Do The Beatles still hold up to modern music?

[Notes_Norton]

There are only two kinds of music:

1. Music that I like
2. Music made for someone else's ears

And there is no best anything that I can think of.

[DanvillRob]

34 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

My younger brother & I still write, play, sing & record.. We love doing it! We never left a gig empty handed, if you know what I mean…

My wife 'accepts' the fact that Groupies were part of the life...but she was pretty protective of me whenever I played after we met.

[Sheepdog1969]

18 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Being able to play an instrument, and money has always attracted women to rock stars. 

Look at Rik Ocasek  and Billy Joel. Both were marrred to supermodels. Nuff said.

It's the,"...and money" bit that carries the weight. That money came from fame, which was possible due to talent. Yet, talent, in and of itself, does not attract, "out of your league consorts". Fame and fortune derived from that talent, tend to be what attracts those who would not otherwise be physically attracted to an individual and/or respect their talent. (as I detailed above)  

[Notes_Norton]

1 minute ago, DanvillRob said:

My wife 'accepts' the fact that Groupies were part of the life...but she was pretty protective of me whenever I played after we met.

When I was on the road, we called them “Band-Aids”.

I hope they enjoyed me as much as I enjoyed them.

But now I'm married to a wonderful gal, so my Band-Aid days are over. Although I look back fondly on those days, I'm happy now and don't long for them at all.

Notes ♫

[DanvillRob]

58 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

If I had a nickel for every "life choice" I made as a young man, that ultimately used, "will this get me laid easier" as the deciding factor, I would be worth twice as much as I am now. Although I did not decide to learn guitar at 8 for this reason, I defiantly understood that playing my guitar at parties in High School, College, and beyond would give me a better chance with the fairer sex than playing my trombone at said gatherings, (even though I was an exponentially better trombone player than a guitar player,  back then).

But, as a cautionary tale; I have a dear, life long friend who is an incredible guitar player. He still plays lead for a band gigging a few nights a week in Chicago. He is 5' 8" and 100lbs soaking wet, who had no fashion sense or concerns about his looks. I remember sitting with him near Navy Pier on Chicago's lake front, on a perfect summer Saturday, as he played his acoustic amongst the throngs of  people there. As usual, he was "on", and effortlessly nailed everything he played. Yet not one person, let alone a "pretty girl", stopped to listen to him play. He did get many approving head nods, mostly from middle aged men passing by, but he defiantly wasn't getting the attention his skills deserved. He wasn't "performing" for tips, nor did he even have his case open for said. He was just playing because he liked to. After an hour or so of playing, a decent looking young guy came up and asked if he could play my friends guitar for a bit. This guy barely could play, but with-in minutes, an ever-growing crowd  of pretty women sat down to hear him butcher each tune. And, after he murdered the three songs he "knew", he handed the guitar back to my friend who calmly lit into some serious SRV. Despite my friend's solid rendition of "Voodoo Child", every single "pretty woman", walked away before the song ended. 

He, and I, knew at that moment that even exceptional guitar skills are no match for "good looks" for attracting women, especially in that type of setting. Thankfully, he eventually met and married a wonderful woman who appreciated all he had to offer, (and he did begin to care about his appearance.)

So, for those who may assume that it was only your guitar skills that attracted the opposite sex to you, (or that attracted anyone you found attractive to you), you may be better looking, (and possibly less skilled at guitar), than you think! As such, I must be massively attractive, because my guitar hackery cannot be appealing enough to account for the notches in my bed post! Yup, that's the story I'm going with.

I certainly don't credit myself with "movie star looks", but I always did 'okay' around the girls.    My first wife saw me at a gig.... and latched on to me.....(unfortunately, she 'latched on' to a few other musicians in the SF Bay Area too!).   I had my share of groupies during my playing days, but I'm far from achieving the status of Wilt Chamberland!

You're right...there HAS to be more to a guy than a guitar to attract women....but it doesn't have to be looks, (think Lyle Lovett & Julia Roberts).   It could be personality..... force of presence...... humor.....on and on.  

Most people don't know music, and aren't interested in whether someone can hit every lick in "Voodoo Child"....they just want to be entertained.

[DanvillRob]

7 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

When I was on the road, we called them “Band-Aids”.

I hope they enjoyed me as much as I enjoyed them.

But now I'm married to a wonderful gal, so my Band-Aid days are over. Although I look back fondly on those days, I'm happy now and don't long for them at all.

Notes ♫

HAHAHAHAHA.....back in the day we used to call our Roadie a Band-Aid.....and to tell you the truth, I never found him attractive in the least!   I got reacquainted with him 50 years later, (he was a salesman who sold to our company), and to tell you the truth.....I STILL didn't find him attractive in the least!

