SlagJones Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Maybe this is a dumb question but it's something I have wondered about. How do you not lose your hearing if you play live often? If you are standing in front of a Marshall stack in an arena or a twin reverb in a club, how many db's is that putting out? Over 100db's? Earplugs? I can't tell if the musicians are wearing any. My ears ring if I go to one concert, how do they save their ears night after night on an full blown tour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Huh? (just kidding). When I hear those guys on the Gibby forum talk about how they can tell the tonal differences between African mahogany and Honduran mahogany (or other such nonsense) I can only assume that they've never spent much time on stage in front of amps. 20+ years of that behavior has left me with substantial hearing loss as I suppose it has with anyone else who has put in their time in front of them. I seriously doubt if any 'veteran' guitar player can claim to hear any of those tonal subtleties some of those guys on the Gib forum claim to hear. (You know, those tonal subtleties that make their Gibbys so superior to our Epis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Maybe this is a dumb question but it's something I have wondered about. How do you not lose your hearing if you play live often? If you are standing in front of a Marshall stack in an arena or a twin reverb in a club' date=' how many db's is that putting out? Over 100db's? Earplugs? I can't tell if the musicians are wearing any. My ears ring if I go to one concert, how do they save their ears night after night on an full blown tour?[/quote'] I wish I knew. After only 6 years in a band in the 60's, my hearing has lost much of the high range. But what really did me in was a Gato Barbieri concert about 25 years ago. His amplifiers were so deafening, my ears rang for nearly a week afterword. I lost a large amount of my hearing after that dreadful concert. It was the loudest thing I have ever encountered, and I was in there for over an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I too have some damage from years of foolishness. There are steps you can take like wearing plugs and keeping your speakers lower that the top cab of a full stack etc...etc.. Also cymbals are a killer on stage and thats why you see many drummers behind plexi panels now! In the 80's I worked with some bands that were 110+db on stage never mind in front of the mains!!! But hearing loss was the least of their problems trust me......a few of em aren't even here any more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I have some hearing loss as well, particularly the higher frequencies. Most of mine happened during Viet Nam. I was on a Navy Destroyer, and under the front gun with no ear protection during bombing attacks. The loud rock 'n roll didn't help either. But like Layboomo said, that really isn't that bad, at least I'm still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 22 years of constant tinitus is not good. take care of years ears. i remember jimi saying that on video when he was first using the marshall stack in london? i think olive oil may help sooth you after a concert. it is a cure for earache and removes hard wax buildup. make sure its room temp not hot if you warm it and have someone pour it in your ear with your head to the side and let it work for 10 mins or so. i remember having this done and ear syringing after have a virus in 1986 it didn't go and i've allways blamed myself as i did listen to rock music loud in my room back then. maybe just the virus though. i wouldn't want to put this on anyone else. don't play too loud! i would have thought big ear muffs that had a little speakers in need a patent although how do you explain it to your crowd? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Have you noticed professionals wearing something that looks like hearing aids? They're custom-molded in-ear monitors, that preclude the need for stage monitors, and protect their hearing (unless the performer uses too high a volume, of course). I would assume a setup like that is out of reach for many bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Ok, here's a noob question. What is the function of stage monitors? Mind you have never performed live other than maybe something in kindergarten. If you are standing in front of a bunch of amp stacks, how can you hear anything coming out of a speaker in front of you anyway? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Ok' date=' here's a noob question. What is the function of stage monitors? Mind you have never performed live other than maybe something in kindergarten. If you are standing in front of a bunch of amp stacks, how can you hear anything coming out of a speaker in front of you anyway? Just wondering.