sparquelito Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 9 minutes ago, fujifan said: Internet forums are echo chambers now. People that regularly frequent forums lack originality and an individual identity and are closer to cattle than humans. And those cattle are always offended when thoughts outside the orthodoxy are presented. If you say anything funny, they are offended because they are always terrified of losing their status to people that can actually relate to other people. If you criticize Gibson, the NPC bots in the forum will come out in force. The rule is that you have to grovel and kiss *** for 6 months to prove you're a team player before you are allowed to express criticism of gibson. but there's no way I could hang with you "people" for six months. The long time members in any forum are social outcasts that have retreated to a virtual life on an internet forum where their length of tenure and ability to merge into the herd grants them status. So if I'm a little salty it's because this forum is stealing your souls and I'm a breath of fresh air. You'll thank me later. but if you don't, who cares? You assign personalities, motivations, and politics to the forum that simply do not exist. I have no idea what your history is, but clearly you have been hurt and insulted on a number of web forums. I get it. It stings. And so you lash out. But I caution you to avoid characterizing any of these fine long-time Gibson forum members as lacking in originality and humor. These guys here are not Gibson bots, and most of them have been vocal in their criticism of Gibson and many of their product. Let's go back to square one now. Why not introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about your years of playing Fuji-gen guitars, and the gigs and performances that you have engaged in? Tell us about your band members, and how well received your guitar performances are, when playing your favored instruments. (versus the times that you no doubt had unsatisfactory experiences when playing modern Gibson guitars at your gigs) Really. All is forgiven. Just tell us about yourself and your band, and your life's experiences with a variety of guitar brands. That's the stuff we really enjoy here. True life stories from the road, and from the bars and clubs where we ply our trade. I extend this hand of friendship, and look forward to a fresh start for you here. 🙂 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 21 hours ago, fujifan said: Below is the neck of a 1952 les paul and next to it is a modern Gibson long tenon neck. In the 1952 neck, the neck heel is flush with the bottom of the tenon. The neck comes straight out of the guitar and nothing hides the joint between the back of the neck and the body. In the modern design, they added a step down so the neck heel covers the joint. Adding that step down at the neck heel lowered the quality of Gibson guitars more than anything else they've ever done. Before they hid that neck joint, the tenon had to have full contact with the body. Now that the joint is hidden, they routinely leave a gap between the neck and the body and it ruins the tone and sustain of the guitar. If the tenon and body don't have full contact, then it makes no difference if you've got a long or short tenon. It's not the length of the tenon that matters, it's the contact between the tenon and body that matters. Now on the rare occasion that the tenon is properly seated to the body, people think the guitar is magic, but they should all sound like that. For Gibson to start producing quality guitars they have to make one simple change, get rid of the neck heel that hides the joint between the tenon and the body. If they do that then they can make modern gibsons sound like vintage gibsons and they can have better results from a short tenon than they now have with a long tenon. Shite ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujifan Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 2 hours ago, sparquelito said: You assign personalities, motivations, and politics to the forum that simply do not exist. I have no idea what your history is, but clearly you have been hurt and insulted on a number of web forums. I get it. It stings. And so you lash out. But I caution you to avoid characterizing any of these fine long-time Gibson forum members as lacking in originality and humor. These guys here are not Gibson bots, and most of them have been vocal in their criticism of Gibson and many of their product. Let's go back to square one now. Why not introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about your years of playing Fuji-gen guitars, and the gigs and performances that you have engaged in? Tell us about your band members, and how well received your guitar performances are, when playing your favored instruments. (versus the times that you no doubt had unsatisfactory experiences when playing modern Gibson guitars at your gigs) Really. All is forgiven. Just tell us about yourself and your band, and your life's experiences with a variety of guitar brands. That's the stuff we really enjoy here. True life stories from the road, and from the bars and clubs where we ply our trade. I extend this hand of friendship, and look forward to a fresh start for you here. 