LG-1 vs LG-2

[jibberish]

Is the only difference between an LG-1 and an LG-2 the bracing?

(fyi...yes, i've looked on the internet. yes, I searched "lg-1 vs lg-2" here. i cannot find a simple answer to this question.)

In fact, I believe that somewhere in all that I have read someone mentioned that the thickness of the top/soundboard may be different between the two.

Would anyone with experience care to share their knowledge?

[ksdaddy]

To the best of my knowledge, the LG-1 had ladder bracing and the LG-2 had X bracing and that was the only difference.

I'm confident if there are any fine points other than that, someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

[Raul Rehlmann]

12 minutes ago, jibberish said:

Is the only difference between an LG-1 and an LG-2 the bracing?

 

7 minutes ago, ksdaddy said:

To the best of my knowledge, the LG-1 had ladder bracing and the LG-2 had X bracing and that was the only difference.

That's enough of a difference

 

 

[Dave F]

6 minutes ago, jibberish said:

Is the only difference between an LG-1 and an LG-2 the bracing?

(fyi...yes, i've looked on the internet. yes, I searched "lg-1 vs lg-2" here. i cannot find a simple answer to this question.)

In fact, I believe that somewhere in all that I have read someone mentioned that the thickness of the top/soundboard may be different between the two.

Would anyone with experience care to share their knowledge?

Is there a certain era you're referring to? I'd be willing to bet the top thickness varied on all the LG models from one guitar to another.

The LG1, LG2 and LG3 all started off in '42 as X braced having different woods. After the initial run of 100+ each model, the production of the LG1 and LG3 were suspended until after the war. The LG2 continued production during the war and the initial lots of the LG1 and LG3 were shipped out over the next few war years. John Thomas has a good collection of all three and has posted videos of them. When the LG1 was reintroduced, it was ladder braced. I believe the differences varied down through the years. I have a '42 LG1, all mahogany X braced, fancy rosette. I had a '51 LG1 ladder braced and a 9-3/4" radius fret board.

 

 

[jibberish]

My original post must have been entirely too ambiguous. So let me try this:

If one took a 1949 LG-1, replaced the L-bracing with X-bracing, would it now be built exactly the same as an LG-2???

[QuestionMark]

I don’t have access to Gruhn’s book on vintage guitars, but I’m pretty sure that in it where it describes both guitar models and that the only difference would be the bracing.  Someone who has access to the book can check for sure or even just call Gruhn’s store in Nashville and ask someone there.   The Vintage Guitar Guide that’s put out each year by Vintage Guitar Magazine also gives a short description of each and could be checked by someone who has access to one.

Personally, I’ve never heard of any difference between the two models except for the bracing and the center line on the back of the inside of the guitar.  

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

[Leonard McCoy]

GuitarHQ sums the differences up quite nicely:

LG-0, LG-1, LG-2, LG-3, B-25, B-25N Flattops
Three LG-1, LG-2, LG-3 models were all introduced in August 1942. But the LG1 and LG3 stopped production right after introduction (only about 100 of each model was produced in 1942), leaving just the LG-2 as the only model made through WW2. All three models had different top/brace materials. The LG-1 had a mahogany top and chocolate brown top finish, the LG-3 had a blond natural spruce top, and the LG-2 had a spruce sunburst top. So the most common war-time (banner logo) 14.25" Gibson was the sunburst LG-2. After WW2 the LG-1 and LG-3 were reintroduced, but now the three models had different features between them (the LG1 for example now had ladder bracing with a spruce top and sunburst finish). In 1958 the LG-0 was introduced as the new low-end flattop model (ladder bracing, mahogany top, brown top finish).

