Californiaman Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think this pairing does nicely. Anybody want to disagree with me and start a fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think this pairing does nicely. Anybody want to disagree with me and start a fight? Sweet...now if they just offered a whole line, with cab.s tuned to each guitar, matching colors, tuck n roll! with a HEMI!!!! and a built in ash tray, ice maker and beer tap. oh and a popcorn maker, and a hooka.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think Gibson may be reluctant to venture too much into that market because it's strategy has always been that of a perceived "premium" product, with a premium pricing. Hence it avoided the Fender strategy of offering a range of cosmetically identical Strats, Teles ect. that go from a few hundred bucks to $2,000 depending on country of origin. Instead, we get Epiphone models with a deliberately different shaped headstock. When Gibson produces the more budget models (flat top satin finish no binding) the mystique fails a bit because it become clear that what you can make a serviceable USA Gibson for a street price of, say $700-900. This starts questions in the mind of the buyer like “why does a gloss finish cost $ 400 more?” “Does it really cost $500 to add two strips of plastic binding?” A three pickup model involves another rout, and a pickup that retails for $100 – Why is it $200 more? Does the fancy inlay and extra binding strip of the custom really cost $1000? The profit is likely much better in the high end instruments than the low end ones. The illusion of exclusivity created by expensive (and very high profit) special issues, is harmed by venturing into the “workingman’s guitar” market. Good point. Pretty valid opinion, and probably why they don't make more simpler models. I'd love to know how the special and Jr reissues sell, they cost about the same as a Standard and some cost more, maybe they don't sell well enough? They are simple and with no extra bling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 And there's this too. Les Paul Jr. Pelham Blue That's what I'm talking about. That one looks amazing, and probably sounds as great as any Jr. They could charge me whatever premium price they wanted for a guitar like that (as it is, it is cheaper than a standard or a studio). Now if they sold it with a matching case it would be full of WIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think that they should give up on producing all these technically complicated guitars such as the Dark Fire,Dusk Tiger and Robot Guitar.These guitars will most likely end up being a source of trouble and frustration to their owners when the warranties have expired and they start to develope the problems that usually inevitably go wrong in products full of intricate moving parts.The people with the technical skills and parts on hand to fix these will be few and far between hence people will be compelled to send their guitars to a Gibson repair facility which no doubt will be a very expensive proposition. If Gibson were to spend the time and money that they pumped into these projects into reissuing some more of the classic old products such as the Firebird VII and the Switchmaster I believe that it would be money much better spent and more positively received by the customers. I toally agree. The Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger and Robot stuff is a waste of time and resources. On the other hand, I also think Gibson makes too many variations of the LP. We really don't need 1000 different LPs. Do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I toally agree. The Dark Fire, Dusk Tiger and Robot stuff is a waste of time and resources. On the other hand, I also think Gibson makes too many variations of the LP. We really don't need 1000 different LPs. Do we? Yeah im kind of split on this.. I really dont like the robot stuff and the Firebird X was just a joke even the way it changed a few times before they released (I know that was R&D). I much prefer the simple stuff and any options to be electrical rather than electronic and digital BUT they are a company who must look to the future as any company would and should.. I think in some ways it would be more dissapointing for them not to try as one day a guitar will come out with all these new features that works and looks like it should and will take off and I for one would love that to be a Gibson.. So I say, ok its not for everyone but at least they are trying new things which you have too to survive in the modern wolrd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Guitar players (IMHO) are a pretty conservative lot, when it comes to their "Axe." Change, that's too drastic, in form or function, isn't accepted, all that often. I mean, look at a lot of postings, here...where the call on Gibson, is to "go back," to what they do best, the "tried and true," even to '50's/'60's spec's, etc. But, I do agree, that Gibson must keep "trying," at least, to push the boundaries, if for no other reason, than to survive, in the ever more "Tech" world. Maybe, incorporate those "tech" advances, in more traditional designs...one's that are already accepted? The Robot's were a start, in that direction. The Firebird X, was much to "toy like," in looks and size, as to seem more like a video game appliance, than an actual serious guitar. Maybe, if they had put that technology, in a regular Firebird, it might have done better??? I myself, "Luddite" that I may be, prefer to play my guitar, not have it play me! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Guitar players (IMHO) are a pretty conservative lot, when it comes to their "Axe." Change, that's too drastic, in form or function, isn't accepted, all that often. I mean, look at a lot of postings, here...where the call on Gibson, is to "go back," to what the do best, the "tried and true," even to '50's/'60's spec's, etc. But, I do agree, that Gibson must keep "trying," at least, to push the boundaries, if for no other reason, than to survive, in the every more "Tech" world. Maybe, incorporate those "tech" advances, in more traditional designs...one's that are already accepted? The Robot's were a start, in that direction. The Firebird X, was much to "toy like," in looks and size, as to seem more like a video game appliance, than an actual serious guitar. Maybe, if they had put that technology, in a regular Firebird, it might have done better??? I myself, "Luddite" that I may be, prefer to play my guitar, not have it play me! CB Yeah, Jaxon mentioned earlier about maybe Gibson should do some amps.. Now THAT would be amazing. Imagine having a proper Gibson amp that is matched to your specific model of guitar. They can stick all the effects that want in those and have pedals to activate it... Now that would be something I think most of us would be interested in :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If Gibson listened to all of their customers there would be 4000 different guitars. You guys can't agree on anything! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTimeConcealmentX91 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 deleted comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Honestly. I hear people gripe about Gibson Custom Shop prices all the time. Has anyone looked here lately. http://support.fendercs.com/pricelists/2012%20FCS%20Catalog.pdf Not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Personally, I like the fact that "Gibson" is USA made, always! Rickenbacker, and other brands, are too. I have nothing against the better imports. My MIJ Epi '61 SG/Les Paul, is "Awesome!" But, I too, prefer to "buy American," as much/often, as I can afford. Sadly, that's getting more difficult (for me, anyway), to do, these days. As to Epiphone? I think they are great! Especially, at their price point. I'd love for them to "come home," to America, again...but, given their status, as Gibson's "bargain brand," I'm not at all sure, they'd sell, at the prices they'd have to command, to do that? In very limited editions, they do seem to do alright, but I can't help but wonder, if that's because they are very limited editions, recreations, of past Epi USA models, etc. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Honestly. I hear people gripe about Gibson Custom Shop prices all the time. Has anyone looked here lately. http://support.fendercs.com/pricelists/2012%20FCS%20Catalog.pdf Not cheap. True...but "my" complaint, about the Custom Shop, isn't so much the pricing, it's that they aren't really a "Custom Shop," per se', as they are a more costly version, of the plant, that makes Gibson's, they way they Used to do, in Kalamazoo, which is (for me) the way they should make ALL Gibson's, in the USA division! Leave the Custom Shop, for very limited editions, relic'd or otherwise, One of a Kind, and, for Artist endorsed guitars. Why do we need two separate versions (USA vs CS), of Gibson guitar models??? I've been on this soap box, many times before, but I really feel like all Gibson's should be made as the current CS guitars are, quality and spec wise. But, that's just me! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I concur CB. Completely. But who am I? lolz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I concur CB. Completely. But who am I? lolz. The Rolex in the Timex drawer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I laffed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Honestly. I hear people gripe about Gibson Custom Shop prices all the time. Has anyone looked here lately. http://support.fendercs.com/pricelists/2012%20FCS%20Catalog.pdf Not cheap. Yeah but those actually sound good and all that. I don't care for Fender custom shop guitars either... IMO fenders aren't supposed to have flame or quilt tops or that kind of thing, it makes them look like something they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 True...but "my" complaint, about the Custom Shop, isn't so much the pricing, it's that they aren't really a "Custom Shop," per se', as they are a more costly version, of the plant, that makes Gibson's, they way they Used to do, in Kalamazoo, which is (for me) the way they should make ALL