DanvillRob Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I don't need an Artificial Intelligence App to tell me what or how to think....I have a wife! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 I'm lovin' this thread. LOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 14 minutes ago, Karloff said: I'm lovin' this thread. LOLOL I'm waiting for the name calling to start. 🤪 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 56 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: You'll argue about anything. I just asked the question because it's something complicated enough to challenge chatGPT, and you go and immediately start whining about what's right and wrong like a nincompoop with an on/off switch for a brain. I'm a P.E., O.K.? You know what that is. I did the structural design of about two hundred buildings, a hundred miles of road and all kinds of other ignorant stuff like bridges, water and sewer systems, pump stations, dams, other stuff that stupid people do and put their seal on it. O.K. with you so far? Or is what I'm saying stupid? Man, you need to get back to school or shutup. Engineers are running the world and they will until we're all dead and gone. You need to tell me how to convert a flourescent light to LED and keep the dynamics classes to yourself. No I only argue when it need to be argued about, Next someone is gonna post a dog is really a cat. They both have 4 legs so same thing? You don't covert a fluorescent light to an LED. I remove the ballast that gives the fluorescent light the inductive kick to turn it on and then rewire it to bypass where the ballast was. If I said convert I used the wrong term. I love Engineers. Its the reason I have a job. They make the thing, and I'm the schmuck that had to fix it when it breaks. Kind of like you with amps. Man you said we were friends. I'm feeling sad now. A motor and a speaker are still not the same at all, and you and everyone else knows it. Here is the definition of a motor: An electric motor is a device used to convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. And here it is for a speaker. an apparatus that converts electrical impulses into sound. So no not at all Ever put a motor in one of your amps you fix / build or are there speakers in there. Is that hard for you to grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 23 hours ago, Farnsbarns said: You must understand that sound is moving air and that in the case of a speaker, the speaker is moving the air, by moving 🤷.  So in effect you're saying my sphincter is also an electric motor because it too, occasionally moves some air.  Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, Farnsbarns said:  What a failure of an argument. 🤣 Not really. It wasn't really intended to be an argument, just a bit o' fun.  Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, Farnsbarns said: You must understand that sound is moving air and that in the case of a speaker, the speaker is moving the air, by moving 🤷. We put electricity into a coil. The current creates an emf which interacts with another magnetic field which creates a force, and moves the speaker. Flip the current, the speaker moves the other way. Do it rapidly and sound comes out. A speaker is a linear electric motor. Simple as that. I know that an electric motor is also a generator. When the appropriate electrical current is "run through" a motor, said charge is translated into motion. Yet, if you apply mechanical force to a motor, (rotating it in the opposite direction that it "spins" when current is being applied to it), said motor creates a charge, and becomes a generator. I also know that a speaker is also a microphone, (produces an electrical charge), when it is NOT receiving electrical current AND when mechanical force is applied to it, (such as singing into it, or simply moving it in and out.) Simply, the wrapped coil/magnet relationship is a "two way street". Applied current produces movement, and applied mechanical force produces current. I am unaware of any engineering/scientific language that specifies a "mechanical rotational output/input" for something to be called a "motor/generator".  It seems a bit obtuse for someone to claim that a speaker can not be a motor, simply because they think it couldn't make a ceiling fan rotate. (obviously a speaker was not designed for said application.) Yet a larger linear "motor", (reciprocating motor), could turn a fan, just as the reciprocating linear pistons of a steam powered locomotive/vehicle engine articulate to generate rotation.  Farns and Badblues, I have to agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) On 6/15/2023 at 11:06 AM, Farnsbarns said: Linear motors don't make torque, their motion is linear. A great example of this is a speaker. The linear motion doesn't lend itself to ceiling fans, and in the case of a speaker, the range of motion is very limited, but you could try. torque noun 1. MECHANICS a twisting force that tends to cause rotation. "the three-liter engine has lots of torque" 2. variant spelling of torc. verb apply torque or a twisting force to (an object). Torque is just a way of defining "force" when rotation is involved. Obviously, linear/reciprocating motion is not measured in terms of "torque", but can be measured in foot pound, as an example. Interestingly, I just had this conversation with a friend who is my "speaker guru". I am looking to replace a 20+ year old subwoofer, and wanted to understand the benefits/negatives of large sub speakers, (15" or larger) versus smaller sub speakers (8" or 10"). Long story short, larger sub speakers require more power and far larger coil/magnets in order to generate the Force necessary to overcome their own mass AND the resistance/friction of the "air column"/atmosphere, (as defined by said speaker's surface area), in order to "move" air accurately and efficiently. As such, the "force" linear motors are capable of is substantial.  Edited June 17, 2023 by Sheepdog1969 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Farnsbarns said: Given the reference to a video of a linear actuator using a rotating motor, I think it's pretty clear that someone in this conversation isn't familiar with the concept of a linear motor. Actually, given the whole conversation. One of the most obvious applications for a linear motor is a rail gun (another thing with it's own name that is also a subset of motor). If you detach the cone from a speaker and put DC into it, it becomes a rail gun. That voice coil will fly across the room like a p1ssed off condom. Similarly, you could run audio signal AC into a rail gun and make the projectile vibrate and produce sound. If you attached a cone to it you'd improve the efficiency and frequency response. At some point in refining it would become a speaker. There are also motors with no moving parts. Ionic drives use coils and high voltage to ionise air and push it out the back, generating thrust. Still a motor. Still no torque.  