Some help for the new guy...

[RichardLionhart]

Greetings and well met to all,

 

I am a long time lurker and a 1st time poster in the forum here. I would like to get a little help or opinions from some of you experienced players out there. Maybe it's best that I preface this post by saying that I am 30 years old, I do NOT play guitar and never have, but I DO have a minor in music theory and play other instruments.

 

I am about to buy my 1st guitar and take lessons from a local teacher somewhere here in Asheville, NC. I've been to several music stores and held different guitars and listened to them played. Since I do not play, I've only been able to go by what feels "comfortable" or "right" to me. Not wanting to spend too much money on my initial instrument and after reading many reviews, it seems that an Epiphone is the best route to take. I want to go electric. I tried a few Les Pauls, SGs, and a Fender Stratocaster. The SG is what really grabbed me. It felt the most comfortable and I enjoyed it's sound. I feel pretty confident that I will be going for the SG as my 1st.

 

I also listened to several practice amps. For a beginner, the best bang for my buck seems like it would come from a Line6 Spider III 15. Now... here is where I am having a dilemma. Is it better to go with more guitar or more amp when starting out? This is what I mean...

 

The Epiphone Vintage G-400 runs for $299, or I can get the Limited Edition 1966 G-400 for $399. If I were to buy the cheaper guitar, I would get the Line6 Spider III 30 watt for $199. If I go for the more expensive guitar, I would only get the 15 watt amp for $99. Do you follow what I mean? As a beginner, am I better off with a slightly better guitar or amp? Will it even matter to a beginner? I would be spending the exact same amount of money with either route I take. Should this be something I really enjoy, I can certainly upgrade either/or at a later date.

 

I am also having to purchase a strap, case, accessories, etc. from the start. I've put together everything I'll need for just under $650 in total on musiciansfriend.com, which is where I would like to stay. Perhaps I should also mention that at this point I am learning and playing only for myself... no bandmates, church performances, or other gigs. This will all be just for me to do at home, as it's something I've had an interest in doing, but just haven't had the time until recently.

 

I definitely appreciate any help and insight you might be able to offer. I'm truly looking forward to beginning my new guitar adventure and getting away from the piano and voice.

 

edit - As to what I would like to play, I have a pretty broad spectrum. I enjoy bluesy stuff such as Stevie Ray Vaughn, technical mastery such as Eric Johnson, Yngwie Malmsteen, and Steve Vai, and I enjoy just plain ol' listening to Avenged Sevenfold and Metallica. I would love to be able to emulate any of these guys.

[TWANG]

The amp is part of the guitar. I guess I'd say, fingers, strings, pickups, preamp amp speaker.. that's what you're playing.

 

You can talk about wood and so forth, but you've already solved that with your choice so ..

 

A tube guy will say any solid state amp in your price range is a tone killer.

But some worse than others, and nowadays, luckily, we can even say some are pretty good.

 

I'd personally rather see you go with the lesser priced guitar.. it's a good one to start with, and if at some future time you want to improve it's sound your initial investment being lower the total cost wont be very high.

 

15 solid states watts is not much.

You're not jamming or gigging so you need little in power, so that's ok.

 

What I'd look at is features.

My argument in here is that sometimes it is better for a beginner to use a solid state amp.

Sure, I could easily recommend the epiphone valve junior combo..and I may!

 

For instance, you didn't mention what music you want to play.. the amp has no efx, no reverb, not even an efx loop.

That means no features beyond really sweet tube tone.

I play that way a lot.. but..

 

an SS amp will typically have overdrive and distortion and clean sounds, and in addition to that as many as several efx. chorus phase flange reverb tremolo delays etc..

 

But you will probably also want the ability to plug a cd into the amp, and headphones.

 

So, an SS amp can have it all. help you learn all the efx and how to use them and what they do, as well as have the cd/phones option for quiet practice, and line 6 does have pretty good tone to start with.

 

That takes us back to how soon in the future you think you'll need more than 15 SS watts.

 

I know how long, in one way..not as time measurement but.. as soon as you do want to play with others, jamming or gigging, you'll want more than 15 watts.

 

So I'm just going to cut to the chase, finally.. and say, My Roland Micro Cube has really nice heaphone sounds. and you can plug in a cd..

and it has several good amp sims.. that means you get two very nice clean amp sounds.. one can be pushed dirty a bit..

and then some more amp sounds. vox marshall mesa .. for distortion of various amounts.. all pretty nice!

plus some simple efx like rev. del. fla. chor. pha. and trem.

