Dave90 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 The Gibsons USA I've looked at in shops, they all have a thing in common.. and unfortunately is a thing that I don't like.. those light rosewood fretboards! Can you guys explain me why is that a thing now? since the 2019 models I think, at least, that's when I first noticed it. What are the woods being used for the fretboards? Is it possible to make it look darker, in a natural way, without causing any damages? Thank you, Best Regards David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Well the wood is Rosewood and I think Gibson may dry the wood out pretty long before it's installed on the neck. It seems many times a new neck like that is pretty dry and at the first string change if you use some fretboard conditioner it will darken the color. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave90 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 Well I know it's rosewood! 🤨 there are many types of rosewood though.. But letting the guitars go to dealers and respective stores with fretboards looking like that.. it's just a no for me, considering the price point! Guess fretboard conditioner would just do the trick for a day or two, no? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave90 said: Well I know it's rosewood! 🤨 there are many types of rosewood though.. But letting the guitars go to dealers and respective stores with fretboards looking like that.. it's just a no for me, considering the price point! Guess fretboard conditioner would just do the trick for a day or two, no? 🤔 Don't overdo it. A couple sprays on a cotton cloth and distribute evenly. This, I don't think, is not really enough to seep into the fret slots, but just to be safe I usually wipe the edges around the frets, cloth on fingernail or a pick or something. I let it sit for 20-30 minutes the first time at least, which is the time it takes to penetrate the wood, no matter what the label says (I use Dunlop). I repeat once a year just before winter hits. With rosewood, once every two years would probably suffice. No need to do it more often. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave90 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Pinch said: Don't overdo it. A couple sprays on a cotton cloth and distribute evenly. This, I don't think, is not really enough to seep into the fret slots, but just to be safe I usually wipe the edges around the frets, cloth on fingernail or a pick or something. I let it sit for 20-30 minutes the first time at least, which is the time it takes to penetrate the wood, no matter what the label says (I use Dunlop). I repeat once a year just before winter hits. With rosewood, once every two years would probably suffice. No need to do it more often. Hope that helps. Thank you! I just don't think conditioning the fretboard will do the job.. and as you said, you should do it, every one/two years.. depending on your weather too.. but it will always look light, maybe a bit darker after some lemon oil, for a few days.. 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpark Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Twang Gang said: Well the wood is Rosewood and I think Gibson may dry the wood out pretty long before it's installed on the neck. It seems many times a new neck like that is pretty dry and at the first string change if you use some fretboard conditioner it will darken the color. Don't think it has anything to do with the wood being "too dry". I think it's more about what's available in the world now. Dark rosewood is more desirable and is also become harder and harder to find. Since the darker stuff is in short supply it's probably being reserved for higher end models, custom builds, etc. Kind of the same reason Fender has, on some models and guitar lines started using pau ferro instead of rosewood. Conditioning the fretboard may only marginally darken it, but this would be analogous to putting pearls on a pig if aesthetically you just really like dark rosewood fretboards. Plus, the fretboard probably doesn't need to be conditioned in most cases, and when people do condition their fretboards they really overdo it. Edited February 21, 2021 by sbpark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave90 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 11 hours ago, sbpark said: Don't think it has anything to do with the wood being "too dry". I think it's more about what's available in the world now. Dark rosewood is more desirable and is also become harder and harder to find. Since the darker stuff is in short supply it's probably being reserved for higher end models, custom builds, etc. Kind of the same reason Fender has, on some models and guitar lines started using pau ferro instead of rosewood. Conditioning the fretboard may only marginally darken it, but this would be analogous to putting pearls on a pig if aesthetically you just really like dark rosewood fretboards. Plus, the fretboard probably doesn't need to be conditioned in most cases, and when people do condition their fretboards they really overdo it. yup! I agree with everything you said. But that itself should make the non custom shop Gibsons go lower in prices imo 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Once you condition your fretboard it will be darker until it evaporates and then it will go back to the same color before conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) When you condition a fretboard you don’t marinate it. Apply, then wipe off. That’s the best you can do. You don’t want to play a fretboard that is all oily and has s***on it. If