Ignore Them And They Will Go Away

[ant7629]

I do see your point, especially regarding the recent Custom post. A bad guitar is a bad guitar, regardless of where it is made and such craftsmanship (if you can call it that) is inexcusable.

 

Have you played a recently made Chinese Epiphone? Granted, when they first began making them over there, there were a lot of problems and a lot of bad guitars have been produced. But I think this was teething problems and they have definitely sorted things out over there. My Epi Custom is late 08, and as I said, a very impressive guitar, visually and practically.

 

This has happened with many relocations Japan, Korea, Mexico with Fender... all of which have now produced guitars which are well respected.

 

I am not ignoring your comments at all, but at least try a new Epiphone. I think you will be in for a big surprise.

 

Also, can you post some pics of your guitars? Its always nice to see people's collections.

[Duffy]

There is an atmosphere of jitteryness on this forum that I have noticed since getting on the forum a lot lately.

 

Marxbro and Nelson are bullies and maybe even Gibson plants on the forum, here to intimidate you into buying Gibsons. Gibson quality I hear has gone down and Heritage has gone up. Gibson quality is a thing of the past. Dudes are always posting that their ESP's, Epi's, etc., sound way better a/b'd. These characters need to realize what time it is.

 

We are here to talk about our Epi's not listen to the abuse of these two has beens. I wonder if they listen to songs like "Ohio" by CSNY? I seriously doubt it. I just think they are on the other side and come here with wrenches of hate trying fo F*** with us. Unpitiful, low lifes with nothing to do but express their always insulting, sorry a**, posts, trying to antagonize us well meaning people.

 

Gratifying them by throwing them a bone of tolerance and treating them like they might know something after all is a waste of time because they really don't know anything about how to communicate with people and don't care about us.

 

They call us kids that are delusional about our newer Epi's. They have rejected the fact that the world turned on them a long, long time ago. What's that song Neil Young wrote, "Don't let it get you Down. Its only castles burning. Find someone that's turning, and you will come around."

 

These dudes are old castles (or shacks) that are all burnt out. They are things of the past like dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, loose in our forum trying to prey on us like some extinct breed.

 

Let them gloat over their old relics. If the facts were known probably half the guitars they have haven't even been taken care of and have cob job wiring, pickups that don't work, and sound like s***. Not to mention twisted necks, fret buzz, age cracks, corroded parts, etc. And they have the ignorance to criticize new technology. Those CNC machines and their operators in the Far East do incredible jobs of reproducing guitar parts. The prices are way low when you factor in inflation.

The quality is certainly way more consistent than when they were first mass producing these old relics that they hoard.

 

Hey, I'd like to have an old relic too, but what would you do with it? The glue is probably all crystalized and dried out and they are probably not going to stand up to heavy playing anymore. They are like treasures that you have because they give you a sense of pleasure, but they aren't something that the average dude would go out and thrash on, or even shred on.

 

These guys are has beens that haven't changed and they persistently haunt the forum like viscous animals with no manners or congeniality. It's always sour a**, limp dic*ed, Pi**ing and moaning and trying to put a burr under your saddle.

 

Everyone should refuse to tolerate their s*** and slam them back, like they deserve, when they show up with their s***. They wouldn't be able to get away with this s*** on the street. They would be reigned in real quick and wouldn't be continuing to insult people. They would be done with their s*** quick.

 

But they hide behind the untouchableness of the internet and the fact that this forum is not moderated.

 

Most of the forums I go to they would be kicked off quicker than s***. They found a place to f*** with people that they don't like. Do you think they care about us? Do you think they are trying to help us make good decisions and so forth like they seem to suggest? No.

 

These guys are like thugs that try to make themselves look like they are trying to help out the community. Well they ain't helping out our community and we need to stand up to them like the thugs that they are.

 

I bet they can't even play for s***, if at all. Probably don't play at all. Has beens. Here to f*** with well meaning people that are just trying to get along discussing our problems and ideas.

 

I'd say get on them constantly, just like they get on us. Foul has beens that don't know what time it is, living in the past, and will never know that there is a new beat, a new song on the street.

 

These guys obviously can't relate to where we are at. They don't have anything in common with us and don't deserve to be respected for any reason if they continue to be foul, hostile, F***s.

 

Duffy

[AS90]

 

 

 

 

Not mine but some examples of what REAL Epiphones look like..still think you own an Epiphone?