Collectibility: Script logo (pre-1947) LG-2, LG-3: C+, all others: D-.
The LG-2 and LG-3 due to their spruce top and "X" bracing, are much better instruments than the LG-0 and post-WW2 LG1 models. B-25 and B-25N models, although X-braced, are constructed with adjustable bridges and other 1960's features that make them undesirable. Unfortunatly, since all models are essentially student models with narrow 14 1/8" wide bodies (2" narrower than a J-45, and .5" narrower than an L-00) and are quite plentiful, they are not real collectible (though the script logo LG-2/LG-3 are quite good for their size and some people do collect them).

LG-0: 1958 to 1974. mahogany top, ladder braced, natural.

LG-1: August 1942 to 1974 (no production 1943-1945), X-braced and brown finish/mahogany top in 1942, ladder braced spruce top/sunburst finish after WW2.

LG-2: August 1942 to late 1962. X-braced spruce top, sunburst (replaced by B-25 in late 1962)

LG-3: August 1942 to late 1963 (no production 1943-1945). X-braced spruce top, natural top (replaced by B-25N in late 1962)

B-25, B-25N: late 1962 to 1977. X braced spruce top. Available in 12 string version too.

All are 14 1/8" to 14 1/4" wide, mahogany back and sides (except for some WW2 models some had maple back and sides), mahogany neck (except during WW2, when maple laminated necks were used), dot fingerboard inlays, 24.75" scale length, silkscreen gold decal "Gibson" logo. The "X" braced models are decent little guitars. The ladder braced LG-0 and post-war LG1 are not very good, essentially beginner's guitars.

1958 LG-0 introduction specs:

14 1/8" wide Mahogany top, mahogany back and sides, straight ladder bracing, black bridge pins, screw-on black pickguard, tortoise binding on top and back, 3 on-a-plate tuners, rectangle rosewood bridge, rosewood fingerboard, 20 frets total, 3-on-a-plate tuners, natural finish. Bridge pad was spruce, which unfortunately would wear out from the string's ball-ends.
In 1962 plastic bridge used. $85 list price.
In 1963 an injection molded styrene pickguard was used.
In 1966 rosewood bridge with adjustable saddle was used.
In 1968 spruce top on some models.
In 1974 discontinued.

August 1942 LG-1 introduction specs:

14 1/8" wide Spruce top, X-bracing, mahogany back, no lengthwise center seam on inside back, mahogany sides, mahogany neck, rectangle bridge with black pins, single bound top and back, sometimes darker sunburst finish (darker than the LG-2, to hide the lower quality spruce top). "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" banner logo. Only about 100 made in 1942, production ceased until 1946.
In 1946 the "banner" is dropped (still a script "Gibson" peghead logo). Bracing changed to ladder.
In 1948 goes to a "block" Gibson peghead logo.
In 1955 larger pickguard with point, and 20 frets total.
In 1962 plastic upper belly bridge. $105 list price.
In 1966 rosewood bridge with adjustable saddle was used.
Discontinued in 1968 but seen as late as 1974.

August 1942 LG-2 introduction specs:

14 1/8" wide Spruce "X" braced top, mahogany back and sides, single bound top and back (though some had triple bound tops), fire stripe teardrop pickguard, 19 total frets, rosewood fingerboard, rectangle rosewood bridge with black bridge pins, two pearl dots on bridge, dot fingerboard inlays, 3 on-a-plate tuners, sunburst finish. "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" banner logo. The only small body banner logo model made in great numbers during WW2.
In 1943 standard tortoise pickguard.
1943-1945: Some war-time models have a mahogany top and/or maple back and sides. In 1946 the "banner" is dropped (still a script "Gibson" peghead logo).
In 1948 goes to a "block" Gibson peghead logo.
In 1949 a 3/4 scale (23") LG-2 was introduced, with ladder bracing.
In 1955 larger pickguard with point, 20 frets total, lower braces.
In 1961 has cherry sunburst finish, no pearl dots on bridge, $115 retail price.
In 1962 has white bridge pins.
In late 1962 replaced by B-25.
Early LG-2 models are actually a decent little guitar, since it has "X" bracing.

