Kurt Cobain

[ksdaddy]

I deleted the photo from your post. There's a limit.

[NeoConMan]

Yeah BM,

Empathy I have in spades.

I think I have a basic understanding of what Cobain faced and I can follow the chain of events that led to his death.

 

Sympathy?

No.

Like I stated earlier, if you want sympathy then go see Grandma.

 

Wonder how well adjusted his daughter will be?

Love grew up a rich kid, so having money isn't the answer for sure...

 

 

 

 

Those that survived seem to be looked at favorably and they're transgressions forgiven. Page and Clapton among them.

I'm glad they survived.

I'm glad they're still with us.

 

Forgiveness isn't my job' date=' I do not occupy such a lofty post.

Beyond being a fan of the music, I enjoy no ownership and feel no obligation to steer them straight.

If I knew them personally it would be a different story.

 

 

Page and Clapton saved themselves.

They can give credit to friends or events to change their path of destruction, but it is their will to survive that did it.

 

 

 

 

Neo' date=' I assume you have no vices[/quote']

You are correct.

 

:D

 

Certainly none that will kill me.

[Gitfidl]

In "Magnificent Seven" Bronson tells the Mexican kids that their fathers have real courage (to raise kids and support a family). I feel that way too -- I see them every day -- going down the freeway with a car full of kids. Somehow making the mortgage payment, paying the health insurance, being a good father/mother, unknown - unnoticed and certainly un-applauded for their courage and their effort. Black-White-Mexican-Asian .. all the same fathers and mothers doing an excellent job (for the most part) of making a home and raising kids. I can say that it is worth every minute of it: the greatest thing most of us will ever do. I am going down to a Mexican household this afternoon to teaching guitar (imagine that -- an Anglo guy teaching guitar) .. I will be paid with hugs and thanks you's and maybe dinner. My hat is off to all the moms and dads and teachers (part of the formula). .. and to all the ones who hang in for the long haul and do what is needed to get the job done.

[Flight959]

I really loved nirvana' date=' pearl jam, and many others like them. Hair metal had to go. No grunge had to go. But there are still some good bands. RHCP is interesting and Janes additcion are touring this year.[/quote']

 

Pearl Jam are touring soon...

 

Flight959

[Murph]

In "Magnificent Seven" Bronson tells the Mexican kids that their fathers have real courage (to raise kids and support a family). I feel that way too -- I see them every day -- going down the freeway with a car full of kids. Somehow making the mortgage payment' date=' paying the health insurance, being a good father/mother, unknown - unnoticed and certainly un-applauded for their courage and their effort. Black-White-Mexican-Asian .. all the same fathers and mothers doing an excellent job (for the most part) of making a home and raising kids. I can say that it is worth every minute of it: the greatest thing most of us will ever do. I am going down to a Mexican household this afternoon to teaching guitar (imagine that -- an Anglo guy teaching guitar) .. I will be paid with hugs and thanks you's and maybe dinner. My hat is off to all the moms and dads and teachers (part of the formula). .. and to all the ones who hang in for the long haul and do what is needed to get the job done. [/quote']

 

 

I never got Cobain. I'm a picker. I respect talent. My 9 year old daughter will outplay him in a year. The songwriter in him actually went under my radar as well. As a vocalist, he was, well, not much either.

 

Sorry.

 

Murph.

[P.L.E.]

 

:-

 

I never got Cobain. I'm a picker. I respect talent. My 9 year old daughter will outplay him in a year. The songwriter in him actually went under my radar as well. As a vocalist' date=' he was, well, not much either.

 

Sorry.

 

Murph.[/quote']

 

In all honesty, I really don't understand all of this "bashing" of Kurt Cobain, not as an artist, a father, or a man. I get that some of you don't personally like his music, but downing someone's passion, whether they're dead or alive, is just distasteful. Cobain wouldn't have been a musician and a guitarist if he wasn't really passionate about it, and Murph you're pretty much saying he had none. Would you say the same thing to someone you actually know? How would you feel if I said it to you?

And obviously he did something right, whether it was as a vocalist, songwriter, or guitarist. Like mentioned before, he did inspire a new generation of guitarists, and his music reached alot of people, including me.

Personally, I believe under no circumstance should you ever judge or critique the character or integrity of a person. Some of you that have labeled him a "junkie" or basically a "bad" person should think about that. Everyone has issues. Some of us get through them and come out stronger, some don't. Maybe it was just his time. And yes, I know that he comitted suicide. As many former addicts (and addicts for that matter) will tell you, a person who is addicted will reach a point where there seems to be no answer, no possibility of return (and you know, some people don't know any other lifestyle than the one of the drug). None of these people will judge him for his actions. Just because they made it out alive, it doesn't mean they didn't have the same feelings and thoughts at some point. He just followed through.

