milod Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Matt... I agree that "people are just people," but I think that the culture itself is worthy of nationalism if one cares at all for one's foundation culture. In that sense, in ways we Anglophone nations all have much to be "nationalistic" as a group, and then individually given regional histories. I'm agreeing with Martin too that frankly, I am flamboozled by the overall quality of guitars at various price points that I see nowadays compared to those available around 50 years ago. One potential problem I see is that when people move, there's an increasing unwillingness to adapt to the local culture and an increasing desire entirely to accept economic benefits of a given place while denying local culture. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 BTW... We should be rather happy that we Anglophones in our home countries can complain as much as we wish without worry of execution. Or worse. Complaining is, after all, part of our shared culture, as is being rather mocking of our collective sacred cows. Ever read Chaucer's "Miller's Tale?" m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 BTW... We should be rather happy that we Anglophones in our home countries can complain as much as we wish without worry of execution. Or worse. Complaining is, after all, part of our shared culture, as is being rather mocking of our collective sacred cows. Ever read Chaucer's "Miller's Tale?" m Hmmm, the literary reference has got me stroking my beard, Milod... But perhaps we're all waiting for the flood. Anyway, enough poking around in the dark. As an expat Englishman, I'm happy to celebrate my own culture, even (especially?) if it is narrative poetry about people sticking their arses out of windows. But to be honest I'd rather read French poetry any day, and I spend half of my working life in German. Chaucer also spent a lot of time reading stuff in foreign languages. That's where he got his stories from. So part of being British and creative has always been about absorbing other cultures. It's part of being European too. I've just been dancing to Serbian and Moldavian music at a Hungarian fish soup festival. That mix is not some post-modern multicultural piece of programming, but actually a reflection of a long tradition of different groups mixing in the border areas of Central Europe. Soon, though, I'll be back in England. I will make a beeline for Marks and Sparks, as I need some new socks (the best M&S ones seem to be made variously in Bulgaria, India and bits of the Arabian peninsula, depending on the year). I will also sink my teeth into a bar of Cadbury's Dairy Milk (really, nothing more English than Cadbury's chocolate), just to remember the taste. I don't really think it matters a jot to the product whether it's American-owned or made in Bulgaria, India or an Emirate. So long as it is knitted to the usual standard or tastes the same as it ever did. I do think it matters that the UK economy cannot compete in terms of domestic sock manufacturing, and that when it throws up a fundamentally successful chocolate company, it isn't robust enough to ward off take-over bids from abroad. The first thing means fewer jobs in the UK, and the second means a loss of profits which are essentially generated in the UK. But these are different concerns from those which would relate quality control to nationality. That said, there are some high-end items that I do associate with a given nationality. I have coveted Gibsons and bought one for two reasons: they are well-made instruments, and I fetishize the brand (I blame the headstock on my guitar teacher's late-40s Gibby acoustic). The two reasons are not really linked. Bozeman makes great guitars, but I don't believe that their fine quality is due to an innate, specifically American brilliance in luthiery. On the other hand, the Gibson brand is cool, beautiful and comes with loads of historical baggage. That baggage is specifically American, and the brand would lose something for me if it were somehow distanced from its American roots. But the quality of the guitars would not necessarily suffer if they were not made in America, or rather it would only suffer if that change meant that the guitars were no longer made by a group of gifted luthiers who know how to make Gibsons well. I readily admit that my desire to own a USA-made Gibson is ideological. My desire to own a Bozeman-made Gibson, though, comes down to unique tonality and build quality, which happen to be offered by a team based in the USA. You could move Ren Ferguson and his gang to China and the guitars would be just as good. Luthiery is not a skill which is exclusive to the Americans. Just ask the Spanish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I didn't hear a word ole Henry had to say, I was to focused on that comb over. You would think that a CEO could afford a decent rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 he said the sg was 50 years old in 61 didnt they have the small pickguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I just wanted to add that I have absolutely nothing worth adding to this thread. For once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Great