Homz Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 AS the economic recovery plan takes roots... Do you think our economic stimulus programs will show measurable results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Call it Faith in the American Working Class, but I said Quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Define what the "recovery" should look like or actually will look like. I don't believe things will be as they have been in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think slowly at first, and then pick up speed. At least I hope so. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyH Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It absolutely will work-- to send inflation through the roof and the value of your money will drop. It is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I haven't seen a SINGLE job created yet. I haven't seen how we'll ever pay for this "relief" other than a combination of an unprecedented economic boom and confiscatory taxation rates. The boom went bust with the Democrats swinging the hammer and everything they stand for, campaign on, and actually do is nothing more than smashing the piggy bank into smaller pieces hoping another trillion or two is hidden among the ceramic rubble. The confiscatory tax rates are a reality, the ONLY people who make out under the Great New Raw Deal for Society are people who don't work anyway and simply take all the gov't will give them - and they're waiting for more candy. Think I'm making this up? Listen to the very words out of the mouths of EVERY Democrat over the last 3 years since they were running for control of the House and Senate in 2006. They lied about EVERYTHING except higher taxes. We're still in Iraq. We're still fxcking with Iran after they told Obummer to go pack sand up his ***. We're gonna invade Pakistan, or some other sh!t hole - you wait. When all else fails Obama will prove he's tough. Rent the movie Wag The Dog.... Pelosi and crew are talking sh!t to some of the best financial minds in the world while they can't pay their own taxes. They've pulled the plug on so many programs that had billions invested in them so far because suddenly they won't work. They're dumping TRILLIONS into programs that have NEVER worked. They have vowed to stop arresting ALL illegal aliens. They have vowed to confiscate private firearms. Meanwhile, Pelosi and Obummer are skipping around the nation in jumbo jets like somebody else paid their cab fare. EVERYTHING you spend money on is gonna be more expensive. Every bank has already gone crazy with new/more fees, soon they'll charge you for the air you breathe when you walk in. Every business will see more costs directly related to gov't, and indirect costs of compliance. Every industry that "pays more" in taxes and environmental costs levied by the gov't will hire less and charge more. Every utility bill will rise due to the inability of both private and public utilities to stem the ever-rising costs - let alone the pipe dreams of a Eutopian Paradise where wind and solar are cheap and available even on calm nights. Here's your wake up call. Aside from the $55,000 I already pay in taxes every year, I calculated my individual portion of the bailout to be around $175,000 already - with more to come. Somebody has to pay for this sooner or later, the Chinese are no longer in the mood to buy our treasuries. That leaves the Zimbabwe economic option, print currency and keep throwing it out to the people to 'help' them. The ONLY way the debt gets paid is through taxation, and increasing the size of the debt isn't gonna work. Welfare doesn't work if EVERYBODY is on welfare. If they keep it up, at this rate I'll have to sell my house and all my worldly possessions, quit my nuclear job, bury my guns in the desert and go move in with my 70 year old mother. That seems to be their plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I haven't seen a SINGLE job created yet. In St. Louis, the Unemployment Office is hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ...Somebody has to pay for this sooner or later' date=' the Chinese are no longer in the mood to buy our treasuries. That leaves the Zimbabwe economic option, print currency and keep throwing it out to the people to 'help' them...[/quote'] In case you missed it, we are already starting on the Zimbabwe/Weimar Republic plan. A plan that has NEVER worked in the history of mankind. It wasn't reported widely in the news, but the Fed has "lent" the governement another $1 trillion of money we don't have to pay for sh!t we can't afford and don't need. That means printing money with NO value. On the upside, the government is hiring... Also, the congress has made it law that the Davis-Bacon act MUST be followed for all stimulus money spent...means more money spent for fewer jobs...look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Allen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 What economic plan? So far, all I've seen are huge spending packages designed to nationalize banks and move us closer to becoming a socialist society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The state of the US economy has not only hit close to home, two hours ago it HIT HOME. My wife, with 30 experience as a Graphic Artist in the advertising industry, has just been layed off from one of the largest ad agencys in St. Louis. Now the advertising business is usually a revolving door industry, and last time this happened she was out of work for five days, but I don't think that will be the case this time. For us this is no longer a situation of reading the headlines, we are now one of the statistics. Keep an eye on the Tradin' Post section, something tells me it's going to become a very popular place for posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Stimulus? What stimulus? I don't feel stimulated in the slightest. Obama's handlers, the Bilderbergs are going to bankrupt America. Obama is the face of the New World Order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canon_mutant Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 So, we've gotten into this mess through years of Republican "turn a blind eye nonsense" and here we are 2 months into Obama's watch, it's not all fixed yet, and we're looking for impeachment precedings. Though I don't agree with everything the new adminsitration is doing, I am thrilled to have someone