AXE® Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I think water boarding is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Soldiers who break specific provisions of the laws of war lose the protections and status afforded as prisoners of war but only after facing a "competent tribunal" (GC III Art 5). At that point they become an unlawful combatant but they must still be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial", because they are still covered by GC IV Art 5. Spies and "terrorists" are only protected by the laws of war if the power which holds them is in a state of armed conflict or war and until they are found to be an unlawful combatant. Depending on the circumstances, they may be subject to civilian law or military tribunal for their acts and in practice have been subjected to torture and/or execution. The laws of war neither approve nor condemn such acts, which fall outside their scope. Countries that have signed the UN Convention Against Torture have committed themselves not to use torture on anyone for any reason. After a conflict has ended, persons who have committed any breach of the laws of war, and especially atrocities, may be held individually accountable for war crimes through process of law. Mr Bush circumvented these rules of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 You might be right. But that is the problem...was law on their side? Only way to determine that is to let the courts decide. Is this issue in front of a court? If so, which court and who are the plaintiffs and defendants? It seems to me, that this issue is only being used for political purposes. If laws were broken, shouldn't somebody have been indicted by now? The acts we are discussing took place in 2002 and 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 ...Mr Bush circumvented these rules of war. Maybe, but that's just your opinion. Don't you think that with all of the lawyers in Washington, and all of the hatred for Bush, that if the law was that cut and dried, we'd have seen someone do the perp walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html It took the US until 1988 to finally ratify it but we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Form the National Review...a source I am sure you are familiar with BRAVO!!! Indeed I am - subscribed for some time now. :-) BM, you made me proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 BM' date=' you made me proud! [/quote'] Does that mean we can hug and make up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Just so EVERYBODY is clear on this; Here was the question - Anybody care to guess what group of people suffered more waterboarding than anybody else in the world? I mean by the thousands' date=' and each one survived. Anybody?[/b'] THAT'S RIGHT!!!!! You win the blind date with Stevie Wonder! It may have been the US military waterboarding themselves but when you are waterboarded by your "friends" it is a lot different than when the enemy does it. You know your military trainers will not kill you, your enemies might. Big difference, ask John McCain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Sorry Gramps, I'm not a McCain fan either so that little zinger scores you nothing against my team. I live in the Great State of Arizona and I've never voted for him. His War Hero schtick has worn thin with me, he can save that for speeches at the VFW hall. I admire him for his service and respect his sacrifice, but as a politician, he's Hillary Clinton in a suit. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Sorry Gramps' date='I'm not a McCain fan either so that little zinger scores you nothing against my team. I live in the Great State of Arizona and I've never voted for him. His War Hero schtick has worn thin with me, he can save that for speeches at the VFW hall. I admire him for his service and respect his sacrifice, but as a politician, he's Hillary Clinton in a suit. No thanks. [/quote'] It has nothing to do with McCains politics, it has to do with the fact that he knows firsthand about torture and as such, he can be considered a credible source of information about it. I'm not trying to score anything against "your team", the issue is torture and its morality aqnd effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Not sure what we, here and as a nation, are still debating. Waterboarding is torture. Anyone who says otherwise should be hog tied, blind folded, flown to a foreign country, and waterboarded for several days straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 It has nothing to do with McCains politics' date=' it has to do with the fact that he knows firsthand about torture and as such, he can be considered a credible source of information about it. [/quote']Was McCain waterboarded? No, he was TORTURED! Big difference in what he was subjected to, he suffered crippling injuries and lived with them untreated for 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Waterboarding is torture. Anyone who says otherwise should be hog tied' date=' blind folded, flown to a foreign country, and waterboarded for several days straight. [/quote'] For a little perspective, tell us a little about yourself. Ever in the military? Anybody in your family serve? What sort of work do you do? Have any children? How many presidential elections have you voted in? Curious how you came to be on such a moral high horse about what is and what is NOT torture. Considering the speed and comprehensive fashion that the Defeatocrats are falling apart on this subject, maybe you should consider facts with a little more gravity and leave the knee-jerk emotional outbursts to your like-minded friends. Standing on "positions" such as yours in a public forum and declaring your wisdom to trump all is inviting more than dissent. Telling me I should be tortured is pretty fxcking arrogant. Tell us - exactly who the fxck do you think you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Now I know who the dog is snickering at. Some of you guys wouldn't have a friend in the world if you treated real people the way you treat other people on a chat board. You don't have any manners, you're look like you're a slob, you don't seem to be very well educated and you are trying to tell other people how to run their lives. That's pretty funny. You sound like Timothy McVeigh. You're an expert on how to threaten people. Boy, you're really cool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Another rule for living - Go to College - then you might learn some tolerance. You might learn how to discuss stuff intelligently without cussing and foaming at the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Now I know who the dog is snickering at. Some of you guys wouldn't have a friend in the world if you treated real people the way you treat other people on a chat board. You don't have any manners' date=' you're look like you're a slob, you don't seem to be very well educated and you are trying to tell other people how to run their lives. That's pretty funny. You sound like Timothy McVeigh. You're an expert on how to threaten