video. I just wish the interview was longer! I always wondered what the guitar will be like in a 100 years. Will kids still want a classic Les Paul? Will we have technology that'll transmit music directly from our brain to the instrument, taking the physical part of playing out of the process? I think classic rock will still be alive and well, so the guitar will survive, but I doubt that classic rap will be around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 H.J. said......" I studied the industry for over a hundred years. " Yes, that's not what he meant, but it is what he said.... I'm way too aware of statements these days from doing law....Regardless, it surprised me that the 'instrument' he played was not intonated, was out of tune, and that he had not 'prepared' to demonstrate the 'instrument.' Sure, he's only human, but in MHO a CEO should be well prepared for all interviews and speaking engagements....Milo mentioned " anti Henry J bashing "....There's been none in this thread, nor should there be....Gibson Guitar Company is what it is, and I love Gibson guitars, and it is a remarkable feat that Gibson succeeds as a privately held company................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Mojorule I enjoyed reading that, LOL - I never knew that about M and S socks! Matt... I agree that "people are just people," but I think that the culture itself is worthy of nationalism if one cares at all for one's foundation culture. I think the general attitude to someone who lives in an old country like England or Germany for example, differs from someone who is Argentinian or American. The later are still very new and my impression is there is still that buzz of self confidence and pride. For example, I am always surprised by how many American flags are up when I visit the States - even in the local sports centre! It isn't that here in Blighty we don't care for the country we are living in, but for what ever reason, we just don't do that. If I have had my head shaved and wearing my England football stuff, my friends call me a white supremacist LMAO!!!!!! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I believe the guitar as a basic instrument, where you tune it yourself, has zero built in toys or effects and is not battery powered will always be the primary driving force in Rock. I agree, except I go further and think that a totally pure guitar is an acoustic guitar and that once you have bastadized it; i.e turned it into an electric guitar by adding electronics, then there are no limits or boundaries to what you should do with it. So my reasoning is bring on the innovations, as Henry is aware the Gibson market is very wide and I think he has most of us covered! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Milo You may find this interesting about the very recent use again of the St George's flag. Here is about when it started happening... http://www.telegraph...e-the-flag.html For years the other countries of the British Isles had their flags on display when supporting their team, but for a long while English people were told it was racist and nationalistic to sport the flag and were encouraged to use the Union Jack. I am pleased to say that isn't the case now... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 ...To my mind, the high quality of the budget instruments is Fender's fundemental problem........The truth is more that the much decried "modern" techniques of guitar making actually produce a very good instrument as a very reasonable price,without needing much skilled labor.... With respect, Martin, "Fender's fundemental problem", as you call it, was part of their ethic from the very start of production in '48. Part of Leo Fender's genius was the way he revolutionised the making of the guitar. From the outset the Broadcaster/Telecaster (and all that followed) was designed specifically to allow for it to be machined; assembled and set-up by a team which was largely made up of unskilled labour. In this manner he won on two counts; Firstly, production, per item, was much faster than the competition as the instruments were literally bolted together. As a comparison, the Les Pauls of the time took about two weeks to complete. Economies of scale are clear. Secondly, manufacturing instruments in this fashion meant that there was no need whatsoever to employ skilled craftsmen, therfore labour costs were kept to a minimum. I enjoy having Gibson Les Pauls. I've had an Epi Les Paul and, very fine instrument that it was, it wasn't as finely crafted as the Gibson. There is a noticeable difference in build quality. In the past I've enjoyed having had a number of USA Fenders. I've currently got a MIM Strat and, electrics aside, it is as well made as the USA equivalents I've owned. Because it's such a simple design to replicate. I, too, am all in favour of 'buying locally'. But (Leo) Fender has been the architect of the company's own 'problem'. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Matt... I was intrigued by the line in your reference: "Englishness stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists as in a living creature." In ways that's what I'm talking about in terms of a bit of "local" national pride. Churchill hit it as I've many times said, with the name of his "History of the English Speaking Peoples." And you hit it also with your comments about the English even a century ago being something of a mishmash of genetics. My comment to that is that they still are... English. I'd also suggest that England in its own way, as are France and Germany, as "new" today as they were in 1,000 or at the beginning of the "common era." As humans, we constantly reinvent ourselves. But I think there are historical factors that hold within differing language groups regardless of place and time. Granted, my family has only been in North America something over 300 years - apparently coming from England to New England - but the changes in here have been startling and yet... ... And yet the principles have remained essentially with the same ideals as in 1690. Those are of rule of law, freedom of behavior within bounds, the concept of precedent in common law, the value of the individual, the basic concept of music and of the yeoman who bent a bow to become as vital a part of the "national" persona as kings and knights... In the colonies that became the U.S., I think those English ideals fell on fertile ground and grew somewhat more than on those isles across the sea. The Scots and Scots-Irish perhaps pressed that yet more in those middle states of the eastern seaboard. But again, even in a musical sense, as in England and especially in our language, there has been a willingness to take from new strains and make it part of a comprehensive whole. I've predicted since I was an older teen that the Anglophone nations somehow would find increasing ways of cultural and perhaps even a bit of political integration. One might make a case that post WWII, that has increasingly been the case and that the Internet has speeded the process. Heavens, look at us here... As for guitars... Why did America functionally invent the archtop and electric, the dreadnaught and a set of popular music conventions that Anglophones remain seen as the worlds' collective leaders as Oz, the U.K., Canada and the U.S. continue and expand upon? In ways I think "our" music and "our" guitars have played a huge role in helping to create a global community. I also remain utterly convinced that those cultures where guitar plays a major popular music role are also those where one might most easily discuss politics on a common ground. Ah, well... the raving of an old man... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Not for nuthin' but " Nashville Tuning" requires changing the strings. If the FireBirdX can do that then I MUST have one. Have I mentioned how much I like the robot guitars? Can't wait to see the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Not for nuthin' but " Nashville Tuning" requires changing the strings. If the FireBirdX can do that then I MUST have one. Have I mentioned how much I like the robot guitars? Can't wait to see the next one. Searcy, They are awesome I have a first edition Robot. I love the way it plays and the tuning is cool too Matt... I was intrigued by the line in your reference: "Englishness stretches into the future and the past, there is something in it that persists as in a living creature." I said that?!! As for guitars... Why did America functionally invent the archtop and electric, the dreadnaught and a set of popular music conventions that Anglophones remain seen as the worlds' collective leaders as Oz, the U.K., Canada and the U.S. continue and expand upon? m It is amazing , thinking out loud could it be that the country being so new and having little historical 'baggage', meant that they could think 'out the box' more, as it didn't have a past to hold it back!!? Another thought is the maybe too the sheer volume of people and also variety of back grounds all put together made a chemistry set of good ideas I know music is very much a combined effort and I know you mention anglophone culture, but personally it is the black African musicians who I stand in awe of in popular music's evolution, as I think their inherent feel for rhythm, gave birth to the beginning of what so many people enjoy today. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Matt... But the African influence itself was influenced by the music those people heard around them, too. So you have a mixture all the way around. One might easily make a case that the English and Scots-Irish influence was every bit as strong on many African traditions here as vice versa. "We" are in ways largely one people who are constantly evolving and growing - but still retaining certain core cultural values. In music, what, for example, is Mule Skinner Blues? W.C. Handy had never heard pre-blues until he already was an accomplished "school" musician. Is "St. Louis Blues" more "black blues" than "Mule Skinner Blues" played by a southern guy who was white? Even fiddle tunes in America borrowed from "classical" as well as various folk traditions. The neat thing about "our" guitars and such is the way strings might be bent to accommodate those half-pitch slides and such. Fiddlers had been doing that for ages and yes, African traditions used the fiddle in the old days... the trumpet, trombone, clarinet, etc., etc. The guitar wasn't so popular until it was electrified, famed old acoustic pickers to the contrary. Interestingly many of the old black acoustic pickers were considered more "folk" than blues back in the '20s through the '60s. Yeah, I know I'm showing a strong leaning toward the resiliency of the Anglophone culture in terms of absorbing various influences and even genetic strains. But we also can't ignore the strong influence "we" also have had elsewhere with this sort of culture and our legal/cultural foundation. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Of course everything is a big mix, that is awesome too! Milo, I don't have the name of him to hand, but there is a musicologist who puts forward a very interesting case for the blues being something that musically existed before the people were used as slaves and made to work in America. I have no doubt the blues was s part of their race.I know from previous arguments you disagree but I'll try and find/remember the guy! I am in a Roadhouse type bar about to play my own pieces so now isn't a good time LMAO!!! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Matt... I think the bottom line for "blues" is twofold with some concepts European, some African. My point mostly is that once a number of African cultural group folks hit America, they also hit several musical cultures different from their own. The instruments ditto. In different regions of "the south," you'd also get rather different musical cultures depending on a number of factors. For one thing, the population density by modern standards or English standards was quite low prior to 1860. It wasn't high for decades after, either. So you had regional factors playing into things, and individuals played a huge role in how various sorts of music developed. Here's Gary Davis playing Stars and Stripes Forever, for example, within my "time." Blues? African? But... perhaps Sousa had some African influence in his own music from listening to this or that? Joplin? And all those are post Edison and the phonograph. I think there's little way to know exactly how and what was being done prior to Edison, but it's pretty obvious to me that "Dixieland" isn't exactly a pure "African" style of music regardless that it developed a long, long time ago. But it's not a purely European style, either. So... what is it? It's what it is, a regional combination of musical cultures. Oh, the earlier quote about Englishness was George Orwell's from the article jump you posted, not your own. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Not for nuthin' but " Nashville Tuning" requires changing the strings. If the FireBirdX can do that then I MUST have one. Have I mentioned how much I like the robot guitars? Can't wait to see the next one. Yeah I would like to see that too! I had a dedicated Nashville strung electric just for playing "Hey You" in one of the cover bands I was in. It sounded awesome to do it right. We had 3 guitar players and I played the intro versus etc... and sang. I kept another guitar slung around my back so when it came time for the solo me and one of the other guitarist did the Harmony part that is playing under the solo. It sounded awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Milo, I wrote a huge reply but am pming so everyone can get back on topic (to slagging off poor henry LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 You two make great posts. You guys need to "argue' more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Demoon... Yeah, I just wrote a long reply to Matt off line too. I think one thing we have in common is a love of music and a heaping degree of love of ethnomusicology. That latter is seldom considered nowadays as opposed to the more technical side of playing. Which "mode" is a solo in, whence came that mode, who plays in it faster or better... In one sense I personally believe it's virtually impossible to class a lot of "popular" music as coming from this or that tradition because "we" have so many and increasing inputs since roughly the 1750s or so. And yeah, 1750 is even long before my time, but it's an era when more of us were increasingly exposed to different musical styles. I'd suggest WWII was the big break to increase a loss of purely "folk" music on top of that, although it had been increasing since increasingly high quality mass produced steel wires began to replace gut on fiddles and such. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Well in a sense war helps music. After WW1, when African American troops came back to Harlem they had pride which they gained in the war help they triger the Harlem renaissance. If it wasnt for war culture might not have flourished as much as it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Demoon... Yeah, I just wrote a long reply to Matt off line too. I think one thing we have in common is a love of music and a heaping degree of love of ethnomusicology. That latter is seldom considered nowadays as opposed to the more technical side of playing. Which "mode" is a solo in, whence came that mode, who plays in it faster or better... right on Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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