Rabs Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Huhhh!! I now need to do some experiments.... Anyone know anything about this?? Would it make a difference to the guitar controls which way around they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I didn't watch the video but I do know about this :P The side with the stripe is called the "outer foil". Capacitors have a rolled up sheet of foil inside, and having the outer foil connected to the side with the closest potential to ground is ideal because the outer foil being grounded acts as a shield to the inner foil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 I didn't watch the video but I do know about this :P The side with the stripe is called the "outer foil". Capacitors have a rolled up sheet of foil inside, and having the outer foil connected to the side with the closest potential to ground is ideal because the outer foil being grounded acts as a shield to the inner foil. Hmmm.. its interesting... Because I know for a fact on some guitars I made some are facing one way and some the other... and at least one with the letters facing inwards I know sounds REALLY good... as I say, I may try some experiments with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Hmmm.. its interesting... Because I know for a fact on some guitars I made some are facing one way and some the other... and at least one with the letters facing inwards I know sounds REALLY good... as I say, I may try some experiments with this... That's the key - experimenting. Trying it both ways - preferably recording them both - can help you choose. Sometimes "backward" sounds better. Just depends on the guitar and the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 That's the key - experimenting. Trying it both ways - preferably recording them both - can help you choose. Sometimes "backward" sounds better. Just depends on the guitar and the cap. Ohh man it just never ends does it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Nope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The Orange Drops are "supposed to" have the foil end to the right, like the thumbnail pic in the video. My experience is that about 80% of them do. And about 20% have the foil end to the left. So if you can't test them just install the right lead to the tone control and you're "likely" to be right. So you got THAT going for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Great. 10 years of who can hear the direction of caps comin up. The internet. Always here to serve. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Great. 10 years of who can hear the direction of caps comin up. The internet. Always here to serve. rct Well at least this is a real thing. Guitarists didn't make it up, the people manufacturing the caps print the stripe on there for a reason. But you know Jimmy Page got that tone with backwards caps. No way to get that TONE without bumblebeez installed backwards let's be real here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Jimmy Page sold a lot of Les Pauls using a Tele with backwards caps. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Jimmy Page sold a lot of Les Pauls using a Tele with backwards caps. rct Rabs just don't try and install a polarized cap backwards in a power supply unless you want to hear the tone of the cap exploding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 These aren't electrolytic caps. No concern about explosions. The idea that this makes a difference is worthy. The cap is connected from the signal to ground in order to dump unwanted frequencies. Any interference picked up in the cap because it's backwards and less shielded is dumped to ground anyway. It makes a difference only if the cap doesn't connect to ground and since they nearly always do in tone circuits it's nonsense. Definitely nonsense for guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drog Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Kinda like having your pants on backwards...always check for the stripe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 These aren't electrolytic caps. No concern about explosions. The idea that this makes a difference is worthy. The cap is connected from the signal to ground in order to dump unwanted frequencies. Any interference picked up in the cap because it's backwards and less shielded is dumped to ground anyway. It makes a difference only if the cap doesn't connect to ground and since they nearly always do in tone circuits it's nonsense. Definitely nonsense for guitars. I didn't suggest that these are polarized. The time when this would make more of a difference is obviously in an amplifier, but it is common practice to connect the outer foil to the side with the lower impedance.. In an amplifier this wouldn't necessarily be ground, it could be B+, or more commonly the plate of the previous gain stage. Which I'm sure you're already aware of anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yeah the guy in the video is talking more about amps and high powered circuits than anything... Its just id not heard of that before so when I saw it I wondered if it would make a difference to a guitar circuit... I may try it just out of interest :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thanks for turning my whole world upside down. Thanks alot . Damn it man ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 You need to check and see if your strap is installed backwards too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I didnt know that about pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Soon will be the Peter Green mod, caps all goin backwards and sideways and suchlike. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 this calls for an intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I didn't suggest that these are polarized. The time when this would make more of a difference is obviously in an amplifier, but it is common practice to connect the outer foil to the side with the lower impedance.. In an amplifier this wouldn't necessarily be ground, it could be B+, or more commonly the plate of the previous gain stage. Which I'm sure you're already aware of anyway They are polarised in that there's a correct polarity. They're not electrolytic, that's different. If what comes out of the cap is signal which is used then yes, it's arguable that the polarity matters because the foil may shield it but if the cap is a route to ground for unwanted signal then it makes makes not one iota of difference. I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. Rabs, honestly, save yourself the effort of experimenting. Physics dictates that it cannot make any difference for guitar tone caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Just watched the video. When he's talking in the first half a lot of the examples he mentions have the capacitor connected to ground (the chassis) and therefore it still makes no difference. He also doesn't quite seem to understand the difference between impedance and resistance (at least if he does he is using the terms interchangeably anyway). Some of his examples (plate to grid) do pass signal further into the circuit which theoretically does make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Can I tell the acoustic guys my capo has the caps in the right way? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Is it wrong to spell caps in lowercase ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 They are polarised in that there's a correct polarity. They're not electrolytic, that's different. If what comes out of the cap is signal which is used then yes, it's arguable that the polarity matters because the foil may shield it but if the cap is a route to ground for unwanted signal then it makes makes not one iota of difference. I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. Rabs, honestly, save yourself the effort of experimenting. Physics dictates that it cannot make any difference for guitar tone caps. IMO calling film/foil and similar caps polarized would be a complete misnomer. Although you want to pay attention to the direction you solder them in, the "stripe side" may be connected to a + voltage, - voltage, or ground depending on the application. This is obviously not the case with polarized capacitors. The reason I said "polarized" instead of "electrolytic" is that there are other polarized caps (tantalum, which is even more sensitive to reverse polarity), as well as bipolar electrolytic caps. I understand what you mean, but I prefer to use the standard terminology rather than add my own interpretation to the word "polarized" (with regard to capacitors of course) Sheesh, who'd have thought capacitors would be such a polarizing topic Btw just to be clear farns, if we were chatting in person my tone would be that of a respectful, friendly debate. Not an angry argument Now as to whether or not it makes a difference in a guitar tone circuit, I won't debate that. I just try to follow the standard practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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