 

If I play it in the living room, it's loud.. even with a 5" speaker and few watts.. it'll keep up with the stereo.. and it's even pretty loud with a cd player plugged into it using the speaker.

 

The thing is.. that little amp is about as perfect a practice device as you can get for the money.. it lets you do all the things you need a practice amp for, with some compromises such as limited efx settings..or huge volume.

 

You want your first amp to either be a unit you can continue to use.. or disposable. something you intend to trade off.

You could get the more expensive guitar and the micro cube.. then when you need a bigger amp, keep it, it's too good too handy

to not have. practice doesn't stop. you'll practice for years, the micro cube will last and serve for years.

so that's a good idea.

 

For the money, maybe the line 6 stuff is ok, too.. I'm not that familiar with them.

compare the features.. compare the price.. read the reviews and choose as you will because I do know this is all good stuff.

there are other choices out there, too, and I'm sure people will bring them up.

 

good on you that the opinions today are more valuable than ever, because there's so much good gear out there in about any price range.

 

So, I'll close with.. limited ed. guitar and micro cube.

 

TWANG

[FrankS1281734010]

if i were you i'd jump on this....like NOW.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-Valve-Junior-Amp-Line-6-Pocket-Pod_W0QQitemZ230299700762QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230299700762&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[JefferySmith]

I'll probably get some nays on this one, but I would go for the better guitar and cheaper amp. What you are looking for is a guitar to learn on, not to perform in public (yet). I learned on a Silvertone acoustic ($5 in 1939), and my first amp was a bottom of the line Gibson reverb (very few watts, one speaker). I have a Line6 amp, and it is pretty versatile.

 

As for the guitar, the G-400 is a good choice, as is a B-stock Sheraton or Dot if you can find one at MF.

[jody mauk]

i would go w/ the g-400 and the 30 watt line 6,the line 6 spider is a "modeling"amp, this means you can copy any (and i mean ) any amp out there, from a marshall plexi,to an epi.also you can preset ,and custom make you own sound....30 watts is not too much,but plenty for starting out.and the g-400 is a superb guitar,if you like the way it feels,sounds,plays,and stays in tune..(which the line6 has a built in tuner)..this is the way i'd go. you wont be sorry...btw welcome to the world of guitars, once the bug bites ya, you never get over it:d/

[charlie brown]

Gosh...some good advice! If it were me, I'd get the best playing guitar, and a "decent" amp. Roland Cube amps...

are hard to beat, tone wise, for "solid state"...IMHO. The Cube 30 is a decent price, and has enough power you

could perform with it, LATER! Which ever guitar you get, don't forget to have it "set up," properly...to your taste. Action (string height off the fingerboard), and string guage/thickness. Also, have them make sure the "nut" is properly slotted, so as not to bind the strings and cause "tuning issues." Any money spent, that way, is a GOOD investment.

 

Cheers, and good luck!

 

CB

[Steven Lister]

Now... here is where I am having a dilemma. Is it better to go with more guitar or more amp when starting out?

First off' date=' WELCOME to the forum "King" Richard![/color']

Your question of:

...more guitar or more amp?

IMO: The best of both that you can afford - even if you it means that you pay something more than you had planned. You say you tried some and have chosen two favorites, then go with both favorites..., otherwise you'll look back and wish that you had done so. Hey, you're worth it man!

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby, I'm going to play on:-"

[jcwillow777]

Welcome.

 

Some good info here. I have to agree with Steven though. I have been playing for 40+ years and a good guitar is imprtant when starting out. A good guitar will make you want to practice. I have a couple of G-400s and I love them and can recommend one. I just tried out a faded G-400 Saturday and was blown away by how the neck felt, much slimmer neck profile than any of my G-400s. On the other hand a crumby sounding amp won't help to inspire you to want to practice. I have several tube amps, and I love them and all of the pedals I have too, but, I just bought a Vox AD30VT to use at school and have been pleasingly surprised. I teach music in a couple of elementary schools. The amp was $250, and well worth it. It has some nice acceptable overdrive options and as well as clean, and it has several effects as well. Another nice feature of the Vox is that it has an adjustment knob for the ouput wattage. What that means is that you can get the sound you like, especially for overdrive/distortion and turn the wattage down so you can practice at lower volumes. It has a tube preamp section which helps to get some really nice overdrive/distorion, a very nice feature.

