Guitar tools, bells and whistles

[MojoRedFoot]

I hear and read a lot of hate for Dragonforce mostly for the multitude of FX Herman and Sam use. Why? That what FX are for. Discuss......most of you have posted your pedal boards and some of you have more pedals than most music super stores have in stock. Why does DF get sh!t for it?

 

Also, I read that Kirk Hammett gets sh!t for using trem and wah so much. It's a crime when he does it but Dimebag was also a big user of trem but no one ever complained. Hendrix liked to use a wah but never a problem with him.

 

Why are guitar tools an tricks ok for some to use but not others?

[ShredAstaire]

If you like the guitarist, FX are cool...if you don't, people need a "reason" to dislike em...

[S t e v e]

I hear and read a lot of hate for Dragonforce mostly for the multitude of FX Herman and Sam use. Why? That what FX are for. Discuss......most of you have posted your pedal boards and some of you have more pedals than most music super stores have in stock. Why does DF get sh!t for it?

 

Also, I read that Kirk Hammett gets sh!t for using trem and wah so much. It's a crime when he does it but Dimebag was also a big user of trem but no one ever complained. Hendrix liked to use a wah but never a problem with him.

 

Why are guitar tools an tricks ok for some to use but not others?

 

you forgot steve vai, people hate on him because his use of effects to express himself.

 

tbh i think it's because this is the gibson forum and gibson players (most of them) prefer the purest way i.e guitar and amp, i think you'll find opinions differ over at the ibanez forum

[zigzag]

People don't like pedals?

 

I have only four: Wah, delay, phase 90, and a zoomG1. I hardly use them to practice, but when I occasionally record, I almost always use one somewhere.

 

FX should be used only as an enhancement to achieve a desired tone, as a means to an end.

[daveinspain]

I think if you know how to use your pedals well it's an art in itself. How much they are used and when is what makes it ok or not... It's like a good producer knows how much is too much, over production can ruin a tune. I think that's how the phrase "less is more" came to be...

[Artie Owl]

I think Shred has it here.

 

Eg. Someone likes the look of a leather coat, and the style but when they see someone else wearing it they think "oh he looks like a ****** with his leather coat why can't he just wear nylon like the rest of us."

[duane v]

I think what happens is most players don't know how to route their effects properly, and more times than not the effect itself doesn't sound as it should.... especially with guitarist that play dirty.

 

What adds to the pain is amps without fx-loops, which cause head-aches in trying to get your effects, (delay and reverb in particular) to sound good.... Most folks just don't have the resources, or the know how to set up a wet/dry rig to maximize the color of their effects..... I still struggle with some aspects of this application, and I have been doing wet/dry rigs since 1983.

[MojoRedFoot]

you forgot steve vai, people hate on him because his use of effects to express himself.

 

tbh i think it's because this is the gibson forum and gibson players (most of them) prefer the purest way i.e guitar and amp, i think you'll find opinions differ over at the ibanez forum

Vai too.

 

It's not here that I hear or read it. I was actually at a show to see Turisas. Some asshole in the audience looks at the gear of the opening band and sees an Ibanez guitar. He went on the explain how DF uses Ibanez and that makes Ibanez guitars suck. I just looked at him like he was the biggest loser retard in the Milky Way. DF sucks cuz they use so many FX and blah blah blah. Yeah they use FX and trem a lot but they are only doing what the equipment is capable of. I'm sure they have the money and producers to make it all sound as it should but not just that experience. Another part of me thinks that because they're stuff is on Guitar Hero, guitarist who hate GH associate DF with GH. IDK.

 

My only beef with DF is it is hard to tell songs apart. I like maybe 5 of their songs.

 

But yeah, I'm gonna go with Shred's theory on the transitive property of hate.

[ChanMan]

Li is an acquired taste. Took me a long time to learn to appreciate what he does. At first, I was just trying to listen to the notes he plays... and it reminded me too much of the Megaman video game soundtrack. Once I "backed out" and listened to what he was achieving on whole, melodically, I could get into it.

