Newbie Needs Help with A Gibson SG or Les Paul

[Ted Higginbotha]

Hello everyone,

My son has a Fender Stratocaster and he'll be learning to play this summer.  I wanted a Gibson to complement the sound of the Strat.  My budget is between $1000 and $2000.  I really like the Gibson ES series but it seems too pricy.  I thought an SG would be perfect since my son loves heavy metal.  (I like R&B mostly).  The concern I have is this:  I bought a used '74 Guild SG 20 years ago and it wouldn't stay in tune.  I have a couple of posts about someone's Robbie Krieger-style '67 SG going out of tune easily and that he had to use some industrial mix to sand the nut or something.  That sounds a little technical for me.  All I want is a reliable Gibson that is less wont to go out of tune easily.  I'm attracted to the 67 SG but I could go with anything really as long as it's a professional guitar in my price range.  

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for someone who is not too handy?

 

Ted H.

[Rabs]

Id say my main bit of advice is to buy a guitar without any sort of tremolo system if you want it to stay in tune... 🙂 

As for which one...  Well any Gibson can be used to play what ever you want from Jazz to Metal if you know how to use the tone and volume controls...

THE only way to know what you like is to try a bunch of them. I guess one of the things to know about Gibsons is that they have three major neck types..  You have the 50s rounded neck which are fairly chunky and then the 60s slim taper neck which is what it sounds like. I have medium sized hands and the 60s necks are perfect for me but to be honest everyone is different when it comes to that. Theres no right or wrong here, just what you prefer. Theres also the 58 huge baseball bat type necks.

Also I think its worth mentioning that each guitar as they are hand finished are slightly different from each other in feel and setup. This is to do with the neck profile and the exact neck angle which as said are hand done.. Which is just even more reason to try as many as you can. You could try 10 of the  same model in a row and each one could feel just a bit different from the last.. It is a bit of work to find that perfect one BUT well worth it.. When you find that Gibson which fits you just right, theres nothing else quite like it. 

Also heres a good video that explains the tone and volume controls a bit

 

And this gives you some idea of neck profile differences

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Rabs

[jdgm]

SGs can be neck-heavy sometimes. 

But they are wonderful screaming rock guitars and a very good complement to a Strat.  There should be no problems with tuning on any decent Gibson SG.  I'd like one.

[tx-ogre]

You can’t go wrong either way.  I have two LPs (both with humbuckers) and two SGs (one with humbuckers, one with P-90s).  All great guitars.  As noted by jdgm, SGs can be neck heavy.  You will want a good strap with something like a suede lining that grips your shirt to minimize/eliminate the problem.

[Ted Higginbotha]

Thank all of you so very much.  I'll remember the suede strap.  Thanks for the tip on not going for the tremolo (whammy bar I assume is what that means).  

[01GT eibach]

I love SGs.  My #1 for decades was a '79 SG Standard ... and it is still is a phenomenal guitar.  That being said, I would say go Les Paul over an SG.  A Les Paul is the truth.   Guitar Center has an exclusive guitar call the Trad Pro V.  The usual price is $1899 which is very fair.  A very nice "easy playing" Les Paul with weight relief, some very cool easy-to-use on-board electronics, and with all of the "proper" Les Paul "accoutrement" (body/neck binding, trapezoid inlays, headstock logo, HSC, etc.).  This being Memorial Day weekend, they have it on sale at MusiciansFriend.com (GC's on-line-only affiliate) for $1599 w/ 48-months 0% financing ... quite a deal to say the least.  Two flavors at that price, both satin finish: (1) solid mahogany body (aka, a "hog"), or (2) the more traditional mahogany body w/ a maple cap.  I doubt you can find anything new at prices better than that.  See video below for additional info.  Just a humble suggestion ...

Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro V Satin Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com)

Gibson Les Paul Traditional PRO V Mahogany Top Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com)

Maple top:

 

Hog:

 

[Ted Higginbotha]

Thanks for the tip on this Trad Prov V.    How does this compare with this:   Gibson Les Paul Deluxe '70s Electric Guitar  Cherry Sunburst; or a Gibson (is this traditional or classic?)?  If I'm going for a color other than sunburst, I want there to be excellent value.  

[Rabs]

Ha.. You know I posted the wrong video above.. It was meant to be this one  🙂 

 

 

[Ted Higginbotha]

Thanks! I'll check it out, 'bro.

