Gibson’s VOS finish

[rbpicker]

I am a huge Gibson fan, dating back to 1963 when I bought my first one.  I currently have three great current model Gibsons.  I am a little bewildered, however, by Gibson’s VOS finish characteristics. 

Their rendition of an aged finish is a rough semi gloss finish that, to me, looks quite odd.  It’s been hand rubbed to its semi gloss state, apparently, but has a rough surface texture.  I don’t ever recall seeing an original Gibson through the years whose finish looked like that.  Maybe I’ve missed something along the way, but every Gibson I’ve seen and owned had a smooth finish, however dulled and scratched it may have become over the years.  

Other makers seem to be achieving an aged look while still maintaining a smooth-to-the-touch finish.  What am I missing?

Roger

Edited October 15, 2023 by rbpicker

[E-minor7]

Your observation is recognized. From this angle at least 2 versions are seen :

The even surface on the True Vintage models which is a gloss turned matt -

And the newer torrified models that seem to be slightly rougher - probably explained by the fact they feature an even thinner layer of lacquer.

I haven't yet met the brand fresh reliced so called Murphy-models, but they could be something third.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This light aged version* doesn't show it - https://www.thomann.de/dk/gibson_1960_hummingbird_light_aged.htm

                                                                                                                                                                               , , but one have to check it in the varied lighting fx on film. So again - the Tube calls. . 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               *What a beaut by the way. 

 

[E-minor7]

Not sure what we/you see here -

 

[E-minor7]

1 minute ago, E-minor7 said:

Not sure what we/you see here -

But we hear JT's book mentioned. . 

[Murph]

Follow the money.

[Larsongs]

12 hours ago, rbpicker said:

I am a huge Gibson fan, dating back to 1963 when I bought my first one.  I currently have three great current model Gibsons.  I am a little bewildered, however, by Gibson’s VOS finish characteristics. 

Their rendition of an aged finish is a rough semi gloss finish that, to me, looks quite odd.  It’s been hand rubbed to its semi gloss state, apparently, but has a rough surface texture.  I don’t ever recall seeing an original Gibson through the years whose finish looked like that.  Maybe I’ve missed something along the way, but every Gibson I’ve seen and owned had a smooth finish, however dulled and scratched it may have become over the years.  

Other makers seem to be achieving an aged look while still maintaining a smooth-to-the-touch finish.  What am I missing?

Roger

I agree. In 1969 I bought a mid 50’s Les Paul Special from a Pawn Shop in D.C. It had been rode hard but it still had a High Gloss Finish.. In the ‘80’s I bought a 1959 Gibson ES-345 Stereo in pristine condition & it had a super High Gloss finish.. 

[zombywoof]

My understanding is that the VOS finish is thinner with Gibson shooting only around 1/2 the number of coats they usually do while it is not buffed out to a high gloss.  Ironically this should result in less cost to Gibson as not as much material and time is involved.

As a rule though, back in the day Gibson applied the finish in thick even coats because it would lose half its thickness in the first year alone as it dried.  No need to do that these days as what they are shooting ain't your granddaddy's nitro. 

I am a very simple though when it comes to at least bursts.  I want to see the grain through the blackest black of that burst.

[slimt]

I think the VOS aged look looks awful.    
however. Gibson does have the best sunburst technique  .  

Edited October 15, 2023 by slimt

[bobouz]

See my two related posts re your similar question on UMGF.

[Larsongs]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:46 AM, zombywoof said:

My understanding is that the VOS finish is thinner with Gibson shooting only around 1/2 the number of coats they usually do while it is not buffed out to a high gloss.  Ironically this should result in less cost to Gibson as not as much material and time is involved.

As a rule though, back in the day Gibson applied the finish in thick even coats because it would lose half its thickness in the first year alone as it dried.  No need to do that these days as what they are shooting ain't your granddaddy's nitro. 

I am a very simple though when it comes to at least bursts.  I want to see the grain through the blackest black of that burst.

