duane v Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, merciful-evans said: Had it been employed in 1959, players would use nothing else today. There is nothing rational about looking backwards to a perceived golden age, whether its from the angle of personal nostalgia or an embraced meme. Excellent Point. It's kinda like cars with carburetors, points and distributor caps...... I look back and what a pain that was when driving to Colorado on our family vacations in the 70's. Since I was mechanically inclined and once we made it over Raton Pass, there was this Resting Area before entering Trinidad I would remove the carburetor and change the jets and reset the points to compensate for the higher altitude. Funny thing is I haven't touched a timing light since the late 80's..... And I would never purchased a vehicle with a carb....well unless it was 1963 Split-Window Corvette. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 hours ago, merciful-evans said: Had it been employed in 1959, players would use nothing else today. There is nothing rational about looking backwards to a perceived golden age, whether its from the angle of personal nostalgia or an embraced meme. In all aspects of life people just do what they did yesterday, and the only thing different is the reason we are using today for just doing what we did yesterday. Tomorrow, we'll come up with a different reason. It's why nothing changes, no matter how much it needs to. Guitars are nothing in the overall schema, but a good example. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, rct said: In all aspects of life people just do what they did yesterday, and the only thing different is the reason we are using today for just doing what we did yesterday. Tomorrow, we'll come up with a different reason. It's why nothing changes, no matter how much it needs to. Guitars are nothing in the overall schema, but a good example. rct What is left to do on guitars that someone or a company hasn't tried yet? This (Gibson, and maybe all of them) is a brand of guitars where people want and demand certain things be like the good old days. I want my nitro finish, I want pups that sound like PAF's, I want an ebony or RW fretboard, I want a serial number that I need a secret decoder ring to decipher (people your serial number is just a number get over it), I want a 17 degree headstock angle, I I want to know who makes Gibson's stings, I want a COA, I want and orange label inside my guitar, I want nibs on my binding, I want, I want I want. Fender sprays poly. Anyone here have one and your just fine with the Fender you have? There is a reason certain woods are used on guitars. I'm sure over time makers have come to realize RW, ebony, maple and hog make better sounding guitars than if they used Balsa or Douglas Fir. Edited June 30, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, merciful-evans said: Had it been employed in 1959, players would use nothing else today. There is nothing rational about looking backwards to a perceived golden age, whether its from the angle of personal nostalgia or an embraced meme. I think it was being used in 1959, just in countertops, not fingerboards. If they still called it Formica, it might go over really well on some retro Fenders with the car-based colors, no? They had to call it Richlite, like, because, hey, I want to be rich and light... Edited June 30, 2023 by badbluesplayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: They had to call it Richlite, ... Yea, they couldn't keep calling it particle board... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Murph said: Yea, they couldn't keep calling it particle board... Compressed sawdust and resin didn't fly as a name either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Fish Crumpet said: Some Fenders are finished in nitrocellulose lacquer. I'm fine with that. Damn I just looked and your right. But probably 85% (just a guess) are not. Nitrocellulose lacquer, as used on ‘50s and ‘60’s Fender instruments, is a premium finish that reveals the instrument’s true tonal character. This is from their website. Edited June 30, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Yeah, don't know how to describe it, but nitro finishes have a "softer" feel quality than poly. Can't speak for tonal characteristics either - how nitro and poly differ in this regard. But Epis are poly and Gibsons are typically nitro. An Epi LP has a different feel than a Gibson LP - and finish has something to do with this. In my hands, I believe I can tell most of the time what finish is on a guitar - and especially when I clean a guitar. I personally don't buy into the whole tone wood stuff so much - not for solid-body electrics at least. Pickups have a lot to do with this - and how they are configured/set-up. That's just me though and my opinion, others have thoughts on this, so don't want to debate tone wood benefits necessarily. I would tend to believe that acoustics are more sensitive to the wood selection as the bodies of these guitars are more responsible for projecting the sound itself. I don't do acoustics as much though, but know they are more elaborate to construct - when you get a good one. I simply don't think that it as profound on electrics for whatever certain woods do provide acoustically speaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) Another thing that Gibson has been doing is I believe since