 

 

 

 

Mr.Nelson

 

 

Yep

 

[LHC- Jr.]

There is an atmosphere of jitteryness on this forum that I have noticed since getting on the forum a lot lately.

 

Everyone should refuse to tolerate their s*** and slam them back' date=' like they deserve, when they show up with their s***.

Duffy[/quote']

 

I agree with almost everything you said except the part about "slamming them back". That is exactly what they want. If you do that, you're giving them what they come here for...

 

It seems to be typical of SOME old guys that they love to revel in the old days: "The girls back then were prettier, the grass was greener, and the guitars sounded better. Not like today when everything sucks..." Guys who talk like that are just missing their "glory days", i.e. the time when they still had all of their teeth and could still ... well, you know what I mean.

 

We really should just ignore the people in question. Reacting to asinine comments only guarantees that these people will continue to make them over and over and over again....

[Dave]

We can be a group of people with like interests who gather to discuss same, or we can be that group that hangs out behind the gas station arguing about whether Fords or Chevys are best. The latter group draws a crowd when two of its members choose to duke it out next to the dumpster.

 

Lately, we have been the latter. There's no value in dissing each other's equipment. No one learns new ways to utilize Epiphones and the arguments are not productive.

 

A $500 guitar is a $500 guitar. We have seen an example lately of sloppy workmanship, but there's hope that Epiphone will make that one good (the white LP with sloppy control cavity and poor binding and neck tenon. I think that post was valuable because it will make us buy locally where we can examine the instrument before we lay our money down. It's in Epiphone's best interest to replace that guitar with one that exhibits good workmanship, especially since it has been posted on this forum for all the world to see. Mr. Administrator, here's your chance to elevate that to management.

 

Comparing Gibson to Epiphone is non-productive. Most Epis are great guitars made using cost effective labor and suitable components. Lots of us own Gibsons and Epiphones. We know that there are slight differences. To make a Epiphone closer to a Gibson, you have to spend some more money on pickups and hardware. The base model isn't a bad guitar, just one that can be improved and still be 1/4 the cost of a Gibson.

 

There will always be vintage Gibsons that are jewels. There are vintage Epiphones in the same category. Bashing today's imports and comparing them to the classics of the 50's and 60's is also non-productive. Nothing good will come of it.

[JefferySmith]

 

No' date=' what is truly bizarre behaviour is someone who makes almost 1700 posts and has never offered anything beyond self-referential head nodding and mindless cheer leading...I own eight Epiphones and none of them is the Chinese crap that's being passed off these days as Epiphones. I would say that gives me a right to make statements when I see a bunch of sheep being lead along because the name on the headstock is the same one that was once on guitars of quality... where now it's used to sell illusions to empty-headed dreamers who'd rather gather together and pretend than to actually [i']know [/i] ...how many Epiphones do you own? Ignore me all you want..it changes nothing...

 

 

Mr.Nelson

 

I'll have to start flaming people. Silly me.

[JefferySmith]

 

Not mine but some examples of what REAL Epiphones look like..still think you own an Epiphone?

 

 

Mr.Nelson

 

 

If they are somebody else's guitars, it would seem that you don't own an Epiphone either. Do you really think that they people on this forum buy guitars simply for the logo on the headstock? Maybe they like them for something other than name recognition. I've never gotten the impression that the people on this forum have a BMW mentality, but you obviously do. Why not leave them (and me) well enough alone rather than your relentless tirade that our guitars are all crap.

[Lord Summerisle]

Maybe this is a really stupid idea, which would be fitting, given that Mr Nelson has already declared me "a clown."

 

But...

 

We have an Epiphone electrics forum, acoustics forum, amps forum and so on...

 

Couldn't we just have add a "Vintage Epiphones" forum also?

 

Would that appease those who want to see a distinction between vintage and modern Epis?

 

If so, can someone suggest it to the mysterious Shadow?

[JefferySmith]

Maybe this is a really stupid idea' date=' which would be fitting, given that Mr Nelson has already declared me "a clown."

 

But...

 

We have an Epiphone electrics forum, acoustics forum, amps forum and so on...

 

Couldn't we just have add a "Vintage Epiphones" forum also?

 

Would that appease those who want to see a distinction between vintage and modern Epis?

 

If so, can someone suggest it to the mysterious Shadow?[/quote']

You'd have to draw the line where vintage ends. I would think that American Epiphones would be a good place to draw the line. Don't know which year that was, though. Others here do.