 

I would suggest a modeling amp of some kind when staring out though, because they do have built in effects which are nice. I ahev heard good things abut the Roland Cube also, as has already been stated.

 

I can't scroll down to see how much you wanted to spend, I thought you said $650. This would be $550, with the faded G-400, and you could get a nice case, tuner and strap for just a little more than $650.

 

As a musician, which you already are, I don't think you will be happy with a nice guitar and a crappy sounding practice amp, or vice versa. They all work together to get you a sound that will help inspire to you practice.

 

Check out Sweetwater.com. Give them a call and see if they can give you a better price than what is online. They may, and I like dealiing with them more than MF.

[wiltshire willy]

if i were you i'd jump on this....like NOW.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-Valve-Junior-Amp-Line-6-Pocket-Pod_W0QQitemZ230299700762QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230299700762&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

fRANKS RIGHT...what a good deal even at buy now price its reasonable and the pocket pods are awesome as a headphone amp as well as a pedal so go for it if you can

cheers

W W

[theeges]

All good ideas here. Another thing you have to ask yourself is how many people live with you, do you live in a house or apartment, and if you are going to be using your amp, or one of your teachers' when being taught? I ask all this because if you have a family, or roommates, they are not going to want to hear you practice. The neighbors in an apartment complex don't want to hear it either...trust me I know. I have a wife and 2 kids that would rather listen to the TV or radio than me doing scales, so about 50% of the time I practice unplugged. When I get a chance to get on the computer I will plug my POD XT into it and practice, which is maybe 40% of the time. But when the kids are at school and the wife is out I get to crank up my Valve Junior.

I personally like the Vintage G-400 more than the regular G-400, so "I" would get that. For listening to yourself I would try to get a used POD XT. That way you can hear yourself with a nice set of headphones, you have many amp emmulations and effects to choose from, a built in tuner, and when hooked up to the computer you can play along with any song you want to learn. It will even slow the song down to half speed to learn the trickier parts.

Later, after you decide whether you are going to stick with it or not you can have somewhat of an idea of what amp you want to get based loosely on the different amp emmulations that the POD represent.

I guess I'm not a tone snob, I, like the rest of my band don't use an amp on stage. We plug directly into the board with our PODs. The only reason I have the Valve Junior is for that 10% of the time I can enjoy true tube tone!

[lostindesert]

Good guitar and decent amp. 15 watts is enough for home, practicing or small gigs.

 

Peter

[tonedeaf1281734100]

My inclination would be to put a bit more money into the guitar. If you are just learning how to play, you really don't need effects, overdrive, or much power.

 

Sure, if you get "bitten" you will want a better amplifier, but that may well be true even if you go with the more expensive of the two now.

 

I agree that you can generally get better sound from a cheap guitar played through a good amplifier than you can from even the best guitar played through a crappy amplifier, but to someone starting out, I think playability of the guitar is more important.

 

The exception would be if you hed been able to try out both models of the SG and found no difference between the two.

[RichardLionhart]

"It's good to be the king." =)

 

First, I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to read and respond to my post. The general consensus seems to be that I got some pretty good advice. I went in to my local guitar shop after leaving the office today and looked at a few things based on what was said in the forums.

 

They had a standard G-400, but not the 1966 Limited Edition. I again held this one and clumsily strummed to my heart's content. This really felt good to me. Something about this just says, "Rick's Guitar". From what I've read, the only difference in the two guitars is a different pickup in the neck. I would assume it's a better pickup in the limited edition, but I don't know for certain. Other than that, it all seems to be a preference of aesthetics. I must say that I really (and I put the funk on REALLY) like the look of the limited edition.

 

As for the amp... I had my friendly salesperson play a few licks for me on some different amps. I asked that he play the same licks/riffs on the Spider III 15, Marshall MG15, and a Roland Micro Cube.

 

Being a newb, I have to admit that I'm a fan of all the nifty little effects. So, that immediately nixed the standard $130 Marshall.

 

I DID like the Line6, but after listening to it compared to the others... well... it seemed so... "electronic"? Maybe that's not the best term, but the sound just didn't seem natural to me. Don't get me wrong... I do like it, but it really rings of a digital feel to me.

 

The Roland - How could this ugly little square give me anything enough to even practice? I happily ate my words. I was quite impressed with the amount of sound this put out for it's size. This one also didn't have that robotic feel I mentioned with the Line6. Well, the Phaser effect was definitely unnatural, but I enjoyed the rest. This was also the amp recommended by the salesperson for a beginner's practice amp.

