Gibson guitars are, then when they buy one they immediately replace every part that can be removed. "Only a Gibson is good enough"… just change the tuners, bridge pins, nut, saddle, pick guard and truss rod cover.

That's like saying, "Hey man, if you like the way you look and sound, why do you ever bother changing your clothes?" Sure, some of those things might have a small effect on the tone, arguably, but not a lot. Yeah, they change the look some. Not much. It's still the same guitar.

 

That said, I do regret changing to bone saddle/nut on my J-15 (I figured, might as well, since I was changing the pickup I hated to something I preferred). I often wish I could flip a switch and see how the Tusq or whatever sounded again.

 

But, it sounds amazing the way it is, and very different from my other guitars. But I will never know how much of the current sound is due to the saddle/nut. Or not.

 

The tuners, truss rod cover, pickup, pickguard... I am happy with those changes. Still has the plastic pins. :)

[MorrisrownSal]

Jesse. You have been busy! Check out that guitar signature!

[zombywoof]

Even Bob Colosi, who has a stake in folks springing for his bridge pins, says they will result in only a slight or subtle difference at best. And after 50 years of using pins made of every imaginable material including brass, I do not even buy that. Then again, if I spent what some folks do on bridge pins, I would not let anyone tell me to does not make an appreciable difference.

[Boyd]

That's like saying, "Hey man, if you like the way you look and sound, why do you ever bother changing your clothes?"

 

So, if I don't change my bridge pines, nut and saddle regularly, they'll start to smell bad and nobody will want to associate with me? Seriously Jesse you lost me with that analogy. Do you mean it's good to change the way you look from time to time? I'll buy that, although for the most part the only thing that's changed in my wardrobe for years is what brand of bluejeans and what color t-shirt I wear. But I'm a "vintage model" and it would affect my value if I didn't keep myself in "original condition".

[E-minor7]

That said, I do regret changing to bone saddle/nut on my J-15 (I figured, might as well, since I was changing the pickup I hated to something I preferred). I often wish I could flip a switch and see how the Tusq or whatever sounded again.

 

Keeping the old nut and not gluing the new is the way to go. I do that in order to switch back and forth a few times before finally getting the glue running.

 

Isn't that important - the string pressure does the job.

[Jesse_Dylan]

woops, ended up with a double post and not sure how/if I can delete this one...

[Jesse_Dylan]

Jesse. You have been busy! Check out that guitar signature!

Yes, too busy!! There is no room left now, and I can't imagine parting with any of them. I should be saving up money anyway instead of buying guitars. (To be fair, I sold a few to make room but took up that room and then some.)

 

Even Bob Colosi, who has a stake in folks springing for his bridge pins, says they will result in only a slight or subtle difference at best. And after 50 years of using pins made of every imaginable material including brass, I do not even buy that. Then again, if I spent what some folks do on bridge pins, I would not let anyone tell me to does not make an appreciable difference.

I used to think I noticed fairly sizable differences sometimes swapping bridge pins. I'm not sure about that anymore. And if I'm not sure enough about it to know whether it makes a difference or not, I figure I won't worry about it. Some folks say that once the strings cross the saddle, anything before the saddle makes no difference. Other folks say it's only the weight of the pins on the bridge that makes a difference. I did a few "blind" tests on myself and came away thinking plastic sounded better or that there was no difference. So, again, I decided not to worry.

 

So, if I don't change my bridge pines, nut and saddle regularly, they'll start to smell bad and nobody will want to associate with me? Seriously Jesse you lost me with that analogy. Do you mean it's good to change the way you look from time to time? I'll buy that, although for the most part the only thing that's changed in my wardrobe for years is what brand of bluejeans and what color t-shirt I wear. But I'm a "vintage model" and it would affect my value if I didn't keep myself in "original condition".

Well, I don't know. I could come up with a new analogy maybe. Let's say a fella has a wife and he buys her some fancy underpants and she likes it. They aren't the pants she came with, and heck, maybe all the clothes are different, but she's still the same lady, and she still broods and scares you just the same when you buy too many guitars. I hear you on the wardrobe though. Just because I had some fun with the J-15 doesn't mean I can be bothered to care about my wardrobe. :) Business casual is the bane of my existence.

 

Keeping the old nut and not gluing the new is the way to go. I do that in order to switch back and forth a few times before finally getting the glue running.

 

Isn't that important - the string pressure does the job.

Yes, I wish I'd done that! In the future, I certainly will. I'd really like to be able to swap back and forth and see what I prefer. I should have asked them to do that.