And maybe that's what he thought best for his daughter and the rest of his family. Often, I wish I wouldn't have known my father. I'm sure he loved them, but some people just aren't meant (not fit, I'm not saying that) to be a parent.

I'm not and addict. Nor have I ever been or plan to be an addict. I have Kurt Cobain to thank for that.

And Murph, your daughter won't outplay him in year. He's more talented than you think. You've just gotta dig a little further into Nirvana's back catalog and live sets (it's so much better than their commercial stuff). And sometimes a simple five chord progressed, symbolically written, passionately performed song has more meaning and feeling than a metal shred-fest, country pickin', or driving blues jam (not saying that I don't dig all of that. I absolutely do. Equal Opportunity listener here!). But hey, that's just my two (or two-hundred!) cents.

[surfpup]

Seriously' date=' TRY to listen to Hendrix's music (an album) straight through. You cant do it. You get bored of it easily. Why? Because its repetitive. The only song that sounds really differant is [u']All Along The Watchtower[/u] and the reason for this is that Bob Dylan wrote it.

 

WTF? You're telling me I can't listen to a whole Hendrix album? Sorry, but I can and have listened to many whole Hendrix albums. Which ones have you attempted listening to?

 

As for Cobain... meh. IMO not a good guitar player and just an okay songwriter. However, Nirvana had lots of passion, dynamics, and attitude - and a precipitous (or lucky) knack for being in the right place at the right time. He made people feel something and that is the first task of an artist. For that I give him credit.

[Murph]

Whatever.

 

I'm a picker. And a damned good one. My heros are Chet Atkins, Les Paul, Richie Blackmore, Steve Morse, Roy Clark, Scotty Stoneman, ect.

 

I don't give a damn about his life. I care about MUSIC.

 

He couldn't sing with the Greats, nor could he play with the Greats.

 

He was a nothing. Like Hannah Montana.

 

He sold some CD's.

 

Wore work shirts.

 

Art?

 

Give me a break.

 

Murph.

[Bluemoon]

 

Personally' date=' I believe under no circumstance should you ever judge or critique the character or integrity of a person. Some of you that have labeled him a "junkie" or basically a "bad" person should think about that. Everyone has issues. Some of us get through them and come out stronger, some don't. [/quote']

 

+1

 

My guess is that he was self-medicating to deal with his depression. He didn't kill himself because was an addict. He killed himself because was suffering from a terrible and sometimes incurable affliction. It was a shame he took his own life...but you shouldn't judge him until you've walked in his shoes. I have had a family members end their lives this way and I can tell you their is a major biological component to this disease. To simply say that he was a coward because he killed himself shows a total ignorance of this disease.

[KSG_Standard]

Cobain...Meh...Never understood what the big deal was...He was appreciated by many, and not so much by many as well. Whether you liked him, or his music or his guitar playing is all subjective. A fact, it seems to me, is that he was a junkie as he was addicted to heroin...To bad he didn't have the will or desire to kick the habit...play with fire and you'll get burned.

[surfpup]

He sold some CD's.

 

Wore work shirts.

 

Art?

 

Give me a break.

 

Murph.

 

Cracking me up! Don't imagine you ever went in for punk either. However, do you like Monet? The term impressionist was originally intended as an insult by the established artists of the time who hated Monet's work. Von Gogh, Dali, and Picasso were all derided for their work as well. I'm no Cobain worshiper either. IMO, all the guys you listed were better players (though I admit your hero Scotty Stoneman is unknown to me). Still there is more to art than technical ability. And I bet some of the guys on your list were chided by the greats of their era as well. IMO, art makes you think. There are technically brilliant players whom I find boring, and there are technically brilliant players whom I find exciting. The same can be said for technically challenged players. This argument is as old as art itself - and will go on forever.

[Murph]

 

+1

 

My guess is that he was self-medicating to deal with his depression. He didn't kill himself because was an addict. He killed himself because was suffering from a terrible and sometimes incurable affliction. It was a shame he took his own life...but you shouldn't judge him until you've walked in his shoes. I have had a family members end their lives this way and I can tell you their is a major biological component to this disease. To simply say that he was a coward because he killed himself shows a total ignorance of this disease.

 

Boo Hoo.

 

I'm sorry he killed himself.

 

Just don't label him as a Great musician. Because he wasn't.

[Bluemoon]

 

Boo Hoo.

 

 

nice

[Murph]

 

(though I admit your hero Scotty Stoneman is unknown to me).

 

When you hear Scotty, Kurt will sound like the novice punk he was.

 

Back in the day, musicians had to have talent to get a gig. Being stupid wasn't a selling point.

 

It's not PC, but it's a fact.