at the helm with some actual electricity between his ears, that's paying attention for a change, and trying to pull us out of a mess he certainly didn't create. There is no doubt that mistakes will be made along the way like expecting AIG management to do the ethical thing with public bailout money. Now, we have to spank them accordingly and I have no doubt we will. Most all economists agree given the severity of the mess that this will take time and that some sectors will get worse before they get better. That said, the three most visible stock market indices, the DOW, NASDAQ, and S&P have all gone up 13-16% over the past three weeks alone and my 401K right along with them. As things continue to improve, Obama has already indicated they will pull in the reins on additional spending. They better or they'll be hearing from me too. It ain't all bad news people despite the continual nature of right wingers to try to find the bad in everything to keep the fear mongering going strong. I got an idea. Get up tomorrow and try to find something - anything good in the world. I'm convinced you'll succeed if you try. Or, you can keep trashing liberals for a mess they had absolutely nothing to do with. I expect the latter. Flame away . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 S It ain't all bad news people despite the continual nature of right wingers to try to find the bad in everything to keep the fear mongering going strong. I got an idea. Get up tomorrow and try to find something - anything good in the world. I'm convinced you'll succeed if you try. Or' date=' you can keep trashing liberals for a mess they had absolutely nothing to do with. I expect the latter. Flame away . . .[/quote'] When our Wall St. heavy IRA started tanking, I wasn't very hep to what was going on. Little by little it went away and I got an education. So I started taking out of the IRA, in spite of the resultant tax-burden, and began investing in some local projects and businesses. One of those businesses just signed a multi-million $$, 3-year contract for the design and construction of an international Tai-Chi center on a 700 acre property not far from here. Another is in the process of building a recreational center on the Illinois River on the edge of town. The project involves several hundred thousand bucks and several months of work for local craftspeople. This is a poor community compared to more populated areas. And the people here are much more accustomed to doing without. We don't notice it near as much as our more sophisticated brethren in the cities. The ones that are still coming here for vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think it would have been more interesting if I had asked who wants the economic recovery plan to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think it would have been more interesting if I had asked who wants the economic recovery plan to succeed. I doubt it would have unfolded any differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm looking for volunteers to pay MY portion of it. I was not given the chance to opt out. Is there anybody here with a household income exceeding $150,000 a year supporting this? If so, you can EASILY afford to pay all the additional money Uncle Sam and Aunt Nancy are wanting from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 So' date=' we've gotten into this mess through years of Republican "turn a blind eye nonsense" and here we are 2 months into Obama's watch, it's not all fixed yet, and we're looking for impeachment precedings. Though I don't agree with everything the new adminsitration is doing, I am thrilled to have someone at the helm with some actual electricity between his ears, that's paying attention for a change, and trying to pull us out of a mess he certainly didn't create. There is no doubt that mistakes will be made along the way like expecting AIG management to do the ethical thing with public bailout money. Now, we have to spank them accordingly and I have no doubt we will. Most all economists agree given the severity of the mess that this will take time and that some sectors will get worse before they get better. That said, the three most visible stock market indices, the DOW, NASDAQ, and S&P have all gone up 13-16% over the past three weeks alone and my 401K right along with them. As things continue to improve, Obama has already indicated they will pull in the reins on additional spending. They better or they'll be hearing from me too. It ain't all bad news people despite the continual nature of right wingers to try to find the bad in everything to keep the fear mongering going strong. I got an idea. Get up tomorrow and try to find something - anything good in the world. I'm convinced you'll succeed if you try. Or, you can keep trashing liberals for a mess they had absolutely nothing to do with. I expect the latter. Flame away . . .[/quote'] The democrats have been in charge of congress for MOST of the last 50 years (look it up). Bill Clinton signed the bill that completed the deregulation of banks and lending institutions and that gutted the Glass-Steagall act, the bill was supported by both dems and repubs. Every American president since Carter has made it his policy to free up credit to more borrowers (even those with little hope of repaying the loans) in order to increase home ownership. The democratic congresses have used pressure on lenders to increase risky lending as a way to get more home loans made. The democratic congresses have received more money in campaign contributions from AIG, and other Wall Street companies than republicans have, the top recipients have been Chris Dodd(d) connecticut, Barack Obama(d) Illinois, Barney Frank(d) Mass, and Charlie Rangel(d) New York. The Obama White House specifically asked for the ammendment that protected the bonus to AIG, Fannie May and Freddie Mac. As late as 2007, Barney Frank(d) Mass, said that there were no problems with Fannie May and Freddie Mac and the dems refused to pass stricter regulation on lenders. By the way, at the time that Fannie and Freddie were melting down, Franklin Raines the CEO of Fannie Mae, a democrat appointee, made $90million in salary and bonuses because he and his cohorts cooked the books to hide their problems. Barney Frank's live in boyfriend was the number 3 guys at Fannie Mae. The regulators that worked for Bush did a bad job, but they could only follow the