[Murph]

When I was gigging in the mid 70's at the tender age of 17, I became quite popular with women in the bars that were twice my age.

Nowadays they call them Coyotes. 

Back then I called it gaining experience....

Edited October 12, 2023 by Murph

[DanvillRob]

21 minutes ago, Murph said:

When I was gigging in the mid 70's at the tender age of 17, I became quite popular with women in the bars that were twice my age.

Nowadays they call them Coyotes. 

Back then I called it gaining experience....

Yanno.... my experience with an 'older woman' didn't happen until I was visited by an Avon Lady!   (and my music had NOTHING to do with it!).

Now.... "older ladies" are all much younger than me!

[Sheepdog1969]

1 minute ago, DanvillRob said:

I certainly don't credit myself with "movie star looks", but I always did 'okay' around the girls. 

OK, I agree that "attractiveness", especially from a woman's perspective, is a multi-faceted concept, where "self confidence" combined with other non-physical but positive gregarious personality traits may well be as or more important than looks. But, I still think that just being an amazing guitarist who is devoid of looks, personality, fame, fortune and self confidence (like my friend I wrote about) would have a hard time attracting women. And, as proof to your point, my friend only began to attract women once he began to build his own self-esteem and when he stopped assuming his guitar playing skills could replace his personality. Being shy, he only knew how to be emotive via his playing.

Yes, he is an example of an extreme case. I just simply wanted to point out that too many people undervalue most of the things that collectively make them awesome,  and overvalue just a few things that they assume define them, but really don't.    

[Sheepdog1969]

33 minutes ago, Murph said:

When I was gigging in the mid 70's at the tender age of 17, I became quite popular with women in the bars that were twice my age.

Nowadays they call them Coyotes. 

Back then I called it gaining experience....

For better or worse, modern culture would define those women, that were twice your age (when you were 17, who provided you with "experience" ), as pedophiles/rapists. Yet, I bet you never felt victimized. 

[DanvillRob]

45 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

For better or worse, modern culture would define those women, that were twice your age (when you were 17, who provided you with "experience" ), as pedophiles/rapists. Yet, I bet you never felt victimized. 

Hard to judge people from another era by today's morals.

My dad was 28 when he married my mom.....who was 14.  Today he'd go to jail.

They were married 50 years.

A hundred years from now, who knows what will be deemed 'uncivilized' or 'criminal'?

 

[Murph]

2 minutes ago, DanvillRob said:

A hundred years from now, who knows what will be deemed 'uncivilized' or 'criminal'?

Understatement of the day.

[MissouriPicker]

1 hour ago, Murph said:

Understatement of the day.

In the future there won’t be any guitars, etc.  No hacks, no pros.  Just songs written and played expertly by AI.   Musical instruments will be found in museums.  I’m glad I’m here now.

[jdgm]

Do The Beatles still hold up to modern music?

Yes and no.

I have lived about 30 miles South of London, England all my life.  I am there now.   I was 9 in 1963 when I noticed my elder sisters getting excited about The Beatles.  They brought colour and happiness to millions. 

English society was repressive, very ordered along class lines, and monochrome grey back then; for instance, I was sent to boarding schools from 1962 to '69.  My uniform was grey shirt, grey shorts (I wasn't allowed long trousers at school until 1967), grey socks, grey sweater, grey jacket, school tie and grey cap.   Everyone knew their place.  

TV was black and white - only 2 channels - and the radio was the BBC.  If you were lucky you had your own transistor radio and could just about tune in to Radio Luxembourg which was the only other option until 'pirate' radio started  (and BTW you STILL need a TV licence to watch live 'terrestrial' broadcast TV in this country to this day).

Pop  music was frowned upon and when they arrived the Rolling Stones were seen as a very serious threat to society itself. That is NO exaggeration at all.  The  UK music industry had for years been dominated by music publishers, contractors and svengali producers all of whom knew each other and were dedicated to keeping things the way they were.

The Beatles opened the door, revealing a chink and then a dazzling blaze of light which showed us - the 'younger generation' - a way out of the greyness and conformity.  I was there and I cannot emphasise this enough.  

As the Beatles began to make enormous profits for the record company and those publishers, they were allowed and then encouraged to write their own songs.  That and the presence of George Martin (who was a fine arranger with impeccable taste and a great producer with very high standards) allowed them to pull ahead of ALL the other bands.   However they were not attempting to write timeless classics but 3-minute ephemeral pop songs that had to be catchy so they would continue to sell.  The more they practiced, the better they got at it.