 

As far as pedals and effects go, there will always be those folks who think that if you do anything at all to a steak, you ruin it... and those that like some seasoning added.

[stein]

This can get deep.

 

One thing I can say is that as a member of the audience, when someone is playing too "wet" or using an all digital rig, it gets tiring. I get literally fatugued. I am a believer that there is something to that, the aspect of certain sounds and reproductions of sounds that have a subconcious effect on the listener.

 

At the same time, I tend to be critical when I hear the use of effects when to me it seems unnessesary. An example would be chorus and delay when playing blues, or a processed sound when playing r&b.

 

Of corse it is a matter of opinion or taste, but my critisism at times comes from the idea that perhaps the person using them or subjecting me to them has the impression that it sounds better BECAUSE there are effects, or that there must be effects to get the best sound. As if considering NOT using or needing effects is not an option the guitarist even considered.

 

Who am I to say? I am not, but often times the music made lends that impression.

 

This does not mean that I am anti-effect. I appreciate that in some music there are wacky things that are part of the art. There are some genres that call for a heavily effected sound. There are some tones that are not meant to sound in any way natural.

 

And also, as for owning and using them, making music is supposed to be fun. It can be really fun to crank up a dirt box or something for a while. Sometimes there are some things that really may not sound so good but are fun to play with.

[ne14t?]

I love em both. The thing I like the most about DF is the sound of some of the shredding reminds me of 8-bit music out of old nintendo games. I will certainly agree with the Guitar Hero comment, and people have to realize its two completely polar opposites. Guitar Hero has absolutely no relation to anything actually guitar related aside from the name its for kids and college frat parties to rock on.

[ChanMan]

This can get deep.

 

At the same time, I tend to be critical when I hear the use of effects when to me it seems unnessesary. An example would be chorus and delay when playing blues, or a processed sound when playing r&b.

 

Of corse it is a matter of opinion or taste, but my critisism at times comes from the idea that perhaps the person using them or subjecting me to them has the impression that it sounds better BECAUSE there are effects, or that there must be effects to get the best sound. As if considering NOT using or needing effects is not an option the guitarist even considered.

 

 

 

There was a special on RUSH the other night... they were talking to Alex and the producer for one of their albums. It seems the band had gotten away from their guitar oriented power trio and were leaning far more heavily on synthesizers. The producer basically said "No synths!", which tickled Alex to death.... riiiiight up until he had to give up his pedals :). The end all be all was that, once they were done, even Alex had to admit the producer was right, and it sounded better sans effects.

 

 

Very interesting perspective.

[cookieman15061]

I get literally fatugued.

 

[DAS44]

Dunno why some people get so amped up over it, if I don't like someone, then that's that. I try to avoid getting so passionate over things of that sort.

 

If they want to use 100 effects, fine by me they have every right, especially if it is used to express themself.

[EVOL!]

 

What adds to the pain is amps without fx-loops, which cause head-aches in trying to get your effects, (delay and reverb in particular) to sound good.... Most folks just don't have the resources, or the know how to set up a wet/dry rig to maximize the color of their effects..... I still struggle with some aspects of this application, and I have been doing wet/dry rigs since 1983.

 

This sounds excessive; unless you use an amp/FX/rack unit designed by NASA.

[MojoRedFoot]

Peter Frampton and Radiohead use a lot of FX but don't get the flack DF gets. That's what I'm driving at. I'm not for or against.

 

I guess it realy does have to do with people who don't like DF to begin with so they make up reasons without thinking. You don't need much of a reason to validate why you don't like a band or why you do like them. They either do or don't do it for you. Good enough. I just wish people would own up to it. Rant over.

[duane v]

This sounds excessive; unless you use an amp/FX/rack unit designed by NASA.