Calling it VOS is incorrect as that is not how 50’s & even older Guitars looked.. Maybe some look that way now because of poor care.. But, one that has been cared for half way decent is usually High Gloss.. It’s a marketing gimmick to make Guitars more profitable…

[E-minor7]

5 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Calling it VOS is incorrect as that is not how 50’s & even older Guitars looked.. Maybe some look that way now because of poor care.. But, one that has been cared for half way decent is usually High Gloss.. It’s a marketing gimmick to make Guitars more profitable…

Absolutely right - as mentioned quite often back when the TV Birds and others were discussed here a lot, the old real vintage guitars shine like jewels if treated with care. However they turn matt in a pretty kool way after hard use or fx after receiving wrong polish. And yes there are all kinds of stages between those 2 extremes. 

[E-minor7]

This film is only 1 hour old - don't know how to characterize the finish, but there is some fine playing to be heard.

 

[BoSoxBiker]

I've got two of these VOS finishes. HC PW J-200 and HC Banner J-45. I kind of smirked at the clever marketing making a win out of a production savings. Kudos for Marketing and Production working together?  (chuckle)

Anyhow, I dug the first one more than the second one, but I do like them both these days. The off-putting bits certainly are as described above. The cool bit, for me, is the seemingly extra bit of that Orange Peel color in the burst. I like that better than the bursts with more yellow in it.

 

 

 

[J-1854Me]

I agree with the criticism of the "VOS" finish, especially on the acoustic Gibsons.  I cannot stand that orange-peely texture.  The guitars sound good to great, but the finish texture is abysmal, IMO.

My actual vintage Gibsons do not exhibit that at all; why the big G decided to go with that ugly finish is beyond me.

Fred

 

 

[slimt]

2 hours ago, J-1854Me said:

I agree with the criticism of the "VOS" finish, especially on the acoustic Gibsons.  I cannot stand that orange-peely texture.  The guitars sound good to great, but the finish texture is abysmal, IMO.

My actual vintage Gibsons do not exhibit that at all; why the big G decided to go with that ugly finish is beyond me.

Fred

 

 

I think the process with spraying clear through the electrostatic is why there not turning out properly , i ve noticed over the years. Paint manufactures are turning to a process  that requires a UV lamp drying process  , UV clear will dry in 10 minutes making it manageable. Where the old way of nitro spraying and drying takes ours to days. If the  product is sprayed electrostaticly ,with a texture. The Uv dries it out so fast it does not have time to flatten out.  Ive heard of this process for a few years. They als have a UV primer that will fill in grain very fast,,  sand very easy then apply colors 

[J-1854Me]

20 hours ago, slimt said:

I think the process with spraying clear through the electrostatic is why there not turning out properly , i ve noticed over the years. Paint manufactures are turning to a process  that requires a UV lamp drying process  , UV clear will dry in 10 minutes making it manageable. Where the old way of nitro spraying and drying takes ours to days. If the  product is sprayed electrostaticly ,with a texture. The Uv dries it out so fast it does not have time to flatten out.  Ive heard of this process for a few years. They als have a UV primer that will fill in grain very fast,,  sand very easy then apply colors 

I'm not sure, slimt -- my understanding from Gibson was that "there's not enough layers to effectively buff the finish without burning through it...".  At least, that's what I was told.  When I asked about getting a few done up with MORE coats of lacquer so that they COULD gloss buff it, I was quoted an extra $750 - $1000 out-the-door.  Go figure.

[slimt]

2 hours ago, J-1854Me said:

I'm not sure, slimt -- my understanding from Gibson was that "there's not enough layers to effectively buff the finish without burning through it...".  At least, that's what I was told.  When I asked about getting a few done up with MORE coats of lacquer so that they COULD gloss buff it, I was quoted an extra $750 - $1000 out-the-door.  Go figure.

Yup they would go through to the wood. Rough texture there applying shows that.  

that cost to buff out is crazy.  But in the same token there charging more for less , 

I spray electrostatic  finishes on Aircraft. Not a easy process on a large item let alone a small guitar   Electrostatic falls onto the item.   Where air sprayers push the product on which can be controlled easier .  
 

now with UV Clears with a curing system. Thats another issue.   To many coats will cause failure.  Laying it down properly takes patients.  
 

[BluesKing777]

What about someone inventing a finish that repels dirt, grime, fingerprints! 😃 ?