This is quite interesting. A Swedish "heaving" ocean buoy with a linear electrical generator. Edited June 17, 2023 by Sheepdog1969 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Farnsbarns said: It's a conspiracy. That's actually a solanoid actuator. They put current into it to create waves in the ocean. It's so we don't find out the earth is flat. Just like wind farm TURBINES do not "turn" due to wind, THEY ARE POWERED FANS THAT CREATE WIND!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, Farnsbarns said: Ha, myself and the Mrs had that exact conversation while driving up country to that rock festival last weekend. Wind farms (wind factories 🤷) everywhere. Just got back from Cedar Point Amusement Park in Sandusky, Ohio. One of my favorite coasters there, called "Maverick", does not use a mechanical "lift" chain, but uses Electromagnets.  LSM (Linear Synchronous Motor) Linear synchronous launch systems utilize a permanent magnet fin on the coaster train. The two aligned fins on the coaster track must be adjusted properly for the orientation of the permanent magnet on the train fin. LSM launches follow these generic steps: The coaster train approaches the track fins A current is generated (by a power source located near the track) that induces an attractive magnetic field in the track fins and attracts the train The train passes through each pair of fins, and the current is reversed by a computerized system, thus reversing the direction of the magnetic field and pushing the coaster train away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The reason I asked ChatGPT about the speaker/motor question was not to get a yes or no answer. It was to explore how good the Chat thing is at understanding what it's being asked when a yes or no answer is not enough. It wasn't really smart enough to deal with it. What a motor is depends on lots of stuff. Like whether you're an electrician or an engineer. If you're an electrician, a motor normally refers to an electric motor. Not an engine. And probably not a speaker. If you're an engineer, your definition of what a motor is is different. It's a functional definition. Something that turns energy into motion. That's what I'm interested in. How the Chat thing thinks. Can it see what I'm asking and have enough smarts to clarify something that's ambiguous? Like the motor question. It wasn't really able to explain the ambiguity like a teacher would. No big deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 OK, getting back---- IF a speaker is considered a motor because, as you claim, it's moving air, then how come the flame on a candle doesn't flicker when I place it in front of a speaker(with the grill off of course)? Apparently there isn't any moving air. Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 22 hours ago, Farnsbarns said:  Just checking, from the wording of your question, are you suggesting a speaker doesn't move air? I'd say, based on personal experience, it doesn't.  Loud as I play my music I shouldn't have any need to switch on my A/C if it did.  Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 The challenge for AI is this: When you ask it something, it's as dumb as a rock to start with. All the memory registers are empty. It may not even know what you're saying half the time. Then it goes around and does it's thing, educates itself a little, as much as it is programmed to, then it comes back and says something sophomoric. The challenge in using it to teach is that a teacher already has way more knowledge than the student to start with, so they're able to understand all the nuances of the language, understand what the student's asking, help the student get stuff from all angles and help them understand the ins and outs of stuff. All in context with everything they've learned about the real world. That's not something AI can even do, period. How many feedback circuits does a human have? Jillions? At least teachers are marked safe from AI for awhile. Imagine AI trying to be an electrician...  LOL.  RUN AWAY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) I shop at Walmart and come here purely for the entertainment value. This place has no shortage of entertainment. I'm digging up Bigfoot in a few mins. I'll post pics later. Edited June 19, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 22 hours ago, Farnsbarns said: I must ask, how do you think the vibrations get from a speaker to the inside of your head? If vibrations were involved I would feel them as well as hear the sound. And as sound can carry (and the distance is determined by volume) I'm bound to hear it if either it's loud enough, or I'm close enough.  I can also sometimes hear a woodpecker tapping on a tree from the next street over. So now, are woodpeckers electric motors too?  Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Well then, If you're that smart how come you can't surmise when someone really doesn't give a rat's a-ss and is just jerking your chain?  But then what's to be expected from people who waste time and space spelling certain words with a useless superfluous "u"?  Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 6 hours ago, Farnsbarns said: You mean you're being a troll, right? And you're proud of it. I didn't say anything that alluded to my level of smartness. Smartness is relative. Right now I'm very smart. Is anyone going to admit their dumb as a rock? Nope. I’m smart too. At least I tell myself that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 14 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Is anyone going to admit their dumb as a rock? Nope. I’m smart too. At least I tell myself that. This is how smart I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, merciful-evans said: This is how smart I am Looks kind of like Robert Fripp in a tux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just now, Sgt. Pepper said: Looks kind of like Robert Fripp in a tux. in the uk 'smart' = dapper ...and that's the first time I've been likened to Bob Fripp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Just now, merciful-evans said: in the uk 'smart' = dapper ...and that's the first time I've been likened to Bob Fripp Mr. Fripp does indeed dress smart. You English with your different lingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 17 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Is anyone going to admit their dumb as a rock? Nope. I’m smart too. At least I tell myself that. Really? Smart enough to use "Their" instead of "They're"?  But I know what you mean about the lingo. In the states, we think of THIS as "smart".                                          Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 34 minutes ago, Whitefang said: Really? Smart enough to use "Their" instead of "They're"?  But I know what you mean about the lingo. In the states, we think of THIS as "smart".                                          Whitefang Well the University Of Zurich did award him a Ph.d in Physics, so he can add 2 + 2 for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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