By 1966 they had honed and mastered their craft to such an extent that they had transmuted it into a genuine art form; "Eleanor Rigby" is art.  No-one was expecting that, or Martin's haunting string arrangement.  In a stroke of genius they paired the 45 RPM single of this track with "Yellow Submarine", a simple, light-hearted child-like singalong which is quintessential pop and showed they were still what they had been all along. 

Most Beatle experts now agree that the Beatles split at the right time.  By then they were no longer a team.  However their best songs 'still hold up to modern music' as they still are modern music.  

Frank Sinatra once said that  "Something" was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'.  

He said that after he had been singing the Great American Songbook for half a century. 

If a songwriter has a large output, it will necessarily be uneven.  You have to remember that until 1967 these were commercial pop songs written to sell.  It was when it became art that the game changed for them and for everybody else.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by jdgm

[Larsongs]

3 hours ago, jdgm said:

Do The Beatles still hold up to modern music?

Yes and no.

I have lived about 30 miles South of London, England all my life.  I am there now.   I was 9 in 1963 when I noticed my elder sisters getting excited about The Beatles.  They brought colour and happiness to millions. 

English society was repressive, very ordered along class lines, and monochrome grey back then; for instance, I was sent to boarding schools from 1962 to '69.  My uniform was grey shirt, grey shorts (I wasn't allowed long trousers at school until 1967), grey socks, grey sweater, grey jacket, school tie and grey cap.   Everyone knew their place.  

TV was black and white - only 2 channels - and the radio was the BBC.  If you were lucky you had your own transistor radio and could just about tune in to Radio Luxembourg which was the only other option until 'pirate' radio started  (and BTW you STILL need a TV licence to watch live 'terrestrial' broadcast TV in this country to this day).

Pop  music was frowned upon and when they arrived the Rolling Stones were seen as a very serious threat to society itself. That is NO exaggeration at all.  The  UK music industry had for years been dominated by music publishers, contractors and svengali producers all of whom knew each other and were dedicated to keeping things the way they were.

The Beatles opened the door, revealing a chink and then a dazzling blaze of light which showed us - the 'younger generation' - a way out of the greyness and conformity.  I was there and I cannot emphasise this enough.  

As the Beatles began to make enormous profits for the record company and those publishers, they were allowed and then encouraged to write their own songs.  That and the presence of George Martin (who was a fine arranger with impeccable taste and a great producer with very high standards) allowed them to pull ahead of ALL the other bands.   However they were not attempting to write timeless classics but 3-minute ephemeral pop songs that had to be catchy so they would continue to sell.  The more they practiced, the better they got at it.

By 1966 they had honed and mastered their craft to such an extent that they had transmuted it into a genuine art form; "Eleanor Rigby" is art.  No-one was expecting that, or Martin's haunting string arrangement.  In a stroke of genius they paired the 45 RPM single of this track with "Yellow Submarine", a simple, light-hearted child-like singalong which is quintessential pop and showed they were still what they had been all along. 

Most Beatle experts now agree that the Beatles split at the right time.  By then they were no longer a team.  However their best songs 'still hold up to modern music' as they still are modern music.  

Frank Sinatra once said that  "Something" was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'.  

He said that after he had been singing the Great American Songbook for half a century. 

If a songwriter has a large output, it will necessarily be uneven.  You have to remember that until 1967 these were commercial pop songs written to sell.  It was when it became art that the game changed for them and for everybody else.

 

 

A Great Commercial Pop Song that makes Money is Art! There are many..

[Ceptorman]

11 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

A Great Commercial Pop Song that makes Money is Art! There are many..

You can hear the music of Buddy Holly in commercials even today.

['Scales]

Cool, the Gibson Lounge is now defining what constitutes Art!! 

What a magical mystical fantastical place we populate here! 

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, 'Scales said:

Cool, the Gibson Lounge is now defining what constitutes Art!! 

What a magical mystical fantastical place we populate here! 

Everyone knows real Art when they see, hear or touch it… You don’t need “no” Degree!

[Notes_Norton]

Back to the girls (intoxicants)

When I was a kid, I wanted to play music. My father played violin, trumpet, and ukulele. Later in life, he played a Hammond Organ.

I actually wanted to play Baritone Horn (Euphonium) because it has a beautiful voice. But it was a small town back then and all the instruments were rented.

So, like all the other overflow musicians, I got a pair of drumsticks and a practice pad. In retrospect, learning to play the drums has been a great asset for me, and I think all pop musicians should learn at least the first dozen rudiments and how to keep time on a drum kit.