[Bluemoon]

I stopped smoking after 15 years of 1 to 2 packs a day of Marlboro Reds (except when I was in the UK I smoked Players). I stopped because my 5 year old daughter asked to stop smoking; it was not over night but it was within a month. I also stopped drinking' date=' which I used to do allot because she asked me to stop again.

[/quote']

 

What kind of man are you that it took your 5 year old to convince you to stop smoking and drinking? If you were a real man you would have stopped as soon as your wife was pregnant. That's what I did. As soon as I found out she was pregnant I stopped smoking cold turkey. I smoked 2 packs a day for 12 years. Pretty sad it took your kid to beg you to stop.

[Murph]

Did I miss something?

[Bluemoon]

Did I miss something?

 

I was bing facetious. People quit for very different reasons. There is no right time or way to quit.

 

And for the record, I think Cobain was an average guitarist at best.

[djroge1]

 

Boo Hoo.

 

I'm sorry he killed himself.

 

Just don't label him as a Great musician. Because he wasn't.

 

 

I'm siding with Murph on this.

 

He was a terrible guitar player, singer, writer, and composer. Some of those depends on the listener, but let's get real the boy couldn't play guitar very good at all.

 

I normally side with Nugent when it comes to cobain, but I'll refrain from his quotes.

[Rocky4]

 

I'm siding with Murph on this.

 

He was a terrible guitar player' date=' singer, writer, and composer. Some of those depends on the listener, but let's get real the boy couldn't play guitar very good at all.

 

I normally side with Nugent when it comes to cobain, but I'll refrain from his quotes.

 

[/quote']

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad. He was one of the best song writers of his era. Before Nirvana, bands like Poison and Cinderella were on top. After he died, Matchbox 20 and Chuma Wumba took over. Take your pick. I don't idolize Cobain. I don't generally have an opinion as to what kind of people are making the music I listen to. As long as it's enjoyable. Top notch musicians are among the most disfuntional people their are. Name one and I'm sure he or she has got some character flaw.

[djroge1]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad. He was one of the best song writers of his era. Before Nirvana' date=' bands like Poison and Cinderella were on top. After he died, Matchbox 20 and Chuma Wumba took over. Take your pick. I don't idolize Cobain. I don't generally have an opinion as to what kind of people are making the music I listen to. As long as it's enjoyable. Top notch musicians are among the most disfuntional people their are. Name one and I'm sure he or she has got some character flaw.[/quote']

 

Why don't you face it, he was a horrible guitar player and that's the truth. You can disagree but you're wrong. The only people who think he was a great player are those who are worse than he was.

 

Personally, I believe SRV almost single handedly carried the guitar torch thru the 80's. However, I would take poison, cinderella, and matchbox 20 before anything cobain did.

 

You are correct in stating that everyone has some character flaw, but I said nothing of his character. I could, but I won't. I'm talking about his lack of talent especially as a guitar player.

[Rocky4]

 

Why don't you face it' date=' he was a horrible guitar player and that's the truth. You can disagree but you're wrong. The only people who think he was a great player are those who are worse than he was.

 

Personally, I believe SRV almost single handedly carried the guitar torch thru the 80's. However, I would take poison, cinderella, and matchbox 20 before anything cobain did.

 

You are correct in stating that everyone has some character flaw, but I said nothing of his character. I could, but I won't. I'm talking about his lack of talent especially as a guitar player.[/quote']

 

It's punk rock!.....You don't have to be a good player! Kelley Deal played for two weeks before joing the Breeders and recording Last Splash. The album got great reviews and went platinum. The Sex Pistols were horrible musicians, but they changed the face of rock.

[Rocky4]

Maybe thats why Punk died so quickly' date=' you can only piss on your fans so many times before they go to real musicians[/quote']

 

 

 

Where's Mick when you need him?

[NeoConMan]

Chuma Wumba.

THAT is enough to make me empty my 10mm Glock into my own radio....

[Rocky4]

THAT is enough to make me empty my 10mm Glock into my own radio....

 

+1

 

 

one of djroge1 favorites!

[Homz]

I admit I didn't read all the posts on this subject, but I can't understand how anyone could think Kurt Cobain sh1t on his fans. The guy was clinically depressed and a drug addict (probably in an attempt to self medicate). He needed help and didn't get it. It had nothing to do with his fans.

 

If you want to say he let his family down for not seeking the proper help or even if you want to say his wife should have got him the help he needed then those points may have some merit. That is if we all had enough information to evaluate that sort of thing.

 

But, the fans? Come on. He gave them his heart in the form of music. Weather you or I am a fan or not is beyond the point. His fans got it and they loved it. But they didn't deserve the right to make his life decisions, or to feel he personally sh1t on them.