people. Boy, you're really cool!! [/quote'] Ah, ANOTHER personal attack! Keep 'em coming, as I'm a product of my environment! :-) I guess I need to spell out that I do not subscribe to the McVeigh way of operating. Fxck you for the comparison, along with all your Stalinist acquaintences. You're clueless, your typing needs work, you're a little to full of yourself to level accusations of that sort against anybody, you are obviously a typically paranoid Liberal scared to death of a thought or word you don't agree with but not concerned in the least about millions of Muslims who have stated their intent and demonstrated their ability to kill millions of Americans. My friends and family get it. I do not associate with people who do not. Oh, and since you're such a judgmental fxck please display a dozen or so of your mosty flattering photos so we can decide if we like the way you present yourself. Then let's see your college transcripts, be sure to highlight YOUR 4.0 GPA, okay? Then tell us what YOU do for a living, or are you still in your Mom's basement? I don't CARE how others run their lives (you can't say the same) as long as their idiocy and influence is free from mine. Welcome to the thread, sh!t-flinger. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 neo, you are one angry son of a gun. ya gotta know that's not good for your health. i mean, really, dial it down a bit. you're gonna have a heart attack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc3c46 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Let me tell you what torture is: The crap that some guys post on you tube, advertising their acoustic pollution by tormenting a good Gibson and making noise with lots of distortion and think they know how to play guitar. Perhaps waterboarding would help there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Telling me I should be tortured is pretty fxcking arrogant. My comment was more directed at people in positions of power like the AG. I doubt either of us are at that level' date=' but if you want to take my comment personally I cannot help that. Tell us - exactly who the fxck do you think you are? I don't think I am anything, just stating facts. Based on the definition below, would waterboarding not fall under it? tor•ture (tôr'ch?r) n. 1. a. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion. b. An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain. 2. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense. 3. Something causing severe pain or anguish. There are far too many soft positions taken by people in government. Does anyone in power have a spine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 neo, if you don't think that waterboarding is torture, would you be willing to be waterboarded? Or are you like Sean Hannity, blustery talk but no walk. He said in a moment of bravado that he would volunteer for it, but when it comes time to own up to his bravado, he shies away. Waterboarding is torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 neo' date=' you are one angry son of a gun. ya gotta know that's not good for your health. i mean, really, dial it down a bit. you're gonna have a heart attack![/quote']Thanks jannus! I'm fine, really! :-) I'm not angry, just very aware of my surroundings and intolerant of baloney. What it boils down to is the same challenge I've issued for years; Some one disagrees with me? That's fine. Now tell me where I'm wrong. People on the OTHER SIDE of the argument resort to flaming, assaults and histrionics with the misguided notion that I will think I've overstepped my bounds and somehow angered them - then I'll get all squishy and apologize. Heh, heh, heh.... That's when I just get my game on. :-) Ask anybody who knows me - including an ex wife - I don't back down. Want to avoid unpleasantries? Don't introduce them to the dialogue. I can have a discussion with anybody as long as it's a two way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 neo' date=' if you don't think that waterboarding is torture, would you be willing to be waterboarded?[/quote']See, here's where logic has left the room.... How stupid is that? Why would I want to be waterboarded? What does that have to do with anything? Would you want to be kept in an air-conditioned jail cell with a TV and a nice recliner? I don't think so. Come ON!!! Or are you like Sean Hannity' date=' blustery talk but no walk.[/quote']I know you want to believe that to be true - go ahead. I didn't get where I am in life being a spineless pnssy. Waterboarding is torture. YOUR attorney general disagrees. You figure it out. As far as waterboarding goes, I say stop it completely. Let's use the Muslim techniques on Muslim captives. This is the same as the lame argument about cops using tasers and a few people have died as a result. GET RID OF THE TASERS! Go back to using a baton, and if that doesn't work - a 45... You guys with the Liberal heartstrings being pulled by every kittie, puppy or Muslim terrorist can identify ALL the problems (way to go Sherlock!) but NEVER offer a solution. Haven't seen one here. As a matter of fact, all I've seen here is you guys cussing, insulting, assaulting, flaming, belittling and doing all the things you accuse the "hateful" conservatives of. Very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Moon, you did a good job on this post. I appreciated cool-headed approach. I found this on the Who Would You Ban post and thought it apropos. Don't want to ban anyone...though I wouldn't mind watching a few get waterboarded. That's funny. Made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 neo said: "Thanks jannus! I'm fine, really! :-)" well, i hope so. at my advanced age, i've sort of come to the conclusion that life throws some sort of baloney at us every day. i have to differentiate between which baloney matters because i can do something about it and that which i can't, and matters less as a result. in the pantheon of things to worry about, persuading folks to my point of view is pretty much at the bottom of the list. as is defending my position to folks who clearly disagree with me. oddly enough, most of the topics folks argue about here are about things that are, for the most part, beyond our control. for me the best thing i can think to do is live my life as well as i can according to the principles i believe in. i can't imagine how others could do much more than that in their circumstances. i don't see that there's a great deal to be gained from fighting about our differences of opinion. i try hard to keep negative energy at bay as much as possible. don't get me wrong, i'm guilty of dropping a bomb in here from time to time but i try to temper it before i. or anyone else, blows a gasket. i'll try to do better when it comes to practicing what i preach. sorry, this inadvertently turned into a sermon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 sorry' date=' this inadvertently turned into a sermon. [/quote']Yeah, but it was a decent one. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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