[/quote']With all that sound blasting from the amps behind you , it's difficult to hear your own vocals and sing in tune. Stage monitors face you and help you hear yourself and sing in tune. Ever heard someone singing while listening to an iPod? I have funny memories of seeing the Bee Gees on stage with a finger in their ear - necessary to hear their own voices, especially for those tight harmonies. That help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 yes, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanessa Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 _Is there a handy , low-priced , digital device that shows the Dbs level ? Please inform ... If I keep the max. noise level less than 70 Dbs, I would be o.K., won't I ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 _Is there a handy ' date=' low-priced , digital device that shows the Dbs level ? Please inform ... If I keep the max. noise level less than 70 Dbs, I would be o.K., won't I ? [/quote']Google "sound meter" or "decibel meter" - there are apparently many devices out there at many prices, some quite reasonable. Regarding the second part of your question, this site says the danger level is 85db: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Radio Shack has SPL meters. 85db and above can cause damage to your hearing depending on exposure time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I've only been playing electric for a little over a year, but playing in a 10x11 room did some early damage. I either turn the volume down, especially when I am practicing and I am focused on attack and following the timing of the backing track. I also use headphones, but limit the time in one sitting and keep the volume really low. When I crank it up - I wear these. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EarPlugPro/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 cool i'll send for a pair!:D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 You struck a nerve with me. Your ears are your most important musical instrument, take care of them. NEVER-EVER expose them to a SPL ("A" weighted, slow response) of over 85db. Period. Get an SPL meter (I use two Radio Shack ones, one for me and one for Leilani) and I use custom fitted Etymotic ear plugs. I use the 15 db models and never let the stage volume get over 100 db (A/slow) so my ears are protected. The 15 db models are almost flat attenuation so the music still sounds good. I keep the PA speakers in front of me, and use little 15w imitation "hot spot" monitors with 5" speakers. If I go to a jam session where they keep their guitar amps in the rear and/or wedge monitors, I bring my 25 db ear plugs, and if it gets too loud, I go home. 85 db is not that loud. In the days before air conditioning, truck drivers used to go deaf in their left ear because the sound of the wind coming in the truck cab is more than 85db. A busy street corner is more than 85db. My 5hp push lawn mower is over 90 db and it is a relatively quiet one (I do use foam ear plugs when mowing the lawn). I once was hired by a drummer who only played acoustic small combo jazz. He kept on buying newer cymbals because he thought they weren't bright enough. It was his ears. Even with small sticks, an acoustic drum set is over 85 db. I did find out about this a bit too late though. I do have some minor high frequency loss. Fortunately I found out about it while it was still minor, found the Etymotic ear plugs in 1996 and my hearing has been stable since then (it hasn't graduated to moderate damage). The problem is that while you sustain the damage in your youth, it really doesn't become a problem until you are middle aged. So a young person playing in loud bands will not notice the problem. Then even if he/she stops listening to loud music, but the time he/she is in his 40s, the damage will become noticeable. So for you younger players, don't give yourself a false sense of security. BTW there is good ear protection advice at H.E.A.R. Bottom line is, if you want to be able to enjoy music all your life, if you want to be able to understand the words on TV or in the movies all your life, if you want to be able to understand what people are saying in a noisy room all your life, protect your ears, never-ever let more than 85 db reach your eardrums. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn1281733995 Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Radio Shack has SPL meters. 85db and above can cause damage to your hearing depending on exposure time. This is correct. It depends on the exposure time. 80-85dbA (average) is the maximum allowable limit for 8hrs exposure. This 8hrs is supposed to be a typical working day. The louder the average exposure, the less time you can safely be exposed. Anything around 145dbC (peak) will almost certainly cause irreversable damage. Like another poster, I too have permanent tinitus (ringing in the ears). This is something I can highly recommend you can do without! I wish I could say it was from years on stage but it was from riveting aircraft components together for 15 odd years (~120db(A)). It wasn't *manly* to wear ear protection in the 70's Fortunately it is widely accepted these days and in most cases, mandatory. Ear plugs is what the smart musos are wearing. They can be custom made for your earhole and are virtually invisible. Cleanable, reusable etc. You wouldnt look too cool with a pair of earmuffs on stage :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanessa Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 _Thanks [Ron G. , SlagJones, Just Strum, Notes_Norton, glenn ] for the most valuable infos. & tips . Much appreciated ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlagJones Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 You struck a nerve with me. Your ears are your most important musical instrument' date=' take care of them. NEVER-EVER expose them to a SPL [i']("A" weighted, slow response)[/i] of over 85db. Period. Insights and incites by Notes Thanks for the great info! I got quick question, I have been setting my Radio Shack sound level meter to C weighted fast response. What is the difference from A weighted slow response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn1281733995 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 C weighted fast response will give you an 'instantaneous' (sp?) reading of the Peak noise. Like a car tacho. A weighted will average out the total noise over a given period, usually 8hrs. Average (A) will obviously be lower because the data will contain everything from maximum peaks to virtually zero noise over time. The Peak © reading is just that, Peak noise. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I read that A weighted was for the human hearing bandwidth and C weighted was much wider, including sounds we cannot hear. Slow response gives more of an average reading, fast gives more of a peak reading. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Speaking as an old guy who was tank crew in the army, and raced four-stroke motorcycles before silencing was required, and who has played electric guitar and bass on stage for nigh onto 25 years, and whose hearing disappears above 15kHz, I have to say that most bands are really stupid when it comes to volume. A musician friend arrived from Houston and we resolved to go out and hear some live music. I should note that we're both long-time electric players. We went to a local venue and all we heard was loud mud. The bass was a loud thud (indistinguishable from the kick drum), the lead was some squeaky sounds that disappeared into the ether, and the words of the song -- the reason there are songs -- could have been so much gibberish. This is a typical experience: when everybody turns up to 10, the music goes away. And I'm not talking about jazz or folk: I'm listening to a live recording my rock/country band made and, dammit, the lyrics are intelligible, the bass lines (that's me) can be distinguished, the lead parts mean something because they're not hidden in a loud mush of crap. Most bands think loud is good, and part of the live music experience is hearing a lot of songs and getting drunk (which impairs your hearing acuity, in this situation a desirable side effect) and wondering what the lyrics are about. We prided ourselves on sensible levels onstage. Everything was mic'd up, and I had a line out to the PA mixer for my bass; I played an Ampeg B100R on a stand so the drummer could hear me; I could hear the drummer acoustically and the singer through the monitors, and, by God we sounded pretty good. I'm not saying loud per se is bad: just that there's stupid loud, and there's smart loud. We tried to be smart loud. The ultimate test is that the lead player's wife video recorded our gigs. You can watch a DVD with the audio recorded through the pitiful camcorder mic and you can tell what we're playing. The result? We were in demand, and we played four hour sets and could converse at normal levels while we loaded out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesstringer Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I'm with the rest of the geezers here - mainly high frequency effect. most noticible to my wife over the last couple of years, and I really do listen to her, LOL. Too many years of Marshall Majors, Sunn Concerts, Vox Super Beatles, Fender Twins, Harleys with 3 foot fishtail open pipes, and self induced chemical influences with the occasional auditory side effect........ We didn't use monitors for most of the 70s and now and I have difficulty hearing myself in the mix with the hot spots that Bob mentioned. I usually have to use an earplug in one ear to hear myself sing. No regrets, I had some good times, and no damage that I can't live with.....provided it doesn't continue to deteriorate ! I can still play live and pretty much hold my own without embarassing myself..... I don't embarrass easily tho !, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 A couple years (around 1990) of standing directly in front of a 105w Univox stack, with a bass monitor in front of me (to help me stay in time) and a dbl. bass drumkit 15 ft. behind me, did some serious damage to my ears. On my "day job" my hearing is tested annually, and the tester tells me every year that it's "physically impossible", BUT my hearing has gradually improved EVERY YEAR since my "gigging days" ended in '92. My hearing is back to normal now, even good "for a guy my age"(I don't like my tester sometimes...lol) Don't buy in to the "fact" that ALL hearing loss is permanent........it CAN gradually come back, to a large degree, with some restraint on the exposure level. Either that...or i'm a complete freak of nature(which wouldn't surprise me at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Most bands think loud is good, and part of the live music experience is hearing a lot of songs and getting drunk (which impairs your hearing acuity, in this situation a desirable side effect) and wondering what the lyrics are about. We were the +5 in this realm, which is why we were never particularly popular, or good. I struggled with trying to form a "more co-herent sound" with my mates, which never developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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