FennRx Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 i will be the voice of dissent here. I would not use a shotgun for home defense. 1) the gun is large and hard to maneuver in close spaces 2) the best buckshot to use penetrates way too much. as for not using a rifle- all i can say is that with the proper load, 5.56 penetrates LESS than buckshot and handgun calibers. I believe that Hornady makes a cool 5.56 that turns to dust when it goes through drywall but is great (as good as 5.56 can be, which is another thread) for living things. plus, if you're in a "free state" you can SBR the AR, making it much better for CQC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmurray Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 heymisterk - have you thought about moving? If the neighbourhood is turning to sh!t why not get out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I believe that Hornady makes a cool 5.56 that turns to dust when it goes through drywall but is great (as good as 5.56 can be, which is another thread) for living things. It's called Frangible ammunition. Winchester and others make it as well. It also comes in pistol calibers. In my home, I still grab my tactical shotty before my M4. 18" bbl and colapsed M4 stock leaves me plenty of room to manuver. It's no more of a profile than if I grabbed my M4. Everyone has what they are comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 My home defense.........A Spaz 12.........................that's all I'll mention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm just going to interject one problem tacitly about the shotgun with the pistol grip. Stability and control at discharge. Not all shooters physically do well, the hand is absorbing a great deal of the energy, shock, recoil, blow-back, whatever you care to call it. It in many cases is better to leave a standard stock on the shotgun. It helps to absorb the energy, or recoil, and can be rested against the body. The torso of the body has greater mass to steady the weapon, and again absorb the energy. It also aides in point ability (aim) of the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm just going to interject one problem tacitly about the shotgun with the pistol grip. Stability and control at discharge. Not all shooters physically do well, the hand is absorbing a great deal of the energy, shock, recoil, blow-back, whatever you care to call it. It in many cases is better to leave a standard stock on the shotgun. It helps to absorb the energy, or recoil, and can be rested against the body. The torso of the body has greater mass to steady the weapon, and again absorb the energy. It also aides in point ability (aim) of the weapon. I've never had a problem with mine, it's very similar to my M4, so I am used to the "feel" of it. Myself, I still feel most of the recoil in my shoulder pocket than my wrist, but it is different than a standard stocked shotgun. It all goes back to what you are most comfortable with and what you train with regularly. Like FennRx will grab his AR with a mag of frangible, I can do that as well, but for me, I like to start with a shotgun. Keeping on track with the original post, he's not a gun person, so I doubt he's going to jump into an AR or any other advanced weaponry. So, with that in mind, I still suggest the shotgun or a revolver out of simplicity and less training required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That's why I mentioned not all shooters. I really wouldn't recommend a pistol grip to a new shooter. It's great you do well with yours though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That's why I mentioned not all shooters. I really wouldn't recommend a pistol grip to a new shooter. It's great you do well with yours though. Yes, true. The only time I feel it in the wrist a bit is when I'm shooting a bunch of magnum slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Slugs and sabots will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 heymisterk - have you thought about moving? If the neighbourhood is turning to sh!t why not get out? You know, I fear I might have overstated that point a bit: My neighborhood is definitely "mixed income." Most of my neighbors are good, hard-working folk whom I am friends with. Ironically - to me, anyway - my great friends across the street are a gay couple. One of them has extensive firearm training in the military, but I would assume the training for owning a handgun used for self defense would be different than for military training. They are interested in participating in the gun safety course as well. But...In our neighborhood just on my block there are a handful of Section 8 houses with LOTS of comings and goings by visitors. Police have been called multiple times for multiple issues on multiple houses. In addition, we have some abandoned houses in our neighborhood. Since the summer, there have been three burglaries that I am aware of in my neighborhood. Now, one was an abandoned home but the other two were not. Moving is not an option: First of all, I believe in my community and love where I live, this little drama notwithstanding. Second, trying to sell my house in this market...well, I don't even want to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 OK, one thing you all seem to be in general agreement on is IF I were to go with a handgun, a revolver is a better choice than a semi-auto, at least for a person like me. I have also heard the .38 and a .357 as a possibility. Neo, you mentioned both. What makes that - I don't want to say a good choice - but worth considering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 OK, one thing you all seem to be in general agreement on is IF I were to go with a handgun, a revolver is a