 

I also looked at that e-bay deal someone posted for me. To be honest, I am quite skeptical about something like that as a starter amp. Maybe I'm under the wrong assumption, but I thought you always had to play really loud to get any sound of value out of a tube amp. As I own my own home and live with my fiance', that really isn't a problem aside from personal preference. I just don't need something blaring in my ear at >10 all the time. But again, I might be misinformed.

 

So, to make a short story long... I believe I will be going with the 66 Limited Edition and Roland Micro Cube. That seems to be the best starting combo for "me". I will continue to do a little more research before I place my order this week or weekend. Thank you again everyone. You've all been very courteous and helpful and that is greatly appreciated. Maybe by this time next year, I'll be one of "you guys" answering a question for a budding new guitarist.

[layboomo]

I think you made the right choice! Get the best guitar you can and either a good SS like the cubeor a vox valvetronix if you want the modeling. If not get a valve Jr for pure tube tone ...add a good used pod later and you are set!

[rbc]

Richard,just some input from another beginner.

I went with a G-400 and the Microcube and am very happy with that combo.

One of the cool things about the Micro is that it is so small in size,that it does not dominate whatever room you have it in.

I started about 2 months ago and can see it will be long slow haul but I am enjoying the ride !

good luck

rbc

[rpach10115]

My 2 cents:

 

Go with a semi hollow body guitar. a dot is perfect.

This way you can play both plugged, and au natural'.

Learning on a semi-hollow is a great experience. Better than an acoustic,because it's easier to play, better than a solid body becauzse now you can practice without an amp.

 

Try an Epi EVJ amp. Very inexpensive. Tube sound. Combo amps are great for practice, Head/cabinet combo is upgradeable in the future if you want to. Great add on modifications that are easy to install and cheap.

 

After you've been playing for a little while, you will know what you want. Your music background makes you more advanced than a beginner.

[aphawki]

Hey Richard! Welcome from another Newbie!! (By the way this is an awesome forum take any of the suggestions you get...pretty hard to get a bad one here!)

 

Ok here is my 2 cents. My first guitar and amp combo was an Ibanez GAX70 and a Line 6 Spider III 15W. I liked the Line 6 because I thought it would be able to compensate for the cheaper guitar due to all of the "stuff" I could do with it. The problem that I ran into was the same as what has been said here already...I didn't like playing the Ibanez...it just didn't feel right. Fortunately I wandered into the local guitar store to show my wife the Zakk Wylde Epiphone they had...she saw it and said (and I quote) "That is the ugliest thing I have ever seen..." (ouch...I like it.) but she did look over to her left and saw an Epiphone LP Classic and said she did really like that one though...well luckily so did I. Well after returning the Ibanez in under 30 days for the Epiphone Classic, it was the best decision I have ever made (so far). Well after playing my guitar though the Line 6 I was just not getting the sound that I wanted, so back to the guitar store where I bought a Marshall MG10 mainly due to the fact that it was right about the same price as the Line 6. Well that lasted for about 1 week, and I returned this amp for my Marshall MG15CDR. I love the sound that I get from both the amp and the guitar. Granted most people hate the MG line...not sure why they don't like it, guess cause it's not a tube.

 

Long story made just a bit longer...put a bit extra into both. Get what you like the first time...within reason and budget. I started with 199 for the guitar and just wasn't happy, ended up spending 398 for the Epiphone and trust me I am way way more than 200 dollars happier! Same thing with the amp, the Line 6 was 99 bucks (it is a lot of amp for us newbies and very fun...still have mine) but I really wanted the look and the basic design of the smaller Marshall...It was 150 and again I am very happy. But like just about everyone else has said...get what you like cause then you will play it...but just make sure not to skimp too much!

 

Good luck!!!

[aphawki]

Ok sorry...should have read the last posts!!!

 

Nice choice Richard!!! I think you will be really happy with both!

 

Good luck!

[mrjones200x]

"It's good to be the king." =)

 

Maybe I'm under the wrong assumption' date=' but I thought you always had to play really loud to get any sound of value out of a tube amp. [/quote']

 

With the VJ as its a one trick pony the louder it go's the more distortion you get. Simple but obviously not for everyone. You can hook up an attenuator for a few quid so you can run at quiet volumes with the amp being pushed hard.

 

Other tube amps sometimes have different channels so like you have a clean channel and a lead channel ect. Dont know how they work exactly but you can play the lead channel quitely if desiered.