at least 2019, they have started calling their fretboards for their R9s as Bolivian Rosewood - which people mainly believe to be Pau Ferro. Not real RW - not even same species from what I have read online - FWIW. Branding... All it is I have to believe. I believe PF is used because of that CITES business, or whatever constrains certain countries form importing certain woods like "real" RW. They use Indian RW I guess today on their RW releases. But again, changing up a "historic" guitar and substituting new materials that aren't accurate depictions of the originals - and still selling for north of $6.5k. Brazilian RW is just INSANE expensive... But my biggest gripe is that they sell these woods on guitars and market them as better, good enough, whatever. If you spend that much for a reissue, it better be built like the originals. Again, my opinion, YMMV. But again another case though where PF probably works just as well as any RW, looks nice, and by God, it's REAL wood, haha! I remember seeing a discussion about this before. Took this into consideration when I looked at buying my R9, because you had the choice in the US for mainly Indian RW, but Bolivian RW (PF) was there too. This is why I buy guitars used... I'd have no problem with a PF R9 if the price was right. It actually has more of an ebony look - darker than that Indian RW by a little bit. It sucks for re-frets from what I've heard as you get a lot of chip-out. That could be a realistic down side if you ask me - given you are actually going to play the guitar enough to wear frets down - no case queen. Now if the R9 had Richlite, I'd pass. That's a stretch too far for me. I've got one Richlite guitar, haha! Not looking for any more. Edited June 30, 2023 by NighthawkChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, NighthawkChris said: Yeah, don't know how to describe it, but nitro finishes have a "softer" feel quality than poly. Can't speak for tonal characteristics either - how nitro and poly differ in this regard. But Epis are poly and Gibsons are typically nitro. An Epi LP has a different feel than a Gibson LP - and finish has something to do with this. In my hands, I believe I can tell most of the time what finish is on a guitar - and especially when I clean a guitar. I personally don't buy into the whole tone wood stuff so much - not for solid-body electrics at least. Pickups have a lot to do with this - and how they are configured/set-up. That's just me though and my opinion, others have thoughts on this, so don't want to debate tone wood benefits necessarily. I would tend to believe that acoustics are more sensitive to the wood selection as the bodies of these guitars are more responsible for projecting the sound itself. I don't do acoustics as much though, but know they are more elaborate to construct - when you get a good one. I simply don't think that it as profound on electrics for whatever certain woods do provide acoustically speaking. Initially I didn't much like nitro. Its volatile and doesn't protect or last like polys, but it does feel nice ! Acoustics: An old story when I bought my Fylde Oberon guitar in the 70s. Fylde weren't allowed to sell direct, but they had a bunch of imperfect 'seconds'. So I visited the workshop and spent quite a while there trying out these 'held back' guitars. There was one blond wood finish model that sounded delicate & beautiful. It may have been maple back & sides (all the tops were spruce). I was mesmerised by this thing. I was playing softly & it rewarded that. Then I started to pick harder, and it didn't respond at all. It still had that gentle sound. That ruined it for me. I choose a Indian rosewood back & sides one that responded properly. The woods are crucial for acoustics. Solid bodies? I'm of the opinion that woods might make a very small difference. But such a small difference that I cant be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 8:24 PM, Sgt. Pepper said: How many of your guitars have it? If none then . . . I have two electric guitars and one of them has a Richlite board so I do speak from experience with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Twang Gang said: I have two electric guitars and one of them has a Richlite board so I do speak from experience with it. I played my friends SG that had it. It’s just hard dark fake looking ebony. I suppose it served its purpose at the time, but we all know Gibson never would have used it unless they had to, and they had to. and we all know that. I don’t think it’s anything anyone would specifically ask for on an expensive custom made guitar. Right? Edited July 4, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) It is here, the Vintage Richlite Thread. You know, they just don't make counter top material like they used to. Back in 2015 they really knew what they were doing. They were motivated, the workforce was dedicated and so much of it was a black art lost to time. The old workers aren't there any more and they didn't keep records of the formulas and it was all done by hand. These guys (and girls) were skilled craftsmen. Henry J. used to walk through the plant and he knew everybody's name. Hey, Joe, how's the wife, how's the kids, where you goin' with that Richlite in your hand? Today, it's a whole different thing. Edited July 4, 2023 by SteveFord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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