August 1942 LG-3 introduction specs:

14 1/8" wide body with spruce "X" braced top, mahogany back and sides, triple bound top, teardrop tortoise pickguard, 19 total frets, rosewood fingerboard, rectangle rosewood bridge with white bridge pins, two pearl dots on bridge, dot fingerboard inlays, 3 on-a-plate tuners, natural finish, "Only a Gibson is Good Enough" banner logo. The LG-3 is essentially an LG-2 with a natural top finish. Only about 100 made in 1942, production ceased until 1946.
In 1946 the "banner" is dropped (still a script "Gibson" peghead logo).
In 1948 goes to a "block" Gibson peghead logo.
In 1955 larger pickguard with point, 20 frets total, lower braces.
In 1961 adjustable saddle.
In 1962 bridge becomes plastic upper belly, $127.50 list price.
In 1963 Replaced by B-25N.

Late 1962 B-25 introduction specs:

Continuation of the LG-2 with minor changes such as triple bound w/b/w top, cherry sunburst top, plastic bridge, laminated bridge plate, thick pickguard.
In 1966 rosewood bridge with adjustable saddle was used.
Discontinued in 1977.

1963 B-25N introduction specs:

Basically the B-25 was the continuation of the LG-3 with minor changes such as cherry finish on the back and sides (only), natural top, plastic bridge, laminated bridge plate, thick pickguard.
In 1966 rosewood bridge with adjustable saddle was used.
Discontinued in 1977.

[jt]

Here is my comparison and discussion of WWII-era, Banner LGs:

 

[BluesKing777]

On 2/7/2022 at 12:14 PM, jibberish said:

Is the only difference between an LG-1 and an LG-2 the bracing?

(fyi...yes, i've looked on the internet. yes, I searched "lg-1 vs lg-2" here. i cannot find a simple answer to this question.)

In fact, I believe that somewhere in all that I have read someone mentioned that the thickness of the top/soundboard may be different between the two.

Would anyone with experience care to share their knowledge?

 

 

From a player, I have my 1952 LG1 ladder and my 1959 LG3 X brace.....

Could be 2 totally different brands! Don't sound much alike.

I would say my 52 LG1 is quiet and dark, but my 59 LG3 is really, really loud and very bright! (just packed it up)...

 

'52 LG1:

 

 

'59 LG3:

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by BluesKing777

[Jinder]

LG1s and LG2s have distinct personalities. The bracing makes the two surprisingly different to one another despite the form factor and construction otherwise basically being identical. 
 

I like both. The 2 and 3, being x-braced, are a sort of baby J45 in some ways. The LG2 I owned sounded like my J45 does after I’ve recorded it and EQ’d it to sound right in a mix. Very balanced and toneful. 
 

The LG1s tend to have a touch less volume, but can bark when hit with a pick and have a funky, bluesy sound for rags and so forth when played fingerstyle. Less sustain, a little more upper midrange push than an LG2. 
 

Essentially, yes you could re-brace an LG1 and turn it into an LG2. A fun project, and if you’re not mad about the ladder braced LG1 tone, it could turn the guitar into something you really treasure.

Bear in mind, though, that an LG1 that’s just been turned into an LG2 won’t sound quite the same as a guitar that’s been an LG2 for 70yrs. The top will have learned it’s ladder braced role in life many decades prior, and in terms of resonance and openness it will need some miles out on it to adapt. It won’t be the work of a moment…give it a couple of years. 
 

It may never fully wear the same boots as a native LG2, sonically speaking, but you’ll get close, and possibly even closer than I would anticipate.

[Dave F]

The '51 LG1 I had definitely had the Gibson thump but as Jinder mentioned, less sustain. Some like the quick decay.

I think there's a difference with the back bracing where the LG1 does not have a center strip but I don't know if that's a consistent thing. I think one of JT's vintage banner's is missing the back center strip.

[BluesKing777]

22 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

'52 LG1:

 

 

 

I had a quick look on Reverb.com to check current prices for LG1, as the prices for small acoustics have gone through the roof....

