E-minor7 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Inspired by the posts in the rose hog maple thread about owning a guitar or being owned by it, it dawned on me that neither really are ideal. The guitar is by nature an instrument with a logic that invites you and your fingers to do certain things - discover patterns, moves, licks, etc., which all lie hidden on the f-board. . . There's a reason Ralph McTell said he was lucky to be the one who took Streets of London down, , , , because it was already waiting there. What should be considered is the challenge of meeting the guitar half way - meaning you learn to understand what it offers and the then wish/call/order/demand something the other way as well. This is in my view the holy key. Represented by fx J. Browne and J. Taylor, but also Stills and Young to mention some well known players. Maybe a John Fahey would be in the other group : The ones that primarily press their own subjective ideas over the guitars - and almost steer or control them under strict command, , , actually with too little sensitivity towards the physical and spiritual potentials/values within the wooden creatures themselves. Well, just a thought - some of you may find it over-done, , , but give it a chance. . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Well said. My guitars own me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 I enjoy bringing in something new and spending time circling it while it seemingly taunts me with "C'mon, you can do better than that." My biggest issue was I would get hung up on the idea of a guitar. Initially it had to be a Martin not because I knew one from a can of tuna but I associated them with real genuine folkies. It was like owning a Martin would grant me admittance to what I saw as an elite club. But I am much better now. I have finally reached the point where for whatever reason I cannot dredge up the emotion about instruments I used to. I knew I was liberated when I walked into a high-end shop and sat down and played a 1930s Larson Bros. guitar, a 1957 Gibson J50, a couple of Huss & Daltons, and a few other boutique instruments. Even though I could afford them, I walked away not only with one twinge of regret but with the feeling it seemed just plain silly to spend that kind of scratch on a guitar. So, I think I can safely say that while I see my guitars as a wonderous combination of art and a tool which provide me with something I still need, they do not own me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 I have 3 'Trophy Wife' guitars. Have, over the years gotten to the point I can say we are equals. They've gotten a little old, I'be gotten a little better. Working together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Frankly, there are times I think some of us are prone to owning too many guitars; in that case, they own us. If you’re a bona fide collector then, yeah, owning lots of guitars is what you do. But how many guitars does the average player really need? I’ve got two really nice guitars — a handmade D-18 clone and a J-35 — and one that’s pretty darn good, a Farida OT-22. There are times I think I could get by just fine with the OT-22. Plugged in (with a Baggs M1) it is great. Stays in tune forever, good tone/volume and easy to play. Records well. As they say, it’s 90-percent of an LG-2 at a fraction of the cost. The guitar is just a tool. Yeah, it’s nice to have good tools, but it doesn’t make your songs any more authentic. I think of all the great old blues guys who made great music with whatever guitar they could afford at the time. The older I get, the less stuff I want. Living and moving abroad over the past decade has taught me that if I’m unwilling to lug it through an airport, I probably don’t need it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieDog Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Nice thoughts, great song, thanks Eminor for the thread, and the echos in the comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 I've owned a couple of hundred guitars in the last 45 years, from brand new to ancient relic, including a number of trainwrecks I spend good money having luthiers put back together. I spent a lot of time and money in the vintage guitar catch-and-release program until the money got crazy. I have had times when I had a specific guitar model in mind because I wanted a specific sound - but it was usually because I was emulating a specific sound or style I had heard. I've written before, here and in other places, about how certain old guitars just seem to sort of nudge you into a musical direction. The c.1931 round-hole L-4 archtop with the patches in the top and sides and half the finish gone seemed to sing especially well on interwar pop songs that are now standards, for instance, and did great old-time country and blues. Other times, you felt something that might have been a combination of craftsmanship and years of making music with a really gifted player - the '49 D'Angelico I played once comes to mind, perhaps THE most resonant guitar I have ever played. That one was a near-religious experience. I don't regret all those vintage and other guitars, either. They were an education, and all the different instruments and tones and pursuing sounds I liked after hearing them on records taught me so much. I was purposely looking for guitars that had a certain sound or vibe, again usually because I wanted to sound like someone I admired. My current guitar of the last nearly 17 years is still a mystery to me. On the surface, it's a bog-standard J-45 built in 2005, gussied up ever so slightly with a "Historic Collection" decal on the back of the headstock, one of a run of 670 made in 2005-2006 for Gibson 5-star dealers. I put my hand on it to lift it off the pegs on a Guitar Center wall and just knew. Intellectually I can tell myself that the neck carve matches my memory of the 1960 LG-2 I played my first solo acoustic gigs with, and that the tone captures the things I loved about old Gibson jumbos I have played in my lifetime. But that is not the complete picture. The very first night I had this guitar, I felt pulled to blur the lines between what I had flatpicked for decades and what I played with my bare fingers. Over the next couple of years the flatpicks went away, and I found myself taking everything I had ever learned about different people's styles and refining it into my own style. Sure, you can hear all the influences, but everything is blended now into what I feel and what I want to say when I play now. I love that it has the classic Gibson J-45 sound, but there are other things there as well. There's a breathy vocal quality to it as the notes decay that when coupled with the midrange boost the archtop DNA provides has changed how I play. I used to sing on top of a guitar like the vocal and the playing were separate things. Now I sing more with the guitar, frequently playing fewer notes but letting them bloom like another voice. Financially it didn't hurt to let the other guitars go - I sold the Baby Taylor, the Seagull S6 and the exquisite Kremona Fiesta FS classical, gave the shockingly good Farida OT-22 to my son - but in the end, really, it was more about, "I absolutely love this J-45, why would I play anything else?" 