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mihcmac
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Cool guitars ... $900 (no case or bag included)

In some of the unofficial descriptions, they have said mahogany body with a maple cap.  To be clear, it is a mahogany body with a maple veneer.  

There are lots of nice features here with a lot to like.  Made in China ... surprise, surprise.

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20 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

Cool guitars ... $900 (no case or bag included)

In some of the unofficial descriptions, they have said mahogany body with a maple cap.  To be clear, it is a mahogany body with a maple veneer.  

There are lots of nice features here with a lot to like.  Made in China ... surprise, surprise.

The word veneer can also be used to describe the solid maple cap on a traditional Gibson Les Paul. I’m curious exactly what they mean by this 

 

It would be interesting to remove a pickup or control cavity cover to see if it is a maple top or what. In my Les Paul you can remove the cavity cover and see flame maple inside 

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15 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

The word veneer can also be used to describe the solid maple cap on a traditional Gibson Les Paul. I’m curious exactly what they mean by this 

 

It would be interesting to remove a pickup or control cavity cover to see if it is a maple top or what. In my Les Paul you can remove the cavity cover and see flame maple inside 

 

My understanding for Gibson LPs cap: = a piece of carved maple of 1/2"-3/4" thickness

Whereas veneer is typically very thin; perhaps 0.15" thickness. This is used on cheaper guitars. It can either be used over a carved mahogany body, but more usually over an unfigured carved maple cap.

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50 minutes ago, merciful-evans said:

 

My understanding for Gibson LPs cap: = a piece of carved maple of 1/2"-3/4" thickness

Whereas veneer is typically very thin; perhaps 0.15" thickness. This is used on cheaper guitars. It can either be used over a carved mahogany body, but more usually over an unfigured carved maple cap.

Or maple veneer over a Pine cap. The Pine is heavily flamed though.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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1 hour ago, merciful-evans said:

 

My understanding for Gibson LPs cap: = a piece of carved maple of 1/2"-3/4" thickness

Whereas veneer is typically very thin; perhaps 0.15" thickness. This is used on cheaper guitars. It can either be used over a carved mahogany body, but more usually over an unfigured carved maple cap.


The original definition of the word veneer does not necessarily imply the paper thin sheet we think of today. I have seen Gibson use the word veneer in a more traditional sense to describe the maple cap on LPs but the semantics here have me slightly confused when we’re talking about a more budget guitar. 
 

$900 really isn’t cheap though for being made in China I would think that’s enough money to use solid woods 

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11 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

$900 really isn’t cheap though for being made in China I would think that’s enough money to use solid woods 

 

I agree completely. Many PRS SEs are made in China now and still going for big chunks of money. Especially the semi-hollows. 

I'm not averse to China upping their game and making a better product for a bigger price, but they should be factoring materials they use into this also. I don't want to spend more money and still get a bridge that was a dozen cola cans 3 months ago.

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A couple more thoughts. Where we buy our wood here in California, high quality sheets of veneer are not cheap. 
 

In order for Epiphone to make a carved top LP with a paper thin veneer top, they still have to mill the carved top out of some solid material. Then they would have to do an additional process of attaching the laminate to the top (which is more complicated than normal when you are talking about the shape of an SG or Les Paul top). 


While I don’t doubt at all that Epiphone could create a press or vacuum tool to quickly apply veneers, the cost of the veneer and extra labor/tooling makes me wonder if it’s cost effective vs just using solid maple. Well they’re good at cutting those costs in China so I really don’t know.

 

Here in America I don’t think it would save much money if any to use a paper thin veneer on these two models. 
 

The SG especially makes me wonder how they would form the veneer over the bevels and then hide the seam at the edge. Seems much more practical that it’s probably a thin piece of solid maple to me. 
 

but then yeah.. the choice of the word veneer seems odd when just about anybody nowadays will interpret that as a paper thin sheet

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Epiphone has been using veneer's to finish their usually 3 piece mahogany bodies since the 90's, a way of providing a nicer looking finish at a lower cost.

The carved top LP's have always taken a slightly different track normally using a carved maple cap covered with a  veneer.

The new Les Paul Prophecy lists its construction;

Body

Body Shape                                            Les Paul
Body Material                                      Mahogany
Top                                                             Carved Hard Maple cap with AAA Flame Maple veneer
Weight Relief                                      Ultra Modern Weight Relief
Edited by mihcmac
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On 11/7/2020 at 1:54 PM, 01GT eibach said:

Cool guitars ... $900 (no case or bag included)

In some of the unofficial descriptions, they have said mahogany body with a maple cap.  To be clear, it is a mahogany body with a maple veneer.  

There are lots of nice features here with a lot to like.  Made in China ... surprise, surprise.

When Epiphone got the blueprints to make the guitars,  they forgot to ask for the case builds. Thats why they are never offered. Lol

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3 hours ago, mihcmac said:

Prophecy's have always been in the 900 dollar range, then there's also the Elite series that cost a lot more.

 

I still get puzzled between Elite & Elitist series mihcmac. Because there is (or was) an LP Elite that was Korean I think.

I thought the Elitists were still being made, but just done a quick check & wiki refer to them in the past tense.  I'm speaking of the MIJ builds that originally carried the old Orville moniker (Terada & Fujigen).

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12 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

I still get puzzled between Elite & Elitist series mihcmac. Because there is (or was) an LP Elite that was Korean I think.

I thought the Elitists were still being made, but just done a quick check & wiki refer to them in the past tense.  I'm speaking of the MIJ builds that originally carried the old Orville moniker (Terada & Fujigen).

The Elitist Series was made at the Terada and Fuji-gen factories in Japan. Originally called the Elite Series, Epiphone was forced to change the name because of a conflict with an Ovation line of guitars already bearing the Elite moniker.

There has always been some confusion on the Elitist series, mostly built at Fugi-Gen. Sometimes a rare model like the 62 Wilshire Historic Reissue built in Nashville or a few Kalamazoo built will raise their heads.

It seems, this year when Gibson reorganized the product line, that production out side of the Gibson Qingdao shut down.  Now used Elitist tend to be selling for 2 or 3 times what they originally sold for, which was over 1k.

8 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Man $900 for a Chinese guitar with a veneer and not even a gig bag is just brutal. 

Prophecy's represent the high end of what could be built at the Gibson Qingdao factory, one thing they all have in common is 24 Frets, effecting how the LP's and SG's were built. The Shredder guitars like the Futura or EM Prophecy's with bolt-on necks tended to sell for. less.

The only way to know if they are worth the 900 is to play one, the older ones were exceptional.

Also note that it seems that the 2020 Epiphones do not include cases, but can be bought separately..

I'm not an absolute authority on these, if anyone has more accurate information please comment...

Edited by mihcmac
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