Even I am shocked :

https://reverb.com/item/47451222-gibson-lg-1-1952-sunburst

Mine was $800 plus delivery (wasn't much 10 years back - massive costs now!)

It is almost worth getting mine fixed...... need to move 5 guitars in front of the cupboard it is hiding in.

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BluesKing777

[jedzep]

Based on the 'Sucker born every minute' theory, this seller takes his shot, but all you have to do is look around at what $3400 will get you and I can't imagine anyone keeping this on their watch list.

You're actually one of the few people I know of that can make one of these ladder braced follies sound good.

Edited February 9, 2022 by jedzep

[BluesKing777]

35 minutes ago, jedzep said:

Based on the 'Sucker born every minute' theory, this seller takes his shot, but all you have to do is look around at what $3400 will get you and I can't imagine anyone keeping this on their watch list.

You're actually one of the few people I know of that can make one of these ladder braced follies sound good.

 

Thanks JZ...

What happened is that the 52 LG1 was one of perhaps only Ebay guitar purchases and I was...yes...that 'sucker born every minute'!

It arrived somehow in a guitar bag with the neck sticking out the top, a crack or 2 or 7 a bow in the neck and a split on all sides that said it was all maybe rejoined after a smash....

In standard tuning it was fully useless and I was fairly disappointed - experts on this very forum said how great a LG1 was - but a few months later, I put in Open D and ran a slide along the strings...hmmm, yeah ok, that is its new job! (but what is that awful smell?)

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BluesKing777

[jedzep]

You're a devoted caregiver, although I think I'd have fun putting a lap steel nut extension on and laying a fat tone bar across the strings, based on your slide offerings. 

It looks like a fairly big group of LG-1 owners are dumping at ludicrous pricing, looking at Reverb.  I don't care to look at any new pricing info on Gibson's acoustic line, so I don't know what small bod $2500 can buy in Montana, but I assume you can do better than vintage ladder-braced guitars.

I've been afraid to window shop lately, being both short of cash and weak-minded.

[BluesKing777]

54 minutes ago, jedzep said:

You're a devoted caregiver, although I think I'd have fun putting a lap steel nut extension on and laying a fat tone bar across the strings, based on your slide offerings. 

It looks like a fairly big group of LG-1 owners are dumping at ludicrous pricing, looking at Reverb.  I don't care to look at any new pricing info on Gibson's acoustic line, so I don't know what small bod $2500 can buy in Montana, but I assume you can do better than vintage ladder-braced guitars.

I've been afraid to window shop lately, being both short of cash and weak-minded.

 

Bottleneck guitar style must have been invented by someone who owned a guitar with a bow in the neck like my LG1! 

I like to grab a few chords or chord partials in open tunings, up near the nut and slide til my hand hits the guitar, 14 fretters rule! I find this style  better for a solo performer/singer kind of thing. But useless for clean playing (me) on a flat neck! I prefer a 16 on the first string, slides great, but that will bring the neck up after a while.

The lap style slide is hard to get variety and I would prefer to play that style with another guitarist/singer....more  like playing electric slide.

I have the nut extender and also a Dunlop Slide Capo that raise the strings along with capoing! I scratched a guitar fretboard with the extender, can’t get the elastic thing back on the capo after it came off...... Both items have moved to the Failure Drawer, first step before moving to dumpster......

So what am I saying? 

I prefer to ‘commit’ to slide and no compromise on neck height........slide guitar high strings 16 on a bow neck, ragtime and blues on a flat neck with 12 or 13s. 

A long way of saying I need 2 of each guitar 🤢

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by BluesKing777

[tpbiii]

Well I now have two 50s LG-1s -- 56 and 59.  I am not supposed to have two of the same guitar, but I bought the 56 in Texas in December.  It seemed like a reasonable price for one in such great condition -- it was an impulse buy.