regulatory framework that the democrat congress had written. When the repubs were in the majority in the Senate, the largest majority they held was 1 vote. Everything I've written is documented and available via both government and private websites. You can look up who wrote the laws and who voted for them. Do some research if you dare and challenge my statements. Bush took the responsiblity for the crash because he was president at the time. Congress (most of whom are still there) are the real culprits. Geithner, our new Treasury secretary, ran the New York Federal reserve and was intimately involved in all of the shenanigans or at least should have been aware of them and he helped to craft the TARP bill which was written by the dems and overwhelmingly passed by the dems (very few repubs voted for it). My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think it would have been more interesting if I had asked who wants the economic recovery plan to succeed. I wish it would succeed it's my country too, but I have my doubts and a lot of historical evidence that it might not. As Pelosi, Clinton, Emmanuel and Obama have all stated, "we shouldn't let a good crisis pass..." they intend to use the crisis to pass MASSIVE liberal programs such as health care reform, education reform, energy policy, etc....these issues might be things we need to fix, but spending money on them now isn't aimed at solving the financial crisis... Raising taxes to put into a healthcare fund for future fixes does nothing to solve the current problems in healthcare or the financial crisis. Spending money on new school buildings doesn't solve the education problems or the financial crisis... Spending money on windfarms, battery technologies and solar power (which Dianne Feinstein (d) Ca, is blocking because she doesn't want solar energy farms in the Mojave desert) doesn't solve the energy crisis or put very many people to work, or solve the financial crisis. Requiring all infrastructure jobs to pay prevailing wages (the Davis-Bacon Act) doesn't put as many people to work as allowing all businesses to bid on the jobs, it just pays back labor for their votes... We all need the government to pull their collective heads out of their a$$es and stop spending money on things we don't need. The stimulus package and the latest omnibus budget bills passed with virtually zero republican support and with virtually zero republican input. More than 400 economists, including 5 Nobel laureats published a letter two weeks ago stating that the stimulus was terribly flawed and likely to fail. We know from the depression of the late 20's that government spending probably won't save us. But I hope the I am wrong and that Obama's plans pull us out of this recession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 KSG my only issue with your post is that Bush took responsibility for the crash because he was in office. I've never seen or heard him take any responsibility. I'm not saying he didn't just I've never seen it anywhere do you have a reference for this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 KSG my only issue with your post is that Bush took responsibility for the crash because he was in office. I've never seen or heard him take any responsibility. I'm not saying he didn't just I've never seen it anywhere do you have a reference for this ? All presidents get the responsibility for whatever good or bad happens while they are in office, that's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I wish it would succeed it's my country too' date=' but I have my doubts and a lot of historical evidence that it might not. As Pelosi, Clinton, Emmanuel and Obama have all stated, "we shouldn't let a good crisis pass..." they intend to use the crisis to pass MASSIVE liberal programs such as health care reform, education reform, energy policy, etc....these issues might be things we need to fix, but spending money on them now isn't aimed at solving the financial crisis... Raising taxes to put into a healthcare fund for future fixes does nothing to solve the current problems in healthcare or the financial crisis. Spending money on new school buildings doesn't solve the education problems or the financial crisis... Spending money on windfarms, battery technologies and solar power (which Dianne Feinstein (d) Ca, is blocking because she doesn't want solar energy farms in the Mojave desert) doesn't solve the energy crisis or put very many people to work, or solve the financial crisis. Requiring all infrastructure jobs to pay prevailing wages (the Davis-Bacon Act) doesn't put as many people to work as allowing all businesses to bid on the jobs, it just pays back labor for their votes... We all need the government to pull their collective heads out of their a$$es and stop spending money on things we don't need. The stimulus package and the latest omnibus budget bills passed with virtually zero republican support and with virtually zero republican input. More than 400 economists, including 5 Nobel laureats published a letter two weeks ago stating that the stimulus was terribly flawed and likely to fail. We know from the depression of the late 20's that government spending probably won't save us. But I hope the I am wrong and that Obama's plans pull us out of this recession.[/quote'] Good points and they were from you not a copy/paste web site. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm looking for volunteers to pay MY portion of it. I was not given the chance to opt out. Is there anybody here with a household income exceeding $150' date='000 a year supporting this? If so, you can EASILY afford to pay all the additional money Uncle Sam and Aunt Nancy are wanting from me. [/quote'] I suspect there are many people here with household incomes of at least $150k/yr. This is the forum for one, if not the most, expensive production line of guitars made. Speaking for myself I get extremely irritable with every pack of smokes I buy being they just raised the cost here by 1/2 a dollar to cover the S-CHIP bill, but then I think about the children it helps and I get over it. It's for the greater good. I suggest you think as to weather the forthcoming raise in taxes is worthy the plans to help the economy. If you think the future tax hike isn't worth it then call your congressman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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