[freak show]

Couldn't we just have add a "Vintage Epiphones" forum also?

 

Would that appease those who want to see a distinction between vintage and modern Epis?

 

Do you really think that would solve "the problem"?

 

There are countless forums on the Internet for fans of vintage guitars, fans of Gibson guitars, fans of insulting behaviour, etc.. The problem here seems to be that a fan of all of the above mentioned has decided to spend his time in an Epiphone forum...

[RobinTheHood]

People who hang out on Epiphone forums and express their dislike for them is pretty bizarre behavior. Like criticizing fat people on the Weight Watchers forum.

 

I dont see a problem critisizing Epiphone for their shoddy workmanship (when it happens) or for their bloated prices. And I do have to agree that Epiphone is overpriced these days, and we see the prices going up and quality falling to the wayside in many cases. I'm not explicitly trying to tolerate or validate anyone, but the truth is the truth.

I just cant stand the gross generalization implying that anyone that says a good thing about modern Epiphone guitars is a vapid, brainless, delusional fanboy. Maybe some people are? I dont know and I dont care. Its not for me or anyone else to critisize someone's feelings toward something they may hold dear or make them feel stupid or inadequate for it. At the end of the day, I'm more concerned with my guitar playing, rather than the guitar I am playing on.

Would I buy a Chinese Epi? Not likely. I've heard and seen too many bad things at this point. But i've never consciously decided to buy any guitar I own with a brand name or country of origin in mind. My guitars all found me. Cheap garbage or not, I'm happy with my purchases and they suit my needs. And I will say good things about them where they deserve it, and vice versa.

[JefferySmith]

 

Do you really think that would solve "the problem"?

 

There are countless forums on the Internet for fans of vintage guitars' date=' fans of Gibson guitars, fans of insulting behaviour, etc.. The problem here seems to be that a fan of all of the above mentioned has decided to spend his time in an Epiphone forum...[/quote']

 

Hey, I never thought the trolls would go over there instead of here. In fact, I doubt that there are enough vintage epiphone owners to even support a forum. There might be two posts per week. Not a place for a newbie to get information (and forums are for exchange of information and opinions).

 

I do wonder what sort of insults would be leveled on the guys at a vintage guitar forum. That they are clinging to old, obsolete trash?

[Lord Summerisle]

You'd have to draw the line where vintage ends. I would think that American Epiphones would be a good place to draw the line. Don't know which year that was' date=' though. Others here do.[/quote']

 

I know it's not a perfect distinction, but I'd probably draw the cut-off point at 1970.

 

That seems to be the year in which mainstream American manufacture of the semis and hollowbodies ceased, with production moving to Japan thereafter.

 

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/epiphon2.html#casino

 

I agree it's probably not a useful idea however.

 

For some individuals, baiting new Epi owners is still going to be a lot more fun than actually discussing vintage Epis.

[Nic]

No...this is The Epiphone Forum....maybe it's you who belongs in "The Cheap Chinese Trash Being Passed Off As Epiphones To Kids And Delusional Dreamers Forum"...The only thing that gives the Chinese crap even the most remote validity is that name on the headstock ...

 

Mr.Nelson

 

The old Epiphones are from a different time and universe. They aren't comparable to today's Epiphones.

 

I'm not delusional, I actually don't own an Epiphone, the last one was traded for a Telecaster a few weeks ago. I have a few really nice guitars including Gibsons and agree that Gibsons are better guitars but Epiphones are by far a better value. Value being a function of price and quality.

[JefferySmith]

 

The old Epiphones are from a different time and universe. They aren't comparable to today's Epiphones.

 

I'm not delusional' date=' I actually don't own an Epiphone, the last one was traded for a Telecaster a few weeks ago. I have a few really nice guitars including Gibsons and agree that Gibsons are better guitars but Epiphones are by far a better value. Value being a function of price and quality.

[/quote']

 

My idea of cheap Asian crap is the Japanese guitars of the 1960's that had massive neck diameters, high action, and a neck as straight as a ... sickle. As players, the Asian guitars of today are far better than what was around 40 years ago, as are the Asian cars. As far as having "Epiphone" on the headstock, you can see the same thing in just about all products. Companies buy the rights to names all of the time. I have a dozen "Voigtlander Germany" cameras and lenses, all of which were made in Japan. Contax cameras were made in Japan, not Germany. Rollei 35's were made in Singapore. The forums still use the company names, but nobody but an idiot would be fooled into thinking that they are the same as half a century ago. Trust me (Nelson), the people on the forum are not under the impression that these are guitars made in Kalamazoo, nor are the people on the Gibson forum. Give us some credit, okay?