Gibson's, in the USA division! Leave the Custom Shop, for very limited editions, relic'd or otherwise, One of a Kind, and, for Artist endorsed guitars. Why do we need two separate versions (USA vs CS), of Gibson guitar models??? This. I don't really care for custom shop models unless they are building them to my specs. I don't mind paying CS price (or what it used to be, which I understand was more expensive) to have a guitar built for me with what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Fur real. Glad to see you out in the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I don't really care for custom shop models unless they are building them to my specs. Gibson Custom Shop will make a guitar to your specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Gibson Custom Shop will make a guitar to your specs. if you have enough cash that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thunder is a wealthy Bolivian Prince. As well as a major exporter of llama love dolls. He can afford it. His family may have owned Gibson during the Norlin era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thunder is a wealthy Bolivian Prince. As well as a major exporter of llama love dolls. He can afford it. His family may have owned Gibson during the Norlin era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan_of_Sound Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 When Gibson produces the more budget models (flat top satin finish no binding) the mystique fails a bit because it become clear that what you can make a serviceable USA Gibson for a street price of, say $700-900. This starts questions in the mind of the buyer like “why does a gloss finish cost $ 400 more?” “Does it really cost $500 to add two strips of plastic binding?” A three pickup model involves another rout, and a pickup that retails for $100 – Why is it $200 more? Does the fancy inlay and extra binding strip of the custom really cost $1000? The profit is likely much better in the high end instruments than the low end ones. The illusion of exclusivity created by expensive (and very high profit) special issues, is harmed by venturing into the “workingman’s guitar” market. These are interesting points martinh. Case in point is the limited run 2011/2012 Les Paul 'Classic Custom'. Yes, its out of Gibson USA, not the Custom Shop, but it has every bit of manual labor 'bling' in it that a 'real' Les Paul Custom has, except the back body binding. ('CC' includes fretboard inlays, neck binding, body and headstock triple binding, headstock diamond inlay). The diamond and fretboard inlays are acrylic instead of MoP ($80 difference in materials... same labor?). The fretboard is baked maple instead of rosewood... we all know why... ($100-$200 difference... I'm being generous here). Yet the Classic Custom is $2k and the Custom is $4k??? In the end, I think we know (as does Gibson and Fender and PRS and....) that what we each choose is all about the emotion, and how much disposable income we have to part with for a guitar. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Bling... Technology... I think both tend to be pretty much subjective. Again, I remember when there was a degree of initial backlash against those toy guitars with electric cords in the '50s. When I showed up with an Ovation AE - one of the first AE in the 1970s - in a crowd of D28s and such, I reaaally got the "toy guitar" commentary. You can imagine the additional comment when they discovered I also had the nylon string equivalent "Country Artist." OTOH, much as I love the look of the 175, for example, I think it needs that fancy a set of inlays as much as it needs two people to hold it for playing. My bonding with various guitars has had more to do with feel and function. Also ... Maybe it's because I'm old, but I don't figure most electric guitars are "traditional" by any stretch of the word - nor in ways are the dreadnaughts and jumbos. It seems to me that guitar making has been constantly changing from the time that first there were decent steel wires for strings, then recording technology to cope with, then radio and sound movies... and finally large enough groups to go into electronic amplification of voice and various instruments. That being said, I tend to think the Gibson designs of all sorts have a tendency to be more "guitar" than the "F" brand designs that I consider more "banjo" in construction concept. <grin> Whatever. All that said... I'd love a nice cutaway "bird" or AJ AE if I could afford the Gibbie version. The 175 is my ideal electric with the SG kinda #2 followed by the 335. A robot or "X" guitar would be nice if attached to that cutaway, 175, SG or 335 but alas, I'll never be able to afford one. But if Gibson wants to hire me to drive a "check it out" truck to music stores I'd be happy to play them because I think they offer some unique advantages. At this time I'm just not doing enough stuff that would take real advantage of their capabilities. And I think that probably hits most of us "here." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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