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 I come to the guitar hobby from all angles. I love music as a listener, especially when played on guitar. I love guitars as material objects and as pieces of art. I love them as songwriting tools. I wish I was a good enough musician to be able to make a guitar do what I want it to do. I'm not, so instead my approach is to search the fretboard for something that I think sounds good and could be part of a new song. Most of my small riffs and licks have come when I sit watching TV with a guitar in my lap just trying new things, aimlessly looking for something new. So for me the guitar is a safe with a great treasure inside, to which only a tiny part of the lock number combination is known. Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) If you paid money for the guitar - you own it. If the guitar was given to you - you own it. Playing the guitar may be a chore, or you may not be very good at it, and this is where the "the guitar owns you" saying might have come from, but it doesn't. I guess it may be the same as - handle your drugs or your drugs will handle you. Edited October 19, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 4:20 PM, E-minor7 said: Inspired by the posts in the rose hog maple thread about owning a guitar or being owned by it, it dawned on me that neither really are ideal. The guitar is by nature an instrument with a logic that invites you and your fingers to do certain things - discover patterns, moves, licks, etc., which all lie hidden on the f-board. . . There's a reason Ralph McTell said he was lucky to be the one who took Streets of London down, , , , because it was already waiting there. What should be considered is the challenge of meeting the guitar half way - meaning you learn to understand what it offers and the then wish/call/order/demand something the other way as well. This is in my view the holy key. Represented by fx J. Browne and J. Taylor, but also Stills and Young to mention some well known players. Maybe a John Fahey would be in the other group : The ones that primarily press their own subjective ideas over the guitars - and almost steer or control them under strict command, , , actually with too little sensitivity towards the physical and spiritual potentials/values within the wooden creatures themselves. Well, just a thought - some of you may find it over-done, , , but give it a chance. . I agree.. There is also a point where the Guitar is a Conduit between the Player & the Cosmos.. Sometimes a Song comes through that is already done.. It's the Player's job just to play it & write down.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Larsongs said: I agree.. There is also a point where the Guitar is a Conduit between the Player & the Cosmos.. Sometimes a Song comes through that is already done.. It's the Player's job just to play it & write down.. 💥 💥 💥 . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 19 hours ago, rustystrings said: My current guitar of the last nearly 17 years is still a mystery to me. That's the way my 20+ year old J-45 rosewood/ebony hit me, nearly 20 years ago. It changed everything about how I play, and I had already been gigging for decades. I found the magic stairwell in a 100+ year old house I had bought and eventually moved into. My electric gigging days were over within a few years. I became obsessed with acoustic music, from blues to bluegrass to folk/roots, all things acoustic. Guitar forums were a new thing back then and everybody had opinions on which woods would sound like what and what guitar to play for certain music and blah, blah, blah. Twenty some odd years later all I can add is that there are truly no rules. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 This thread sort of spun off from the "Which ToneWood do you prefer?" thread. 7 or 8 years ago, I asked the lead guitar guy for a Top 20 Country Performer (who played only acoustics on stage) which tone wood he preferred - Mahogany or Rosewood. He said he didn't have a preference, and looked like 'WTF' ??? I have a guitar I prefer for the sound. But a different one for 'feel'. And the third for all round enjoyment. All different back and sides. Also different body shapes, necks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 9 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: This thread sort of spun off from the "Which ToneWood do you prefer?" thread. 7 or 8 years ago, I asked the lead guitar guy for a Top 20 Country Performer (who played only acoustics on stage) which tone wood he preferred - Mahogany or Rosewood. He said he didn't have a preference, and looked like 'WTF' ??? I have a guitar I prefer for the sound. But a different one for 'feel'. And the third for all round enjoyment. All different back and sides. Also different body shapes, necks, etc. Yes, as mentioned in post #1. Only 7-8 years. I would have thought it was before the great worldwide acoustic epiphany, which took off plus/minus the millennium. Did this guy have interest in braces, , , did he know about them and what they mean at all. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 There is an interesting discussion in the video below about the very topic of this thread starting at the 36:30 minute mark and reappearing several times in the video from that point on. By the way, Johnny Marr, who might not be as known in the U.S. as in Europe, is all about melody and serving the song. I love his approach and his unique and inspirational style and he is my favorite guitar player. If you care to hear his style, check out the second clip. Lars 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 On 10/20/2023 at 6:25 AM, fortyearspickn said: This thread sort of spun off from the "Which ToneWood do you prefer?" thread. 