My first real guitar was a late 50s/early 60s LG-1 -- I played it until it was stolen out of my office in the late 70s.  When I got it, I played some old folk revival stuff on it and stuck some pictures from c. 1962 on the video.  I may have already put this video up.

 

I also have a 42 LG-1, a 46 LG-2 and a 49 CF-100 -- similar guitars but x-braced.

Here is an old video comparison.

Best,

-Tom

Edited February 10, 2022 by tpbiii

[rustystrings]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:47 PM, jibberish said:

My original post must have been entirely too ambiguous. So let me try this:

If one took a 1949 LG-1, replaced the L-bracing with X-bracing, would it now be built exactly the same as an LG-2???

I don't think so.  I base this on my understanding that the ladder-braced LG-1 typically has a thicker soundboard than the x-braced LG-2.  If I were considering having an LG-1 rebraced to LG-2 pattern, I would try to get as many digital caliper measurements of top thicknesses as I could get before beginning work.  The number that keeps popping up in my head is something like a 20% thicker top on the ladder-braced guitars, but my as my wife tells me, I don't remember s&*%.

I don't recall where I read/saw it, but it seems to me that some of the better, more successful x-brace conversions of ladder-braced Gibsons have involved thinning the top from the inside.  This is apparently also helpful in rebracing mahogany-topped LG-0s as well.

I had pondered having such a conversion done - until the pandemic and the associated craziness and their effect on guitar prices in general.  What once would have involved hot-rodding/updating a budget guitar is now a potentially value-reducing procedure on what is apparently a collectable.  Unless you are given a basket case and free rein to do what thou wilt, I would say go watch for a deal on a 2013-2018 LG-2 American Eagle.

I am genuinely stunned by how expensive LG-0s and LG-1s have gotten - for that matter, LG-2s as well.

 

 

[Dave F]

28 minutes ago, rustystrings said:

I am genuinely stunned by how expensive LG-0s and LG-1s have gotten - for that matter, LG-2s as well.

 

 

Ditto on that

[Pzarek]

Did the LG-2 ever come with ladder bracing? I have a 58' I think it's an LG-1 but it's color looks like the finish of an LG-2. 

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, Pzarek said:

Did the LG-2 ever come with ladder bracing? I have a 58' I think it's an LG-1 but it's color looks like the finish of an LG-2. 

From 1947 on both the LG1 and LG2 sported a burst finish.   

[BluesKing777]

 

So what is involved in swapping the LG1 ladder bracing for X bracing? Take it all apart, top, binding, braces? Won’t that cost more than buying the x braced LG2 to begin with? Plus you may upset the Guitar Fairies.

I personally like the LG1 ladder sound and vote to leave it. (Sell it to a ladder brace lover).

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

[zombywoof]

There is a nice little cottage industry when it comes to re-bracing guitars.  Prices seem to range from $600 to $1K depending on who you choose to go with.  But unlike the LG series in most cases the guitars undergoing the surgery were never available with anything but ladder bracing.  

[BluesKing777]

22 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

There is a nice little cottage industry when it comes to re-bracing guitars.  Prices seem to range from $600 to $1K depending on who you choose to go with.  But unlike the LG series in most cases the guitars undergoing the surgery were never available with anything but ladder bracing.  

 

Ah, at last someone sensible is taking the boring as snores X bracing off and replacing it with lovely ladder bracing! 😑

In truth but a fair bit higher up the food chain, my Waterloo X and my Waterloo Ladder are equals and impossible to leave alone. .........the ladder just sings and cries with lead notes though. I went to sleep in my chair last night re-watching the glorious Reacher mini series on Amazon.....but I woke to Spoonful and Wolf on the soundtrack in the early hours - the streaming shows will keep going to the end without you! But just then I played around with Spoonful on my ladder, lead notes mimicking the vocal line and then the riffs.......perfect!

Ladder rules, ok! Don’t alter it.

 

BluesKing777.

 

[BluesKing777]

1 minute ago, BluesKing777 said:

sorry, double post.

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by BluesKing777