Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I hate the feel of strats, but love the sound, so I decided to spend a bit if time playing a mates MIM Strat to see how it worked out. Frankly, I'm disgusted, the saddles are made of pressed steel plate, looks really cheap. The tone on the treble side seems thin, like the pups just aren't picking up the string vibration, maybe just needs a setup. But much worse, if I let a bass note on an open string ring while I bend elsewhere with say a 13th (quite a major part if my style) the base note drops A LOT because the trem moves due to the bend. Are all strats like this? Is a USA Strat better made? Are the trems better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Farns... You've kinda hit some of my criticism of the Strat. I haven't touched one in decades, but I also don't care for the fingerboard radius or neck shape in general. I'm told the setup of pickups is a touchy, too. Some obviously make it work well. Never cared for trems, either, of any sort, for the type of thing you're talking about. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Is your friend's Strat one of the re-issues? If so then that would account for the stamped-steel saddles as they are a near-perfect re-creation of the original design. As far as the feel goes; what do you dislike? The radius? The 'board profile? The frets? The finish of the 'board? The rear profile? I'll assume your friend's is either a '50s Classic or a '60s Classic. The radius is typical of the original instruments and is considerably more curved than your R6; furthermore the fret-wire is considerably narrower and more 'crowned'. There is a USA-built Strat which has a Gibson-like 12" radius and flatter, squarer-shouldered 'jumbo'-style frets which may be more to your liking. I dislike almost all Fender maple 'boards. The rosewood 'boards I find very comfortable indeed. I'm also very used to the rear profile so can't say much about that. It will no doubt be shallower than your R6. The MIM Strat trems tend to be of the 6-screw 'floating-bridge' type. This design of trem - used on the original Strats from 1954 on - can often need very careful set-up. Depending on how tightly the screws are torqued into the body; how many of the 5 possible springs are used; and how far the spring 'claw' (in the trem-spring cavity) is screwed into the body the bridge can go from anywhere from 'very lightly sprung' - which allows for a massive pitch variation - to pretty much a 'hard-tail' effect where there is almost no movement of the bridge at all. It sounds like you would prefer a much harder set-up than the one used by your friend. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I once told Fender that I hate your guitars because I use them, and I use them because I love them. Both flavors have their problems, but a house isn't a home without a tele and a strat in it. Takes work, patience, getting around the shortcomings to get used to them. No offense, but nobody has ever taken a record back because the saddles on the guitar used to record it look cheap. Leo wanted to make a guitar that at the time, guitar players could afford. Cheap was the way. Some of the greatest sounds ever made were made using perfectly well intonated but cheap strat and tele saddles. "thin" is an excellent way to describe the back pickup. Many jack the pickups all the way up and are unsatisfied, then amazed when they play mine and find the pickups all the way DOWN, flush with the pickguard, getting better all around sounds. You have to mess with that, depending on what yer using. I have had custom shoppe texas schpeshals in mine for years, haven't felt a need to change them. Your use will vary, as will your pickup height. I also don't have middle pickups in my strats, ever. And no tone pots, but thats true for all of my giggers. Block the trem if you don't like the bend warbles, but remember that a trem is great until you use it, then it sucks. I've only recently unblocked my current strats trem, and only to cover some Jeff Beck. I'll prolly block it up front and back when I'm done. I hate them. But I'll live with it if its a great strat, and I have learned my way around it, you would too if you had one a while. My current strat is an early Highway 1, 03 I guess, probably my <mumble>th strat in my life, I don't think it is going anywhere. Yanks better than imports? That is going to be entirely up to you. Some differences, some of them significant, but still in the hands of the beholder. Whatever works I say. Good luck finding one. I know that between 92 and 2003 I probably had more than a dozen strats through our house, none of them longer than a year or two. I've had only one for 8 years now, so it must be like my first one that I had from 74 to early 80s. It is fun looking for a keeper though! My Precision and most especially my Jazz are both absolutely perfect in their uber Fedneryness. I love them dearly. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Great response rct. People can adapt to anything. I roll my eyes at the " are all ( insert model ) like this ? ". Good points about the trems. When I decided to get a strat that is one the things that bugged me a bit. So in the end I bought a G&L, and liked it so much I bought another. No tuning issues with the DF trems and they both have 12" radius boards. Makes me very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 In my experience it's hard to find a Strat that feels good to you, I got lucky and found one pretty darned soon (my strat was the 4th I played, and it blew the others out of the water). Don't give up on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I hate the feel of strats, but love the sound, so I decided to spend a bit if time playing a mates MIM Strat to see how it worked out. Frankly, I'm disgusted, the saddles are made of pressed steel plate, looks really cheap. The tone on the treble side seems thin, like the pups just aren't picking up the string vibration, maybe just needs a setup. But much worse, if I let a bass note on an open string ring while I bend elsewhere with say a 13th (quite a major part if my style) the base note drops A LOT because the trem moves due to the bend. Are all strats like this? Is a USA Strat better made? Are the trems better? iv'e never played a MIM strat, i've owned two strats in my lifetime...one a usa deluxe with lace sensor pups and my most recent usa standard and i loved both p.s check out my youtube vids for some strat action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Both flavors have their problems, but a house isn't a home without a tele and a strat in it. Takes work, patience, getting around the shortcomings to get used to them. I will argue against this point to the death. You will *never* see a Strat in my collection again. Don't care if Leo Fender comes back from the grave to oversee the building and you put a hand wound Gibson 57, P90, and P94 in it. If you like Strats and own a whole army of them, that's your business. It's a free country so have at it. I'd rather not play guitar than own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowdiddley Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I will argue against this point to the death. You will *never* see a Strat in my collection again. Don't care if Leo Fender comes back from the grave to oversee the building and you put a hand wound Gibson 57, P90, and P94 in it. If you like Strats and own a whole army of them, that's your business. It's a free country so have at it. I'd rather not play guitar than own one. Well heck! Tell us how you really feel about them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Play a Tele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Let me put this a different way. Do all Strat trems move when you bend a string, thus lowering the pitch of all the other strings? I played a parker fly deluxe and the two way trem on that didn't move about when bending strings. I realise I will get used to the feel and I now know I can buy a model without nasty pressed saddles. I had a 50 quid copy as a kid and the cast sadlles on that were better made than the ones on my mate's MIM. Those things must suck tone out. My mate has a nasty cheap amp on which you can't turn of the built in effects so he is bringing it to my place on Tuesday to try it on a real amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I will argue against this point to the death. You will *never* see a Strat in my collection again. Don't care if Leo Fender comes back from the grave to oversee the building and you put a hand wound Gibson 57, P90, and P94 in it. If you like Strats and own a whole army of them, that's your business. It's a free country so have at it. I'd rather not play guitar than own one. Dang dude! Man, I thought I had strat issues, and I've been playing them forever! Whatever happened, I'm sure Leo would apologize if he could. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Let me put this a different way. Do all Strat trems move when you bend a string, thus lowering the pitch of all the other strings? No, not if you have enough springs. But having enough springs is a trade for stiffer bar, so depends on what you want. I would suggest though, that if you are of a habit of hitting opens while bending another a strat may just cure you of that! I played a parker fly deluxe and the two way trem on that didn't move about when bending strings. I suppose they put a good one in there, may not even be dependant upon the springs, might use a combo of bars and springs to get it back, so not as...touchy I guess. I realise I will get used to the feel and I now know I can buy a model without nasty pressed saddles. I had a 50 quid copy as a kid and the cast sadlles on that were better made than the ones on my mate's MIM. Those things must suck tone out. My mate has a nasty cheap amp on which you can't turn of the built in effects so he is bringing it to my place on Tuesday to try it on a real amp. You may also find that all trems for the most part suck yer tone right down the screw holes. That has been my experience, but I don't regularly use them. Stopped using it in the 70's, it was getting tired already, so I started blocking them. A strat still sounds like only a strat can, blocked or not. I had a couple hardtails too, liked them lots but got teles if I want a non-trembleroid Fedner. Good luck. They are fun. You can seriously hate them, as evidenced here! You can love them too. I don't think Guitar World for us would be complete without them. Leo wanted 4, 5 pickups in it? Man, I'da been pissed, taking all them out. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Also I don't see what's wrong with the saddles on a Fender. Look at the saddles on your Gibson.. Unless you have a wraparound they're pretty dinky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I want to leave the open string ringing while I bend another string, I do it with pick induced harmonies too. Presumably more springs will mean a down only trem? By blocking you mean wedging a piece of wood in there? I might try a hard tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpo Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'd rather not play guitar than own one. I have a Strat Am Deluxe HSS, it's no Gibby but it's a fine instrument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I want to leave the open string ringing while I bend another string, I do it with pick induced harmonies too. Yeah man, I get you. You may find yourself not doing that trick when using a strat, and you may find yourself getting even better at it. There's a dude in yer area, might be in the phone book under 'B' for Beck, he can do pretty much anything with a junky strat trem. You live near him? Presumably more springs will mean a down only term? By blocking you Newman wedging a piece of wood in there? I might try a hard tail. No, not a down only with more springs, just stiffer. Down or down up has to do with how far off the face of the guitar the trem sits. Or, used to. They may be doing it different these days. Blocking meaning yes, I use a small piece on each side, the trem block doesn't go anywhere at all. A hardtail doesn't have the gaping hole round back full of schproingy leftover reverb springs. May not sound like much of a difference, but it really won't sound the same. Picture a really really REALLY mid-range-y Telecaster, you got a hardtail strat. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreslauer Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 i like my mexican strat better than the american deluxe i just sold. it's an HSS, with rosewood instead of maple fingerboard. however, i did put all 5 springs on the trem, to seat it firmly against the body... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I have a Strat Am Deluxe HSS, it's no Gibby but it's a fine instrument Good for you, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Dang dude! Man, I thought I had strat issues, and I've been playing them forever! Whatever happened, I'm sure Leo would apologize if he could. rct Me and Leo are cool. In fact I love a lot of Fenders including the Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Mustang, and some of the Teles (regular Tele's are too boxy for me). G&L's Tele like models are great too. Just me and Strats never got along. Hate the way the sound. Hate the way they play/feel. Hate the way they look. Pains me to see one of my biggest guitar and song writing heroes, Pete Townshend, playing them now. What happened, Pete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I like my American Stratocaster, it is a SSS and it keeps me honest because my usual power chord hacking with humbuckers does not fly with my Strat. IMO the neck on American Strats feels vastly superior with the rolled edges and larger frets. I did replace the bridge/tremolo to one like those used on PRS, all steel with nickel finish, very comfortable to plam-mute and also tightened up the trem. My main issue with Stratocasters is the Volume control being right on my knuckles then if you want to pick more in the middle the string control/pick attack is very different to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc3c46 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 What is wrong with Strats? Nothing. I love my EC Strat and it is the most versatile guitar I own - and I do own quite a few (LP Standard ,LP P90s, ES 333, Firebird V, Ric 360/12, Tele, SRV Strat,EC Strat). If it is good enough for Clapton, Buddy Guy and many others it is good enough for me. And: You can't hide behind a Strat or a Tele. You gotta know how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat-o-steve Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yep, a Strat's pickups, being single coils, will sound thinner, and more-so if you are only used to humbuckers! However, a Strat is the ONLY way to get some tones required to authentically pull off sounds from Hendrix and so forth. As for the bridge/string bending issue....that is very common to strats. And the only way to "fix" it would be to tighten the claw screws so that the bridge is pulled flush and tight to the body so it would take a lot of force to move it, like with the mechanical advantage of the trem arm. As for the bent steel saddles, I love them and I also love the overall feel and lighter weight of a Strat. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I will argue against this point to the death. You will *never* see a Strat in my collection again. Don't care if Leo Fender comes back from the grave to oversee the building and you put a hand wound Gibson 57, P90, and P94 in it. If you like Strats and own a whole army of them, that's your business. It's a free country so have at it. I'd rather not play guitar than own one. I've been waiting for this comment. I have to agree, I love almost all Fenders besides for Strats. Jazzmasters and Teles are the best IMO. Just don't like Strat pickups. Not sure I'd rather not play guitar than play a Strat, but yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I hate that top bout or horn or whatever you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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