🙂 "I get it" I doubt it. "Why not introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about your years of playing Fuji-gen guitars" Nah. Online forums just aren't fun anymore. Back in 2000 they were entertaining but now they enforce blandness and uniformity. I'm only here to talk neck joints. So back to that- The neck joint is the root of all evil in gibson guitar construction. That's the one change they need to make to start building good guitars again. You ever notice that if you want to buy a 1971 strat you'd have to pay around 9 grand but the price of 70's les pauls never goes up? They have never become that collectible while japanese copies of Gibsons have gone through the roof. You could buy a 1965 gibson sg for 5k but a 65 strat would cost you 20 grand. Ever since norlin came up with this new neck joint, gibson instruments have been consistently subpar. Gibson still exists because every now and again a rockstar playing a gibson makes it big. This last time when Slash turned them around it for them he wasn't even playing a gibson, he was playing a replica. Gibson has thought of different schemes to stay in business but it would be really simple for them to return to being a quality guitar maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 14 minutes ago, fujifan said: "I get it" I doubt it. "Why not introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about your years of playing Fuji-gen guitars" Nah. Online forums just aren't fun anymore. Back in 2000 they were entertaining but now they enforce blandness and uniformity. I'm only here to talk neck joints. So back to that- The neck joint is the root of all evil in gibson guitar construction. That's the one change they need to make to start building good guitars again. You ever notice that if you want to buy a 1971 strat you'd have to pay around 9 grand but the price of 70's les pauls never goes up? They have never become that collectible while japanese copies of Gibsons have gone through the roof. You could buy a 1965 gibson sg for 5k but a 65 strat would cost you 20 grand. Ever since norlin came up with this new neck joint, gibson instruments have been consistently subpar. Gibson still exists because every now and again a rockstar playing a gibson makes it big. This last time when Slash turned them around it for them he wasn't even playing a gibson, he was playing a replica. Gibson has thought of different schemes to stay in business but it would be really simple for them to return to being a quality guitar maker. I pray for you, brother fujifan. If this is the be all and end all of your contribution to music, then I can only offer my heartfelt love and prayers for a happier existence for you some day. PM me, please. I have many years of experience in counseling and guiding troubled men and women toward a more peaceable and harmonious outcome. Really. You only need reach out. I love you, and I'm here for you, little brother. 🫠 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I'm really confused. I was the first to reply to Fuji last night right after he posted. I was quite complimentary to him in my reply, indicating that I really enjoy learning new things about guitar mechanics on this forum, (I tend to treat this forum as "night school" for me.), and I thanked him for his post. I am not saying he is wrong, nor am I saying he is right. I am simply not qualified to judge. I just want to learn and communicate with musical folks like me. However, I found it odd that he remained logged on to his post continuusly, never browsing the rest of the site forums/posts, nor did he bother to reply or react to my post. (not that he had to, btw) This afternoon I noticed his post blew up, and he was still there, but he only reacted/responded to those questioning his premise, and quite aggressively I might add. For the first time since I have been a member here, I actually deleted a reply to someone's post here, (and it was my reply to him.) Something did not feel right to me about this whole back and forth and I felt it better to step back from a subject I am admittedly ignorant about. Sparq, I applaud the compassion and love you have extended to fuji, and as you know, I tend to think like you do. I also extend my friendship and an olive branch to fuji, if indeed his chooses to accept it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 2 minutes ago, ghost_of_fl said: It gets stranger. This is the only thread this user has posted in or started on this forum. But .... JOINED October 23, 2015 🤔 Weird right? He's still sitting here monitoring his post/this thread. Not that he can't or shouldn't but... Hi Fuji! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 My tone is way better than yours though 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 ...and when yáll start getting pop-up adverts from a mob called Fujifan Inc with offers selling a patented panty-unbunching spray to boomer guitarists, then things may become clearer... just be sure to inform them how long your tenon is when ordering. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 19 minutes ago, 'Scales said: ...and when yáll start getting pop-up adverts from a mob called Fujifan Inc with offers selling a patented panty-unbunching spray to boomer guitarists, then things may become clearer... just be sure to inform them how long your tenon is when ordering. Is this when I am supposed to make the claim that "my tenon is longer than yours."? Now I'm wondering if this is where the term, "got wood" comes from. Do folks with short tenons feel compelled to drive expensive exotic cars, or find other ways to compensate? Maybe this explains John Bonamassa's need to acquire so many expensive toys. Inquiring minds want to know. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryNimda Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) There was a video series "Gibson: The Process" where Jim DeCola spoke on this difference of 50s and modern construction techiques. What he said is "they're different, but it doesn't mean one is better than the other". This goes specifically for the "long tennon" debate. We all accept that, he knows what he's talking about. As far as pricing goes... Gibson is like any other responsible producer. It sells its products for the prices it can get. Meaning, that if anything is "overpriced", people will not buy it. So they have to adjust their pricing exactly to where they think the market will buy it. Otherwise there'd be surplus and huge discounts at retail shops. I think Gibson is doing a mighty fine job on everything like its products, pricing, quantities, quality & they even have great videos on YouTube. Just like all the other guitar companies. You have to build great stuff and sell it for a decent price, or you will go out of business. That's the beauty of the free market.😎 Edited February 11 by OrdinaryNimda There were typos, as is customary in these times. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 29 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said: Is this when I am supposed to make the claim that "my tenon is longer than yours."? Now I'm wondering if this is where the term, "got wood" comes from. Do folks with short tenons feel compelled to drive expensive exotic cars, or find other ways to compensate? Maybe this explains John Bonamassa's need to acquire so many expensive toys. Inquiring minds want to know. could well be man!....I'll ponder that while I'm parking my old Toyota Avalon. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 6 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said: AI bot reply says what? That would not surprise me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) May we hear or at least see a pic of the $5k Greco please? Or Fuji's band, or him playing., as Sparq requested. But he won't post a clip because "Online forums just aren't fun anymore". Draw your own conclusion from that. I still want to know if Fuji is an experienced luthier/guitar builder/repairman. I don't think he is. He might be AKA Marshall Paul though. Btw Fuji - Rabs builds his guitars completely from scratch and there have been several build threads about them. Edited February 11 by jdgm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Seems like if I knew all along about the shortcomings of a stepped neck joint, the world would have heard my words long before this. It’s a big world out there but since the 90s it’s been easy to have one’s voice heard over this information superhighway. If it is a recent epiphany, I think I would do a better job of selecting my audience to share it. What, a dozen guys who hang around an old school forum? Especially ones that apparently are quite stupid. “Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.” If we are truly as ignorant, outmoded, and marginalized as you claim we are, then you are wasting your time on us. Google “Les Paul Forum” and share your concrete viewpoints with some of the piranhas in there. I’ll start the Jiffy Pop. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) I’ll start the Jiffy Pop. Scott, that be an excellent idea, definitely gonna need more popcorn! Edited February 11 by kidblast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 9 hours ago, fujifan said: "I get it" I doubt it. "Why not introduce yourself, and tell us a bit about your years of playing Fuji-gen guitars" Nah. Online forums just aren't fun anymore. Back in 2000 they were entertaining but now they enforce blandness and uniformity. I'm only here to talk neck joints. So back to that- The neck joint is the root of all evil in gibson guitar construction. That's the one change they need to make to start building good guitars again. You ever notice that if you want to buy a 1971 strat you'd have to pay around 9 grand but the price of 70's les pauls never goes up? They have never become that collectible while japanese copies of Gibsons have gone through the roof. You could buy a 1965 gibson sg for 5k but a 65 strat would cost you 20 grand. Ever since norlin came up with this new neck joint, gibson instruments have been consistently subpar. Gibson still exists because every now and again a rockstar playing a gibson makes it big. This last time when Slash turned them around it for them he wasn't even playing a gibson, he was playing a replica. Gibson has thought of different schemes to stay in business but it would be really simple for them to return to being a quality guitar maker. You do seem to have a lot of knowledge and history in your head. We appreciate that kind of insight. There are better ways to participate on this forum. We're mostly an opened bunch and we like talking about this stuff. There' really little need or benefit in talking down to this crew. First impressions last the longest. Take that for whatever worth you can find. This is the last reply I'll add to this thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 OH MY GOD, I’M BORING (a poem) Oh my God, I’m boring a fact of which I was unaware My ego will need restoring Fuji’s done some serious damage there And it appears that I am wrong I know nothing about neck tenons, the difference between short