[Ted Higginbotha]

Guys, I have a serious question.  I was at a local guitar shop and I played the Gibson SG standard and then the Gibson Les Paul Deluxe 70s sunburst. Of course I like both.  The employee told me that the SG would stay in tune better if it had the "clouson" (spelling?) tuner that had the Les Paul.  He said the tuners were $80 and that they could drill holes in the SG and replace the other tuners.  (I wouldn't see the holes unless I removed the clouson tuners.)  And so this question I have.  While the below guitar has a tremolo, it appears to have the "clouson" tuners that the standard SG doesn't have.  Assuming I don't use the tremolo (https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/SG-Standard-61-Electric-Guitar-Vintage-Cherry-1500000274179.gc?rNtt=gibson standard deluxe&index=6) would either of these '61 versions be a nice way to go to maintain better tuning stability?  

My son is terrorizing his Fender Strat with the whammy and I'm scared he'll do the same with the Gibson.  The cool thing about my son is that he has a highly experimental approach to the instrument. It's idiosyncratic and I don't want him to lose that because his style original.  We are learning Russian together and I'm hoping that this summer we can create some inspired metal music together.  I like Tony Iommi and Sabbath while he prefers Batushka.  

I keep asking myself which guitar I would rather play? It's always the SG, but I want one that will have great tuners to maintain its remaining in tune.    What do you guys think of the clouson tuners?    

[Ted Higginbotha]

This may sound superficial but I love the look of the guitar the same way I'd like the look of a girl.   Of course the guitar must deliver, but I want her to look ravishing to my eye.  I prefer the teardrop pickguard on the SG and it's because of the whole Zappa/Iommi fixation on my part.  The Robby Krieger models appear limited edition and well sold out. 

[merciful-evans]

The advice you got about the Kluson tuners I would take with a pinch of salt. Tuners will not correct a tremelo arm. It would be a wasted expense to replace the tuners.

Considering what you said about your son's whammy bar behaviour and tuning. I would steer clear of them and get a hardtail guitar. There are plenty of hardtail SGs out there if that's what appeals to you.

[jdgm]

I agree with m-e,  above; there's nothing at all wrong with Kluson tuners. If they really had a rep for going out of tune no-one would use them.   I have a Gibson ES-175 with Klusons and a Bigsby trem.  If the guitar goes out of tune due to excessive trem bar use, it's not the tuners that do that, it is the strings themselves failing to return to pitch because they get very slightly hung up somewhere in the string path.  While that might be up at the tuning posts (the string can bind on its own windings), it is not down to inefficient tuning machines.

Secondly, the trem system you would get on an SG is very different to a Strat trem.  Not designed for extreme usage; I used to know a Strat-using guitarist who whammied so much he would regularly break his trem bar off, and have to get the end of it drilled out of the trem block.  Even that can be done.  

Edited May 30, 2021 by jdgm

[Ted Higginbotha]

Thank you all for the excellent advice.  I'm leaning towards the '61 SG with burstbuckets R and T.  Here is the reason why.   I had been vacillating between a Telecaster for that Merle Haggard/Keith Richards sound ("Girl with The Far Away Eyes" kind of twang) and a Gibson SG.  I Iike the way that the brightness of the '61 SG can do good capturing that country sound;  I found that it also can approximate the Iggy Raw Power sound as well.  On top of this, if I ever want it to be less spankier (as one person said), it seems that I can just control with the tone knob.  Of course I heard these pickup sounds (490 vs BB) from a LP.  When I heard the two pickups A-B on an SG, it was harder to differentiate.  I don't know why that is.  Dang, those Les Pauls sound great.  It's like picking between Marilyn Monroe or Brigitte Bardot.  One is a little fatter it seems and the other has a more lithsome look, sound, and feel.  They both are so terrific in their own unique ways.  

 

This is the video I consulted for my comparison, but once again, the cat is playing an LP and not an SG. 

 

 

[Rabs]

And welcome to the world of G.A.S..  😄  Its something a lot of suffer from Guitar (or gear) Acquisition Syndrome.

The way this usually works is trying to find one guitar to cover all of your wanted sounds isnt really possible.. And is why in the end most of us end up with multiple guitars...  Of course you can get guitars that can cover more ground. Get split or tapped coils (which reduces the output of the pickup) or ones with various gizmos in them to change the sound but they are never as good a having the real thing. If you want something that sounds like a Tele, you gotta get a Tele.