you don’t like the color of the board, pass on the guitar. @sbpark said it best about availability. What are you gonna do about that... Want dark rosewood today, gonna pay for it. Buy a used model if you want darker rosewood. Edited February 22, 2021 by NighthawkChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpark Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dave90 said: yup! I agree with everything you said. But that itself should make the non custom shop Gibsons go lower in prices imo 🤔 Go lower in price why? Because a type of natural resource that's being used is becoming more and more scarce while the demand hasn't changed? Richlite is also an option. Gibson actually uses it on the J-45 Custom I think (which ironically does have rosewood back and sides). Nearly as dark as ebony and much more pleasing than streaky, light rosewood. Edited February 22, 2021 by sbpark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 14 hours ago, sbpark said: Don't think it has anything to do with the wood being "too dry". I think it's more about what's available in the world now. Dark rosewood is more desirable and is also become harder and harder to find. Since the darker stuff is in short supply it's probably being reserved for higher end models, custom builds, etc. Kind of the same reason Fender has, on some models and guitar lines started using pau ferro instead of rosewood. Conditioning the fretboard may only marginally darken it, but this would be analogous to putting pearls on a pig if aesthetically you just really like dark rosewood fretboards. Plus, the fretboard probably doesn't need to be conditioned in most cases, and when people do condition their fretboards they really overdo it. agree 100%.. Probably more Pau Ferro out there than we would even realize, which after all IS in the rosewood family. If you take a look at what Taylor is using for ebony fingerboards, I think this is simply an expansion of their model. Taylor used to reject wood samples that had the light streaks in the grain, not any more. Some people are indifferent to it, some don't like it at all. Bob Taylor feels he is doing the responsible thing since the wood itself is the same as any other slab of ebony. at the end of the day, It is 100% cosmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I have an R9 from 2019 that has Bolivian rosewood - Pau Ferro - and it’s pretty nice. Also have a 2015 LP Custom with Richlite. Both look nice but TBH I can’t tell the difference it makes in tone. I’m a pretty good player too so I am in the belief that if you play well you won’t have major issues with a fretboard material messing with your style. Another R9 I have has the Indian rosewood and it is dark. But this is a higher end guitar compared to the USA lineup. Again to me it is mostly cosmetic and won’t make your playing better or worse whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_biscuit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, kidblast said: agree 100%.. Probably more Pau Ferro out there than we would even realize, which after all IS in the rosewood family. It's not a true rosewood genetically and the rosewood description is merely based on appearance. Notice on the CS models fingerboard material is listed as "indian rosewood" but on the USA models just "rosewood". I actual called Gibson about this once and was told they use different types of rosewood on the USAs but its not pau ferro, granadillo or laurel. Who know... The fretboard on my 2020 Special is pretty dark and I have no complaints. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, king_biscuit said: It's not a true rosewood genetically and the rosewood description is merely based on appearance. Notice on the CS models fingerboard material is listed as "indian rosewood" but on the USA models just "rosewood". I actual called Gibson about this once and was told they use different types of rosewood on the USAs but its not pau ferro, granadillo or laurel. Who know... The fretboard on my 2020 Special is pretty dark and I have no complaints. if we're looking at splitting hairs, you're right it's NOT a true rosewood. There are some subtle differences, maple, baked maple, ebony. It's all part of what makes each one a bit unique I guess. But I can't really tell much of a difference with PF vs IRW .. I think my Mando is Pae Ferro.. Pau Ferro | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... https://www.wood-database.com/pau-ferro Common Uses: Veneer, musical instruments, cabinetry, flooring, interior trim, turning, and other small specialty wood objects. Comments: Pau Ferro is a wood of many names, and is sometimes called Morado: and because the wood is so similar in appearance and working properties to rosewood, it is also sometimes referred to as Bolivian or Santos Rosewood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_biscuit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 39 minutes ago, kidblast said: if we're looking at splitting hairs, you're right it's NOT a true rosewood. There are some subtle differences, maple, baked maple, ebony. It's all part of what makes each one a bit unique I guess. But I can't really tell much of a difference with PF vs IRW .. I think my Mando is Pae Ferro.. Pau Ferro | The Wood Database - Lumber Identification ... https://www.wood-database.com/pau-ferro Common Uses: Veneer, musical instruments, cabinetry, flooring, interior trim, turning, and other small specialty wood objects. Comments: Pau Ferro is a wood of many names, and is sometimes called Morado: and because the wood is so similar in appearance and working properties to rosewood, it is also sometimes referred to as Bolivian or Santos Rosewood. It's not the same species of wood. You might as well call laurel rosewood and it actually looks more like rosewood to me that pau ferro. I don't have a problem with pau ferro, and it was considered a premium wood by builders until Fender started using it. Gibson has clearly noted when fretboards are pau ferro so they don't consider it a rosewood either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 17 hours ago, sbpark said: Don't think it has anything to do with the wood being "too dry". I think it's more about what's available in the world now. Dark rosewood is more desirable and is also become harder and harder to find. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. My new Les Paul's fretboard looked a bit light, not too bad though, and after I conditioned it, it looks like dark chocolate. So the rosewood was likely dry. But you do have a point, I have come across light rosewood fretboards that stayed light even after conditioning. I agree with OP, it's a little odd to get a guitar straight from the factory with a dry fretboard, as was the case in my case. No biggie though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, king_biscuit said: It's not the same species of wood. You might as well call laurel rosewood and it actually looks more like rosewood to me that pau ferro. I don't have a problem with pau ferro, and it was considered a premium wood by builders until Fender started using it. Gibson has clearly noted when fretboards are pau ferro so they don't consider it a rosewood either. I only know what I've read and to be honest, It matters about as much to me as what kind of core material is in my guitar strings.. don't matter much to me anyway back in 2012 everyone was freaking out when Gibson went to baked maple fret boards. I bought an SG that had one, and I still have it today,, I love the thing.. Edited February 22, 2021 by kidblast 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_biscuit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, kidblast said: I only know what I've read and to be honest, It matters about as much to me as what kind of core material is in my guitar strings.. don't matter much to me anyway back in 2012 everyone was freaking out when Gibson went to baked maple fret boards. I bought an SG that had one, and I still have it today,, I love the thing.. Nothing wrong with pau ferro, I've had high end instruments with pau fingerboards. No one thought anything about it until Fender started using it and then a lot of people freaked out. Roger Sadowsky likes to use pau and said tonally is close to Brazilian rosewood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunking101 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) My 2019 LP Standard has am almost black rosewood fingerboard whilst my 2020 Custom Shop 1957 reissue has a much lighter 'Indian Rosewood' fretboard. So it isn't like they are saving the darker stuff for the more expensive guitars as some have speculated. Edited February 26, 2021 by sunking101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Tim Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 As noted by others, environmental regulations designed to preserve rosewood from extinction have throttled the supply of darker strains for now. And while I appreciate the visual aesthetics of some guitars, regarding appearance as a deal breaker would tell me I was playing for the wrong reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Change a set of motorcycle tires (don't forget to grease up the axles), wipe your hands on your pants, play the guitar for an hour, pull the strings and grind it in there with some Lemon Oil, restring and problem solved. Must I do everything around here?!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I prefer Ebony to Rosewood... That said, periodically I use lemon oil on my Rosewood necks & they look dark & beautiful... no issues... Its probably the same with that new Guitar... A little lemon oil & it will be darker & beautiful too... If it isn’t & you don’t like it, you can always return it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_biscuit Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) After a bit more research, I believe the Gibson USA line is using American Rosewood known as Dalbergia sissoo which is grown in the southern most parts of California and Florida. Reference: http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/DALSISA.pdf https://alliedlutherie.com/products/american-rosewwood-1 Edited March 10, 2021 by king_biscuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view, builders are looking for alternatives to harvest to get away from using things that are slowly becoming extinct from the planet so I guess we can either save a rain forest or two,, or make guitar players happy and keep chopping down trees to put rosewood fretboards on a guitar... personally, I don't see where wood similar to or a different type / species rosewood of makes much of a difference. Hey.. maybe I've not been playing long enough to notice.. Something I'll see if I figure out over the next 50 years I'm at it.. cuz in the last 50 years, I guess I don't see it matters all that much.. hey, do you like Ebony? now there's a fretboard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_biscuit Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 "American rosewood" is not very similar to Indian rosewood, take a look at the janka harness ratings for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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