and long, or between Sir Paul’s and John Lennon’s My forum enforces blandness and uniformity and Gibson is a terrible company My Les Paul’s neck joint has a deformity Upon my playing, surely shame and guilt will accompany I guess I should thank fujifan for his honesty Though it’s a bitter pill for me to swallow This lesson should lead to ontogeny And maybe fujifan-like wisdom will follow I sure hope that Gibson gives a listen To the truths that fujifan has to offer Then maybe in 2025 they can christen A new line of neck joints to proffer Neck joints that conform to fujifan’s standards, that offer vintage tones to players what noodles and meanders whilst playing riffs from the Rolling Stones Well, I guess I really am boring Because I just wrote a poem On a topic as exciting as vinyl flooring even the rhymes and prose are ho-hum fin Okay, I’m gonna shut up now. 😔 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 neck joints are all wrong nine teen fifty two was right gibson sucks out loud (ksdaddy haiku) 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I am NOT giving back all the money I made with Gibson guitars since the 70's.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieDog Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I’m dying here folks!! (Prairie dog digs out a handkerchief and wipes away tears of laughter) You all are the most hilarious, creative and good hearted folks I’ve come across in a loooong time on any forum. And, @Sparquelito, you win the biggest heart trophy, good on you for trying to turn things around. I vote bot, since the replies stopped once folks stopped directly quoting him. The wife and I are off for a spin in our ‘modern’ ride built better than a crummy (52) Corvette… it’s got a real long… muffler. 😆 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, PrairieDog said: I vote bot, since the replies stopped once folks stopped directly quoting him. So wait. You're saying Ai is an argumentative arsehole? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieDog Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 6 minutes ago, Murph said: So wait. You're saying Ai is an argumentative arsehole? Well, since AI only learns from what is out there… rueful chuckle. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujifan Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 14 hours ago, Sheepdog1969 said: I'm really confused. I was the first to reply to Fuji last night right after he posted. I was quite complimentary to him in my reply, indicating that I really enjoy learning new things about guitar mechanics on this forum, (I tend to treat this forum as "night school" for me.), and I thanked him for his post. I am not saying he is wrong, nor am I saying he is right. I am simply not qualified to judge. I just want to learn and communicate with musical folks like me. However, I found it odd that he remained logged on to his post continuusly, never browsing the rest of the site forums/posts, nor did he bother to reply or react to my post. (not that he had to, btw) This afternoon I noticed his post blew up, and he was still there, but he only reacted/responded to those questioning his premise, and quite aggressively I might add. For the first time since I have been a member here, I actually deleted a reply to someone's post here, (and it was my reply to him.) Something did not feel right to me about this whole back and forth and I felt it better to step back from a subject I am admittedly ignorant about. Sparq, I applaud the compassion and love you have extended to fuji, and as you know, I tend to think like you do. I also extend my friendship and an olive branch to fuji, if indeed his chooses to accept it. I didn't see your earlier post. There have been a lot of replies. If I would have noticed a non-argumentative jackass commenting I definitely would have responded. " I am simply not qualified to judge" Yes you are. If you have a basic understanding of how guitars are built and you have common sense then you are totally qualified. I'm not proposing any new theories by saying a guitar sounds better when the next is firmly attached to the body. The real problem here is that this forum, like most forums nowadays is filled with mediocre simpletons that expect me to kiss their *** and adhere to their bizarre social caste in order for them to consider what I've said and I'd rather have them completely dismiss me then grovel for the approval of the NPC hordes. conforming to the herd is beneath my human dignity, and it ought to be beneath all of yours as well. I'm the one with something to worthwhile to offer here and I know it. Whether you all take it or leave it doesn't make any difference to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujifan Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 6 hours ago, kidblast said: You do seem to have a lot of knowledge and history in your head. We appreciate that kind of insight. There are better ways to participate on this forum. We're mostly an opened bunch and we like talking about this stuff. There' really little need or benefit in talking down to this crew. First impressions last the longest. Take that for whatever worth you can find. This is the last reply I'll add to this thread. "There are better ways to participate on this forum." You sure about that? Which thread in this forum is getting all the attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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