Eventually, the tenor saxophonist's family moved, and the band director asked who would like to play the saxophone? I guess I was more enthusiastic about it than the others. I just wanted to play anything that could play a melody.

At that point in time, (7th grade) I had no idea that some women would be attracted to pop musicians.

Well, as I got better, a few of my friends and I formed a rock band. We were terrible, but everybody was terrible back then.

We got our first job, playing for a Jr. High School dance.

There I was, on stage, with my best friends at the time, doing our best to cover the hit songs of the day. I looked off the stage and much to my surprise, that cute girl who didn't even acknowledge my existence in English class, was 'making eyes' at me!!!!!!!!! I was having one of the best days of my life so far, and at the end of the night, they actually paid me money!!!!!!!!!

That's when I said, “This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.”

And I've been lucky enough to do just that. I did have two 'day jobs' in my life, still gigging on the weekends, when I was testing out what it was to be normal. I found normal to be quite overrated. Neither one lasted all that long.

Now I'm past retirement age, still gigging, married to a fantastic singer who also plays guitar and synth, and still having the best days of my life.

 

Notes ♫

[DanvillRob]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

Back to the girls (intoxicants)

When I was a kid, I wanted to play music. My father played violin, trumpet, and ukulele. Later in life, he played a Hammond Organ.

I actually wanted to play Baritone Horn (Euphonium) because it has a beautiful voice. But it was a small town back then and all the instruments were rented.

So, like all the other overflow musicians, I got a pair of drumsticks and a practice pad. In retrospect, learning to play the drums has been a great asset for me, and I think all pop musicians should learn at least the first dozen rudiments and how to keep time on a drum kit.

Eventually, the tenor saxophonist's family moved, and the band director asked who would like to play the saxophone? I guess I was more enthusiastic about it than the others. I just wanted to play anything that could play a melody.

At that point in time, (7th grade) I had no idea that some women would be attracted to pop musicians.

Well, as I got better, a few of my friends and I formed a rock band. We were terrible, but everybody was terrible back then.

We got our first job, playing for a Jr. High School dance.

There I was, on stage, with my best friends at the time, doing our best to cover the hit songs of the day. I looked off the stage and much to my surprise, that cute girl who didn't even acknowledge my existence in English class, was 'making eyes' at me!!!!!!!!! I was having one of the best days of my life so far, and at the end of the night, they actually paid me money!!!!!!!!!

That's when I said, “This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.”

And I've been lucky enough to do just that. I did have two 'day jobs' in my life, still gigging on the weekends, when I was testing out what it was to be normal. I found normal to be quite overrated. Neither one lasted all that long.

Now I'm past retirement age, still gigging, married to a fantastic singer who also plays guitar and synth, and still having the best days of my life.

 

Notes ♫

What a great story....and a beautiful life!

Speaking of "everybody was terrible", I was in a pretty popular band.... a friend of mine booked a dance at a high school, but he had no band.    I knew nothing about this until the day before the scheduled gig....he came to me and told me what he did....and that he had found a drummer, a guitarist and he would play bass, but they didn't know any songs....and he BEGGED me to come play with them!    No practice, and I didn't even know half the guys in the band.  Anyway, SOMEHOW we made it through a 3-hour dance.... the kids didn't seem to mind. Recently, I was talking with a girl who was at that dance and said she had no idea we sucked!

As a kid I always wanted to be a business man...my dad was a truck driver, and I wanted a white-collar job...never even thought about being a musician.   So, I had a 'day job' for 53 years, (I don't count my years working in the music store...those were fantastic years in my life!).   Anyway, I made a good life for me and my family....I married a girl who never saw me play on stage or in a group until 2007 when a book on SF Bay Area Bands was released.

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:38 PM, Larsongs said:

Everyone knows real Art when they see, hear or touch it… You don’t need “no” Degree!

I know porn when I see it but it’s hard to describe. Well not it’s not it people on camera doing the old in out in out with little to no clothes on. 

I saw in an interview years ago, Steven Morrissy (who I loath) said “Art Is What You Make Of It”.

Music is art just done with sound instead of with paint and canvas, or a slab granite and a chisel.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[Notes_Norton]

On 10/14/2023 at 12:20 PM, DanvillRob said:

As a kid I always wanted to be a business man...my dad was a truck driver, and I wanted a white-collar job...never even thought about being a musician.   So, I had a 'day job' for 53 years, (I don't count my years working in the music store...those were fantastic years in my life!).

Lucky you.

If you make a living doing what you want to do, you are one of the few truly lucky people.