better choice than a semi-auto, at least for a person like me. I have also heard the .38 and a .357 as a possibility. Neo, you mentioned both. What makes that - I don't want to say a good choice - but worth considering? If you get a .357 Mag, you can also shoot .38 special in it as well. .38 is usually cheaper and has less recoil than the .357 magnum. It will allow you to practice longer and cheaper, then your home defense round will be the .357 Mag. Now, you still need to practice with your defense round as well, but you have the benefit of using both with one handgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you do go the shotgun route remember to use an improved cylinder choke tube so the pattern opens up for close range, you don't want a particularly tight spray. I don't own any handguns, everything I own was purchased with hunting in mind, so I keep a box of 6 shot turkey loads next to my 870. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 You know, I fear I might have overstated that point a bit: My neighborhood is definitely "mixed income." Most of my neighbors are good, hard-working folk whom I am friends with. Ironically - to me, anyway - my great friends across the street are a gay couple. One of them has extensive firearm training in the military, but I would assume the training for owning a handgun used for self defense would be different than for military training. They are interested in participating in the gun safety course as well. But...In our neighborhood just on my block there are a handful of Section 8 houses with LOTS of comings and goings by visitors. Police have been called multiple times for multiple issues on multiple houses. In addition, we have some abandoned houses in our neighborhood. Since the summer, there have been three burglaries that I am aware of in my neighborhood. Now, one was an abandoned home but the other two were not. Moving is not an option: First of all, I believe in my community and love where I live, this little drama notwithstanding. Second, trying to sell my house in this market...well, I don't even want to think about it. I don't have anything to add on the home security side, but will add that abandoned homes are very bad for a neighborhood. They are magnets for squatters; most of whom are not desirable. They also tend to F up moral on the block. I know when we bought our home it had been un-lived in for at least a year and half and the neighbors on my block did not hold back expressing their happiness that someone moved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Neo... Remember that the "fireball" was by intent for a special purpose ammo. Mostly now I carry and practice with by storebought jhp for a number of reasons. Corbon, by the way, is headquartered only 30 miles from where I live. They moved here because state government and the people are more friendly to the idea of firearms type manufacturing. My state government will have a presence at the SHOT show this January emphasizing that perspective to manufacturers, btw. The Glaser Safety Slug also is from Corbon. For those who don't know, it's probably the most recognized brand/design of the "frangible" bullet. But it's not cheap. As to calibers: A .38 Special has a given length for the brass case. Most revolvers designed for it will be set up so that the case itself hits a shoulder at that cartridge length. A .357 "magnum" is a slightly longer length of the brass case that will not allow it into a .38 special firearm. Ditto, btw, the .44 Special and .44 magnum. The reason why is that older firearms were made of steels that were questionable with loads that created greater pressure when the cartridge went "bang." So for safety's sake, the .357 was created as we know it now. At the time it was the "most powerful" factory sidearm available since the Walker Colt of 1846 - a black powder, percussion revolver that weighed 2 kilos, 4.5 pounds. That's big. It also was too big and perhaps too powerful given steels of the day. Smokeless powder experimentation resulted in a lot of damaged firearms and eventually the compromise called the ".357 magnum" circa 1934. So... <grin> Personally I think the more powerful versions of the .357 are far more appropriate for use in a rifle. But that's the sort of argument that keeps firearms magazines in business and has led to a million discussions over coffee among both professionals and amateurs. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Milod spoke about one issue I have with shotguns, muzzle flash...the other issue is impact, in a tight area if you use a high power load be prepared for the mess! Which was one of the points to my previous post about shooting a water bottle at close range...my first instructor took two cans of oil, put one on top of the other, and from 25 feet shot the bottom can with a M1 Garrand (30-06), the bottom can was pretty much gone, the top can which wasn't even hit spit in two and flew about 10 feet into the air, both cans threw oil everywhere. He was a Marine who had served in Korea and wanted to make a point to the group of young want to be's...these guns do serious damage, chances are good that with a high power load at close range the shooter will be hit by blow back consisting of the intended target..It can get messy... Pick the ammo carefully to minimize the mess, but still get the job done. I have a Charter Arms .44 Spec. and a .45 ACP Springfield Compact which are my main defense weapons, a .357 Mag loaded with .38 P or PP would be fine also. It should also be noted the more people have been shot with .22 rim fires then just about any other caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Bugger it.. lets all get guns, bigger and better Just in case we need it and just in case the "bad