And the same for my car - I am fairly sure my car paint attracts dirt! Drive off in the ran and it gets clean? Not dirtier!

And if that won’t work, what about a finish that you wipe over once with a t-shirt? For guitar AND car!

I went through the ‘thin finish’ with lots of others around 10 years ago, but I recently decided I like a big, glooopy, fat gloss! It looks good when it is 20 or so years old. - what will the VOS and Murph Lab stuff look like at 30? Need a new coat or 2?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by BluesKing777

[cayine]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:15 AM, rbpicker said:

I am a huge Gibson fan, dating back to 1963 when I bought my first one.  I currently have three great current model Gibsons.  I am a little bewildered, however, by Gibson’s VOS finish characteristics. 

Their rendition of an aged finish is a rough semi gloss finish that, to me, looks quite odd.  It’s been hand rubbed to its semi gloss state, apparently, but has a rough surface texture.  I don’t ever recall seeing an original Gibson through the years whose finish looked like that.  Maybe I’ve missed something along the way, but every Gibson I’ve seen and owned had a smooth finish, however dulled and scratched it may have become over the years.  

Other makers seem to be achieving an aged look onto black friday solar panel deals while still maintaining a smooth-to-the-touch finish.  What am I missing?

Roger

I like the VOS series and owned a few of the original VOS and I'm wondering what exactly does Gibson do to give the VOS paint finish.

Edited October 30, 2023 by cayine

[rct]

They don't fill the grain.  That's the "rough" feel, that's the dull finish.  Don't fill the grain.  That is all.  You are getting had, like everything else in life.

rct

[E-minor7]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:01 AM, cayine said:

I like the VOS series and owned a few of the original VOS and I'm wondering what exactly does Gibson do to give the VOS paint finish.

                                                                                                        Isn't the trick that they don't buff it all the way. . 

[Silversurfer]

This thread is a little past its “best before” date,  but thought I’d add my recent experience with a Custom Shop Hummingbird 1960 Fixed Bridge model.  The orange peel only appears on the top. You can see and feel the grain the back and sides, but it doesn’t have any of the “pebbled” appearance that’s happening on the top.  The back of neck is also  clear of any orange peel and feels really nice,  much like the nitro finish on a vintage guitar. I wonder if the orange peel is something that has to do with how the nitro adheres to the spruce, as it doesn’t seem to be visible anywhere else.  I’ve come to appreciate the VOS finish on Gibson’s Custom Shop reissue acoustic models. But it is surprising the first time you see it. 

[E-minor7]

12 hours ago, Silversurfer said:

This thread is a little past its “best before” date,  but thought I’d add my recent experience with a Custom Shop Hummingbird 1960 Fixed Bridge model.  The orange peel only appears on the top. You can see and feel the grain the back and sides, but it doesn’t have any of the “pebbled” appearance that’s happening on the top.  The back of neck is also  clear of any orange peel and feels really nice,  much like the nitro finish on a vintage guitar. I wonder if the orange peel is something that has to do with how the nitro adheres to the spruce, as it doesn’t seem to be visible anywhere else.  I’ve come to appreciate the VOS finish on Gibson’s Custom Shop reissue acoustic models. But it is surprising the first time you see it. 

 

The thread isn't dated at all. 'Pebbled appearance', , , great expression - and I must admit it looks a bit peculiar. As if something in the process merged a little out of control.

Nice pictures too ^

[Silversurfer]

3 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

The thread isn't dated at all. 'Pebbled appearance', , , great expression - and I must admit it looks a bit peculiar. As if something in the process merged a little out of control.

Nice pictures too ^

That’s the weird thing - it’s just on the top and the back and sides feel right. It’s like they figured it out for mahogany but it didn’t work as well for spruce.  Regardless, the guitars do sound amazing.

[E-minor7]

17 minutes ago, Silversurfer said:

That’s the weird thing - it’s just on the top and the back and sides feel right. It’s like they figured it out for mahogany but it didn’t work as well for spruce.  Regardless, the guitars do sound amazing.

Good - the pebbles are no aesthetical disaster. . 

                    And probably comes wilder across on the photo.