 

People have been running these set-ups since the 70's ... for me I cant stand the way most fx sound when they are in the signal path, especially when running dirty

 

 

Right now I'm having an issue with my line out on my Aracom at the moment

[WahKeen]

I heard early on in my playing journey someone say that people "hide" behind effects. At first that really messed with me because I was just starting to play. Effx made me sound better and that was a motivation to keep going. But like EVH said, if it sounds good it is good. I don't think it's a big deal. DF are obviously talented and they use effx to express. Now if I used effx for my singing, it would be strictly for hiding purposes, lol.

[damian]

People have been running these set-ups since the 70's ... for me I cant stand the way most fx sound when they are in the signal path, especially when running dirty

 

 

Right now I'm having an issue with my line out on my Aracom at the moment

 

Getting it right isn't easy...Those who don't understand wet / dry mix go with a DAMP mix........Doesn't work well :unsure: .....

 

I don't know this band Dragon Force, if I did I'd rip on them as well.......... ..

 

 

Good use of effects is good use of effects......Tone is all over the map.........so, dunno, except that good tone is good tone, bad tone s*cks.....

[EVOL!]

I hear and read a lot of hate for Dragonforce mostly for the multitude of FX Herman and Sam use. Why? That what FX are for. Discuss......most of you have posted your pedal boards and some of you have more pedals than most music super stores have in stock. Why does DF get sh!t for it?

 

Also, I read that Kirk Hammett gets sh!t for using trem and wah so much. It's a crime when he does it but Dimebag was also a big user of trem but no one ever complained. Hendrix liked to use a wah but never a problem with him.

 

Why are guitar tools an tricks ok for some to use but not others?

 

It all comes down to tasteful use of FX. I am still a Kirk Hammett fan, but I think his use of wah is excessive and just not musical. Do dig his whammy bar use.

[EVOL!]

People have been running these set-ups since the 70's ... for me I cant stand the way most fx sound when they are in the signal path, especially when running dirty

 

 

Well, I will qualify my statement by saying that I came of age in the early 90s when it was all about having fifty million pedals in front of you and through the front of the amp. I still work that way, just with a lot fewer pedals. I think as long as you understand true bypass, buffer pedals, and where pedals sound best in the chain, you'll be OK. Also, my amp is a no master volume thing from the mid sixties. They didn't have FX loops back them. This amp, you just turn up the volume until you find the sweet spot and start rocking out.

[WahKeen]

 

You beat me to it. But for me, eating too much ice cream and chips definitely makes me fatugued.

[duane v]

I heard early on in my playing journey someone say that people "hide" behind effects. At first that really messed with me because I was just starting to play. Effx made me sound better and that was a motivation to keep going. But like EVH said, if it sounds good it is good. I don't think it's a big deal. DF are obviously talented and they use effx to express. Now if I used effx for my singing, it would be strictly for hiding purposes, lol.

 

you should see Larry Carlton's rig.... friggin serious ..... I would dare anyone to say he hides behind his gear

[WahKeen]

you should see Larry Carlton's rig.... friggin serious ..... I would dare anyone to say he hides behind his gear

Yeah, the man's great. Touche.

[FirstMeasure]

I'm assuming that the hateful comments are coming from guitarists, since your average listener doesn't know who's making what sound.

 

It's art, and you're dealing with artists. Artists generally have very sharp opinions and comparatively unstable emotions. A lot if artists can't look past the medium, artists that work in oils have been known to hate water colors and everything painted with them. That is, from a rational art lovers point of view, completely asinine. However, from the artists point of view, he needs that hate of water colors to drive his love of oils. (Of course, there's the artist that believes any artist should be able to work in many {if not all} mediums to some degree of success. He is, of course, right )

 

It's not "Real Hate", like if "Les Paul into Marshall" met "Effects rack into Roland" they wouldn't throw blows, they'd probably write a cool song with both tones complimenting each other.