guys" have bigger weapons too. heres a rather nice one!! http://www.tactical-life.com/online/combat-handguns/covert-big-guns/ Right to bear arms, do we stop at pistols or get some big *** rocket launchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 heres a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Jax... RE: the .22 - yeah, because it was really the first cartridge arm as we know it today. <grin> The problem always with this sort of discussion is that even "the old guys" never really agree on equipment or tactics, and largely because of personal experience at this or that. It comes back to my very first comment here... Everything can work, including a pillow, nothing always works regardless of theoretical advantages. I seriously believe that guitars and personal firearms are incredibly similar in that "playability" is somewhat subjective and also is tied to one's entire life training and the perceived venue of usage. As for home safety... so many, many variables and probably a fire extinguisher in the kitchen is as good a home safety device as anything... for a number of reasons. EDIT: Tartan... if people had no inclination to hurt others outside overt military circumstances, why shouldn't they have even a tank if they have the place to play with it? It's probably safer than a multi-engine airplane regardless. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ok ok I have found it.. the perfect gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ok ok I have found it.. the perfect gun I'll take TWO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 OK, one thing you all seem to be in general agreement on is IF I were to go with a handgun, a revolver is a better choice than a semi-auto, at least for a person like me. I have also heard the .38 and a .357 as a possibility. Neo, you mentioned both. What makes that - I don't want to say a good choice - but worth considering? what a ridiculous notion. if this were the case, the military would issue revolvers as most recruits have never fired a gun before. revolvers are NOT for every one. and to think they are 100% reliable is nonsense. even the mighty S&W revolvers can have issues. sure, there is the "nothing to do but pull the trigger" mentality, but the same holds true for a glock- no manual safety- which is why i carry one. chamber a round, put it in a good holster and it will never fire until you put your booger hook on the bang switch. why settle for 5-7 rounds when you can have 17+1 (or even 33 +1)? plus, reloads are much quicker with semi-autos. there are some CRAZY torture tests that have been done to Glocks; google them if you're interested. ultimately i think you should check out a bunch of guns, wheel and semi alike. But if you want a semi-auto, don't buy a wheel gun because a bunch of internet commandos told you to. kinda like guitars- buy what you like and what you can afford. But make damn sure it's reliable and in a appropriate caliber. as for the .357 debate, keep in mind that a .357 fired in a dark room will not only deafen you, but it will blind you as well. I would recommend getting a .357 over a .38 sp though. I would shoot the .357 for kicks and use a good .38sp +P JHP for SD (again, Corbon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 don't buy a wheel gun because a bunch of internet commandos told you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FennRx Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 do buy a certain car because someone on a guitar forum told you to? he should do his own research. i have heard the same crap repeated so many times. I bet you think a woman should always get a revolver because it's easier to use. That slide is just too hard for the average woman to work, right? i have heard that 138348572304587 times too....at gun shops, on forums and at gun shows. and by the same guys who ALWAYS tell someone to get a snub as a first handgun. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Don't buy a Glock either because somebody else likes them - as does my brother on a professional basis. The smaller Glocks make better sense for many people than the full-size, double-stack versions too. Even if you're a pro. Depends on usage. "Internet commando" isn't exactly a nice term to use for some folks who may have a bit of experience with firearms. A lotta folks differ on opinions of firearm brands and styles, and that's what keeps more than one company in business, just as with guitars. The revolver generally is recommended to beginners not because it's that much easier to operate - although there are some advantages to some designs - but more that it may require less disassembly type of maintenance in "home use." There's no chance for a stovepipe from a too-loose grip. It's also generally, depending on specific design, easier to determine if it's loaded without even touching it, even for one not trained with a given arm. A revolver has more ammunition options than any semi-automatic that has certain recoil and bullet shape requirements to properly function. There have been a number of variations of firearms issued to various U.S. military units for specific purposes over the past 150 years or so. I s'pose some recent special issues may have been Glocks, but I'm personally not aware of it. I don't care to have 15+ rounds of ammunition in the grip of any firearm carried in concealment because of the weight if not the size. A rural sheriff friend even quit carrying his 1911 on duty and went to a baby 1911 .380 because of back problems. I have had a number of types, shapes and sizes of sidearms; never a Glock. But I've also had a lotta guitars and never an LP or similar clone. Just never cared for either, personally. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.