[TWANG]

I may or may not like your guitar.

But I don't call you stupid and delusional and sheep for liking it.

 

The very idea that a person thinks a gibson of a certain era is the coolest bean in the pot is kinda silly.

It's only that for you.

the guy next to you, with a tele, thinks otherwise. And you can't really compare the two in any objective fashion when it comes down

to workmanship or craft, etc.

It would be a joke. One chunk of alder with a bolt on neck compared to a gibson les paul with all the bells and whistles.

The tele player would never be able justify his choice.

 

Neither would the rick player. Or the PRS. They vary too much.

 

There is no one perfect tone. There is no one perfect action.

People like different sounds different touch and different look.

 

There is no one perfect wood choice. No one perfect any damned thing.

 

There's a magic about guitars. And it comes from a person syncing up with one he likes.

And sticking with it until he likes another better.

Success at playing, and the money you get doing it, results in more choices.

Ego comes into play. People change. For the better as well as the worse, and either way, so what?

 

Had I the money, I'd have some gibsons. and ricks. and more.

But I'd still have my epis, and I wouldn't be tossing them in any junk pile as delusional choices, or poor mans substitutes.

 

I've already owned gibsons, and ricks and usa fenders and on and on. Lots of guitars over the years.

 

One of the basses I miss most had a non stock fender body.

It wouldn't have any collectibility enhancement. But it was what I liked.

Any collector would pooh pooh that choice. It wasn't the 'right' bass for his criteria.

I don't care. He isn't right for me, he's only right for him.

Good for him and shut up.

 

One of the acoustics I miss was a humble Alvarez. It had tone! But it wasn't the perfect tone, it was just the tone

I, me, personally, particularly, individually liked.

For some, my choices can't be right according to some data they collected.

My ears collect data, and they feed it to my brain.. MY brain. Not theirs.

For some, only the down the line according to all the experts and history and marketing choice is the correct one.

For me, it's the guitar itself, and how I interact with it.

And I wish I had that Alvarez back, and I'd trade my taylor for it in an instant.

The Taylor is a thousand bucks. The Alvarez was 225.00.

 

NOTHING will convince anyone else that's a good choice.

But to sit around in a forum and shout stupid at me is bullying, petty, immature, negative, insulting, egomanical, and I could list words

for another paragraph without taking a breath but only wind up at nuts.

 

All we can do is look at how some view epiphones, and by that I mean other people choices, and say to ourselves.

I may not have the perfect guitar, but at least I'm not a jerk.

Because they aren't going to change thier behavior anymore than I'm going to change my taste.

 

The Al Quadas (sp) of this group know who they are. They want only one thing, and they want it acknowledged by all, and nobody gets to heaven

except them.

I just wish they'd go now.

But they aren't going to. They're going to continue to fly planes into buildings, and to hell with the wreckage.

Fortunately, they aren't real planes. They're just imaginary planes. and imaginary buildings.

And the delusion is theirs. And the sheepliness is theirs. And they are welcome to it.

 

None of their arguments stay on point. The deteriorate consistently into insults and bullying and lies and

nastiness of all sorts.

Logic eludes them. Humanity eludes them. They worship at the alter of their own egos.

The perfection they claim is the perfection they feel when they look in the mirror.

 

Some people are healthy enough to be happy. Some people are not able to be happpy unless everyone agrees their particular happiness

is THE happiness, and any other happiness to them is a disease which must be eradicated.

To me, that's just the weak psyche, crying in the wilderness.. the lost soul, wending it's way through the fog of self righteousness,

the child who never grew up.

 

Like it or not, I like my sheraton just fine as it is. Like it or not, nobody elses 'version of this sort of guitar' sounds like mine.

How in the world can anyone change that for me? And why would they try?

 

Anti social behavior hidden behind old catalogs, ridiculous collections of the same guitar, and an unyeilding view that only one opinion matters

is as silly a thing as ever was produced in a human mind.

 

And as irritating as cabbage gas on an elevator.

So we wave our hands and crinkle our noses and frown and point.

But to no avail.

 

And away goes the perpetrator happily singing

 

it's my forum and I'll fart if I want to.

 

It's not gonna change.

This is addressed to the forum in general, and the reactions of those you all clearly know I'm talking about will not

be read or recieve reply.