I have never really gotten on with SGs much.. I find that the playing position feels more to the left (of a right handed player) because I think of the way the neck stick out more and is more set in on a LP.... Hendrix is one of my biggest guitar heroes and I have never met a Strat I really liked.. So sometimes just cos the players you like play certain guitars, doesnt mean you will get along with them how ever hard you try. So I would say stay open minded to what model you pick regardless of who plays one.

Then you have the who world of amps and effects...  Its what they call chasing sound or chasing tone. A seemingly never ending search for "the right" sound thats in your head and you want to be able to hear when you play. The issue with that is as you grow as a player and as your taste in music expands or changes, so does your expectations of what you want to hear when you play. its why it never really stops (but thats actually not a bad thing if maybe sometimes a bit annoying). Also sometimes what you hear can be influenced by your mood which doesn't help things either 🙂 .

Id say for guitars its mainly about playability.. The first Gibson I had was a LP Studio in about 1992.. It was a great guitar but I always found the neck a bit clunky and I didnt even know back then they had different neck shapes..  Years later when I came to buy my first Standard level guitar I went in to the shop and asked for darkburst (cos of Slash its what I always wanted). The guy gave me a Standard to play and to my shock it felt worse than the Studio where as I had assumed, its more expensive thus will be better.. So I told the shop guy and he came out with a LP Classic.. My goodness, it was a total revelation for me because it has a 60s neck rather than the fat 50s ones that were on the Studio and Standard.. Just that one tiny difference and it changed everything... 

Its why, really, going to a shop and playing as many examples as you can is the best way to find what you want.  My other bit of advice to go with that is when you do try one in a shop make sure you use an amp thats the same or similar to what you have at home otherwise they can put you through some mega expensive amp and it could be the sound of the amp you like rather than the guitar (if you see what I mean).

Edited May 30, 2021 by Rabs

[Ted Higginbotha]

That makes a whole lot of sense.  I own a condo with a small family.  My son uses a Cube amp and I want to get the Vox 5 watt amp. (Both amps also takes batteries so we can travel with them to nature and annoy all the fauna.)  It can't be too loud.   I've been playing acoustic most of my life and I've never had good luck with electric guitars because most of them were super rinky dink cheap and didn't sound good or it was hard to tune for some reason (Guild '74 SG).     

[Ted Higginbotha]

There is a standard SG for $1329 with the pickups 490.  Or there's the '61 SG reissue with the BB pickups for $1800.  I'm wondering whether it's worth the money for the slight variation in sound between pickups.  And then there's the traditional LP sunburst for $2300.  The more I read about all three, the more I can't decide.  I don't live in a large metropolitan area so it's not easy for me to try out a load of models.  Youtube has been helpful. I know for a fact that I don't want the neck style of that 74 Guild SG but I don't know what neck style it had.  It only had one volume and one tone adjuster.  No matter what description I read of any style of electric Gibson, they all sound indispensable. I suppose that if I go with a '61 SG and I want to change the pickups later from a BB to a 490, I can always do so,  right?  I can only see that happening if I wind up getting that Merle Haggard Telecaster later in life.  BTW, I'm middle aged so it's not like I have the rest of my life ahead of me.  I dig the warm sound of a Gibson.  I also love the neck and feel of the Strat but my son already has one of those.   Gibson makes the most sense to  me.   All you guys' advice has been terrific.   It's so cool that this forum exists. 

[SteveFord]

The 61 Reissues typically have thin necks so how big are your hands?

[Dub-T-123]

I really wouldn’t worry about the pickups too much, especially with the amps you mention using. The pickups are basically all nice at this price point. You would need to hear the pickups compared with the exact same guitar, strings, amp, amp settings, pickup height, microphone, etc  to be able to compare a recording of two pickups. I am not aware of any demo that does this. If you are trying to compare the pickups by listening to demos I think it is impossible for you to make any worthwhile observations 

 

A decent player will sound more or less the same with any of the 2 SGs or Les Paul mentioned. It will really come down to personal preference, budget, and availability. Personally I like the Les Paul because I think it sounds a smidge better than the SG and I like the way it looks and feels. Lots of guys prefer the SG

 

As Rabs mentioned the SG and Les Paul feel significantly different either standing or sitting down. As Steve mentioned the 61 SG tends to have a thinner neck. Those things will contribute more to the sound than the pickups just based on compatibility with the player IMO

[Twang Gang]

Really nice that our son will learn to play in one summer.  It took me years and I'm still learning.  