Notes ♫

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:00 PM, jdgm said:

Frank Sinatra once said that  "Something" was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'.  

He did and he said this too. I remember Paul talking about it on the Anthology series. Paul was on his (he was Captaining in) boat getting interviewed. 

Of course, this is a subjective question with a subjective answer, but Frank Sinatra did once say that The Beatles' 'Something' was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'. Then again, he also said it was his favorite Lennon/McCartney tune (when of course it was written by George Harrison).

Edited October 18, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[E-minor7]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:00 PM, jdgm said:

Do The Beatles still hold up to modern music?

Yes and no.

I have lived about 30 miles South of London, England all my life.  I am there now.   I was 9 in 1963 when I noticed my elder sisters getting excited about The Beatles.  They brought colour and happiness to millions. 

English society was repressive, very ordered along class lines, and monochrome grey back then; for instance, I was sent to boarding schools from 1962 to '69.  My uniform was grey shirt, grey shorts (I wasn't allowed long trousers at school until 1967), grey socks, grey sweater, grey jacket, school tie and grey cap.   Everyone knew their place.  

TV was black and white - only 2 channels - and the radio was the BBC.  If you were lucky you had your own transistor radio and could just about tune in to Radio Luxembourg which was the only other option until 'pirate' radio started  (and BTW you STILL need a TV licence to watch live 'terrestrial' broadcast TV in this country to this day).

Pop  music was frowned upon and when they arrived the Rolling Stones were seen as a very serious threat to society itself. That is NO exaggeration at all.  The  UK music industry had for years been dominated by music publishers, contractors and svengali producers all of whom knew each other and were dedicated to keeping things the way they were.

The Beatles opened the door, revealing a chink and then a dazzling blaze of light which showed us - the 'younger generation' - a way out of the greyness and conformity.  I was there and I cannot emphasise this enough.  

As the Beatles began to make enormous profits for the record company and those publishers, they were allowed and then encouraged to write their own songs.  That and the presence of George Martin (who was a fine arranger with impeccable taste and a great producer with very high standards) allowed them to pull ahead of ALL the other bands.   However they were not attempting to write timeless classics but 3-minute ephemeral pop songs that had to be catchy so they would continue to sell.  The more they practiced, the better they got at it.

By 1966 they had honed and mastered their craft to such an extent that they had transmuted it into a genuine art form; "Eleanor Rigby" is art.  No-one was expecting that, or Martin's haunting string arrangement.  In a stroke of genius they paired the 45 RPM single of this track with "Yellow Submarine", a simple, light-hearted child-like singalong which is quintessential pop and showed they were still what they had been all along. 

Most Beatle experts now agree that the Beatles split at the right time.  By then they were no longer a team.  However their best songs 'still hold up to modern music' as they still are modern music.  

Frank Sinatra once said that  "Something" was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'.  

He said that after he had been singing the Great American Songbook for half a century. 

If a songwriter has a large output, it will necessarily be uneven.  You have to remember that until 1967 these were commercial pop songs written to sell.  It was when it became art that the game changed for them and for everybody else.

 

 

Very well written, , , seen and thought. Still you focus more on the historical aspect than the Q about whether the music stands the tests of time.  

What we have to consider is that their catalogue has been updated sonically as the years rolled by. A serious remastering was launched in 2009 and in this phase another PLUS ! , , a step-by-step remix (previously almost tabu) takes place. 

In that that light the technical level holds up and thereby gives the music the best possibilities to survive and not end up as museum-pieces. Well, some of them will, , , but luckily the euvre is so wide that songs will fall in different categories. Some may be treasures of a long gone era, others will land in the almost magical mix between bein' old but fresh (simply due to the spirit on the tracks). And not few will stand as timeless icons, which many many different people and age-groups will choose and lend ears again and again. 

Important question would be : To which degree are the lyrics in the way ?                                                                                                                                              Is Hey Jude fx too weird to rise as collective anthem (apart from the sing-along-end-section of course). Is Come Together. . 
Will Yesterday 'work' as a gorgeous melody, but in many connections collapse due to the words.                                                                                Are Penny Lane and Eleanor Rigby too socially detailed to really be a signal - Lennon too surrealistic. 

Don't worry, people will find and dig them, but as cultural landmarks even unifying hymns, there is a chance Harrison will lift the torch. And if Something appears to be too narrow, Here Comes the  ☼ shall proudly take over. .  

[E-minor7]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:00 PM, jdgm said:

Frank Sinatra once said that  "Something" was 'the greatest love song of the last fifty years'.  

                           Who is Frank Sinatra, , ,  

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                 but a smart businessman with tone .