 

That's my opinion and no sense explaining it over and over.

 

TWANG

[Bender 4 Life]

Hey Jeffery, I had a 1968 Univox Coiley that was made in Japan, and was as playable as any, good action(allowing for the floating bridge) good Filtertron copy "pole & staple" p'ups, and fit & finish to rival any guitar under about

$2000 (in todays money).

 

Its only drawback was a cheap vibrato system that I "tightened up" with an industrial spring and a nickle.

 

That guitar cost me $200 used, and If I still had it, i'd be a much happier man.

 

It will always be......."the one that got away".

 

The tone was absolutely haunting...........

[RobinTheHood]

Trust me (Nelson)' date=' the people on the forum are not under the impression that these are guitars made in Kalamazoo, nor are the people on the Gibson forum. [b']Give us some credit, okay?[/b]

 

Thats a nice sentiment, Jeffery, but we both know that isnt whats going on here. Most of this crap is started under the pretense of "enlightenment" and "truth", but is said in such a manner as to only start flamewars and spread feelings of ire toward other forum members instead of Epiphone's subpar business practices...which is where the anger truly needs to be directed. If Nelson and Marx truly wanted to spread the word about Epiphone's slide into the Chinese gutter, they would stop dividing the forum members and instead rally them with information.

I know that there are alot of people here that like and agree with their information when it actually presents itself. But the other 75% of what they say is too divisive and insulting on a personal level...and most people wont get behind them or openly agree with them for that reason alone. Thus, they come to the conclusion that we are all mindless lemmings waiting for the angels to sing when Epiphone releases it's newest models.

[Whitmore Willy]

Don't mind me.

I just stopped by to practice my typing.......

 

[JefferySmith]

Hey Jeffery' date=' I had a 1968 Univox Coiley that was made in Japan, and was as playable as any, good action(allowing for the floating bridge) good Filtertron copy "pole & staple" p'ups, and fit & finish to rival any guitar under about

$2000 (in todays money).

 

Its only drawback was a cheap vibrato system that I "tightened up" with an industrial spring and a nickle.

 

That guitar cost me $200 used, and If I still had it, i'd be a much happier man.

 

It will always be......."the one that got away".

 

The tone was absolutely haunting...........[/quote']

The three that I had tried out and hated were Teisco, St. George, and Ibanez. The Ibanez was a flattop acoustic with steel strings about 1/4" above the frets. They were certainly better than no guitar at all, but (like the early Japanese cars), they needed more time to develop.

 

Now I wish that all of my guitars were Japanese.

[Mr.Nelson]

 

 

If only I had a brain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TWANG

 

 

 

[JefferySmith]

 

Thats a nice sentiment' date=' Jeffery, but we both know that isnt whats going on here. Most of this crap is started under the pretense of "enlightenment" and "truth", but is said in such a manner as to only start flamewars and spread feelings of ire toward other forum members instead of Epiphone's subpar business practices...which is where the anger truly needs to be directed. If Nelson and Marx truly wanted to spread the word about Epiphone's slide into the Chinese gutter, they would stop dividing the forum members and instead rally them with information.

I know that there are alot of people here that like and agree with their information when it actually presents itself. But the other 75% of what they say is too divisive and insulting on a personal level...and most people wont get behind them or openly agree with them for that reason alone. Thus, they come to the conclusion that we are all mindless lemmings waiting for the angels to sing when Epiphone releases it's newest models.[/quote']

 

And I'm always interested in Epiphone's new releases when they are gems like the Riviera. I wait with nervous anticipation at the release of the new Wilshire. If it is a piece of crap, I won't buy it. And if it is great and I can afford it, I might buy it. I don't really care THAT much about Epiphone's history (I couldn't afford the $100+ collector paperback about the company). I am interested in playable, attractive, good sounding guitars at a price I can afford. After dozens of insults from the two house trolls, they have lost all of their credibility to me. Little of the content in their posts is useful to me at all. Like a heckler in an audience, I can tolerate them but wish they would shut up.

[Lord Summerisle]

If only I had a brain

 

If only you had a heart.

[Mr.Nelson]

 

Yep

 

 

 

Keep dreaming...nice Asian copy of something that sorta looks like a Sheraton...but real Sheratons NEVER had stop tail pieces...nice copy, as I said...but still just a copy of something else...

 

Mr.Nelson

[Ron G]

Well, at least some of you understood my point.......(sigh)