No one can tell you or your son which guitar to buy, he has to try them and see what feels best to him.  The SG will be generally lighter, but a young man should be able to handle a Les Paul as well.  Most people will think that an SG is more of "metal" guitar than a LP, but in truth both can be used for many styles - heavy, country, jazz etc.  They actually sound pretty similar as both have mahogany as the main body wood, and use similar pickups.  

The Les Paul Classic models can be had brand new for about $1999 or less, and they have wonderful classic sounding pickups so that would be the one I would suggest he tries.

Don't worry about tuning issues.  While Gibson are sometimes known for them, it is almost always the nut just needs a little filing and not the tuners themselves.

Have fun in the search.

[jifov38653]

On 5/28/2021 at 8:40 PM, Ted Higginbotha said:

Hello everyone,

My son has a Fender Stratocaster and he'll be learning to play this summer.  I wanted a Gibson to complement the sound of the Strat.  My budget is between $1000 and $2000.  I really like the Gibson ES series but it seems too pricy.  I thought an SG would be perfect since my son loves heavy metal.  (I like R&B mostly).  The concern I have is this:  I bought a used '74 Guild SG 20 years ago and it wouldn't stay in tune.  I have a couple of posts about someone's Robbie Krieger-style '67 SG going out of tune easily and that he had to use some industrial mix to sand the nut or something.  That sounds a little technical for me.  All I want is a reliable Gibson that is less wont to go out of tune easily.  I'm attracted to the 67 SG but I could go with anything really as long as it's a professional guitar in my price range.  

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for someone who is not too handy?

 

Ted H.

 

So, my son's diving into learning the guitar this summer with his Fender Stratocaster, and I'm eyeing a Gibson to join the musical party. Budget's sitting comfortably between $1000 and $2000. Now, the ES series caught my eye, but dang, they're a bit pricey. Thinking an SG might be the ticket, especially since my kid's into heavy metal (while I groove to some R&B). But, here's the deal – had a '74 Guild SG ages ago, and the tuning struggle was real. Saw a post about a '67 SG having its tuning quirks too, with some industrial mix involved for a fix. That sounds a bit too techy for my taste.

Edited December 11, 2023 by jifov38653

[Pinch]

I wouldn't install Klusons right away. Or ever, probably. Grovers are fine. 

Here's a tip if you get the SG: have the store intonate it when you buy it. Reason: the design of the SG makes it susceptible to intonation issues on the G string. 

However, this is NO big deal. If the bridge runs out of space to intonate the G string, they can flip the G string bridge saddle in the store to give it the extra notch of space needed, and it's fine. You can do it yourself, but it's best to have the store/shop do it, so it's perfect from the get-go. 

Can't go wrong with either guitar, and your son will love you for it. 

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask on here! 

 

[Pinch]

On 6/2/2021 at 4:44 PM, Twang Gang said:

Really nice that our son will learn to play in one summer.  It took me years and I'm still learning.  

😄 Same! 

Kudos for getting him proper gear, though. It's easier to remain dedicated with a good guitar. 

[Erin_Jacob]

20 hours ago, Pinch said:

I wouldn't install Klusons right away. Or ever, probably. Grovers are fine. 

Here's a tip if you get the SG: have the store intonate it when you buy it. Reason: the design of the SG makes it susceptible to intonation issues on the G string. 

However, this is NO big deal. If the bridge runs out of space to intonate the G string, they can flip the G string bridge saddle in the store to give it the extra notch of space needed, and it's fine. You can do it yourself, but it's best to have the store/shop do it, so it's perfect from the get-go. 

Can't go wrong with either guitar, and your son will love you for it. 

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask on here! 

 

 

 

 

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Quick tip if you snag that SG: get the store to intonate it when you grab it. SGs can sometimes throw a tantrum with G string intonation, but it's an easy fix. They can flip the G string bridge saddle to sort it out. You can DIY, but having the shop do it is sweet for a flawless setup.

[Pinch]

Why the **** are you inserting spam links into my post, and then rephrasing what I wrote?

Bot alert. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Pinch