7 or 8 years ago, I asked the lead guitar guy for a Top 20 Country Performer (who played only acoustics on stage) which tone wood he preferred - Mahogany or Rosewood. He said he didn't have a preference, and looked like 'WTF' ??? I have a guitar I prefer for the sound. But a different one for 'feel'. And the third for all round enjoyment. All different back and sides. Also different body shapes, necks, etc. It doesn’t matter for some Guys.. They can take a cheap, warped, flood victim Guitar & make it sound incredible! I know such a Guy & he did! It was my brothers Ovation that his ExWife through in the Pool & he didn’t know for 3 days.. Our Lead Guitarist used it to play the Lead one of the Records we recorded.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Larsongs said: It doesn’t matter for some Guys.. They can take a cheap, warped, flood victim Guitar & make it sound incredible! I know such a Guy & he did! It was my brothers Ovation that his ExWife through in the Pool & he didn’t know for 3 days.. Well, the posting of that video explains your forum I.D. name, and the Ovation in the Pool certainly explains the "ex" in the ex- wife" part. 🙂. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 On 10/17/2023 at 7:20 PM, E-minor7 said: which all lie hidden on the f-board. . . . . . . There's a reason Ralph McTell said he was lucky to be the one who took Streets of London down, , , , because it was already waiting there. What should be considered is the challenge of meeting the guitar half way - meaning you learn to understand what it offers and the then wish/call/order/demand something the other way as well. . . . Such a difficult topic to put a finger on . . . Not a chance to be a "which came first ? " question. . . there's such an interplay between so many things- not just the guitar, the singer, or the song. Or even the moment (the times). Songs come to be through so many routes- to express a sound, a story, or emotion, or to evoke a mood. Lars68's clip at t = 36:30> showed how songs can be inspired by not just a guitar's sound, but by some signal processing, as well. And on top of that, people will hear into it what they want to hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Lars68 said: There is an interesting discussion in the video below about the very topic of this thread starting at the 36:30 minute mark and reappearing several times in the video from that point on. Wow - never saw that, , , but absolutely know Marr and the Smiths. Bought their first records when they came out almost 40 years ago and found them very refreshing. Good post, 68 ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 21, 2023 Author Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, 62burst said: Such a difficult topic to put a finger on . . . Not a chance to be a "which came first ? " question. . . there's such an interplay between so many things- not just the guitar, the singer, or the song. Or even the moment (the times). Songs come to be through so many routes- to express a sound, a story, or emotion, or to evoke a mood. Lars68's clip at t = 36:30> showed how songs can be inspired by not just a guitar's sound, but by some signal processing, as well. And on top of that, people will hear into it what they want to hear. Yes, when really X-raying the process of songwriting in a broader even 'full' perspective, everything must be considered and counted in, , , like the weather or the war or the hue of your neighbors bird*. A bit easier to get around it when cooking things down to the man'n'machine aspect. * means of course H-bird too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 47 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Yes, when really X-raying the process of songwriting in a broader even 'full' perspective, everything must be considered and counted in, , , like the weather or the war or the hue of your neighbors bird*. . . . A bit easier to get around it when cooking things down to the man'n'machine aspect. That would be the easy way around it, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Yes, when really X-raying the process of songwriting in a broader even 'full' perspective, everything must be considered and counted in, , , like the weather or the war or the hue of your neighbors bird*. * means of course H-bird too. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Like many in here, I’ve owned too many guitars to remember. I currently have 6-7 that I really have bonded with and a few others that just sit in their cases or hang on the wall. Don’t know if I own the guitars or if they own me. I just know that I’m driven to play them at what ever level I can. I feel that my guitars are a real extension of who I am as a person. Playing them helps me pass the time, get myself out of an “old dude” funk, makes me try to teach this old dog a new trick, gets my creative juices flowing when I’m writing. I just feel better about life when I’m playing my guitars. Perhaps the emotional attachment means that they own me. They’ve introduced me to a lot of very nice people and they contribute to making me a better and happier person. So, whatever the facts are, I’m just glad I’m playing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, MissouriPicker said: Like many in here, I’ve owned too many guitars to remember. I currently have 6-7 that I really have bonded with and a few others that just sit in their cases or hang on the wall. Don’t know if I own the guitars or if they own me. I just know that I’m driven to play them at what ever level I can. I feel that my guitars are a real extension of who I am as a person. Playing them helps me pass the time, get myself out of an “old dude” funk, makes me try to teach this old dog a new trick, gets my creative juices flowing when I’m writing. I just feel better about life when I’m playing my guitars. Perhaps the emotional attachment means that they own me. They’ve introduced me to a lot of very nice people and they contribute to making me a better and happier person. So, whatever the facts are, I’m just glad I’m playing. I sense a good balance there. It was never undermined by the videos you sat up over the years. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, 62burst said: That would be the easy way around it, for sure. You set the bar exactly where you want it - but if the room gets too wide the interior will start drifting. . Edited October 22, 2023 by E-minor7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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