Pegleg Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I've been watching ebay and other sites to see how many and at what price these guitars would become available for sale. For the sake of playing as opposed to collecting. I know price is very much dependent on condition but, most of the used guitars I've seen appear to in the excellent to "like new" condition. My personally imposed threshold for a decent deal is 60% of new price... none of the model A guitars sold to date on ebay approach that threshold... so opinions would be appreciated relative to the future of this model... is it just a mater of time before they'll be more plentiful at a more reasonable price? Is this model destined to be a limited production situation and hold their price point? And, a different question: Is my expectation of reasonable really not reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I think there are a select few buyers who are GASSing for the JB. It's a real beauty, but I don't think it appeals to a wide group of guitarists, so there may be a shortage in the used market now and in the future. Just my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I don't think it appeals to a wide group of guitarists, Just my guess. Pretty fair guess, Paul. Especially on a D-body. 12-frets-to the body isnt a wildly popular option in the first place, even though Recording King have a model line going. All that + Jackson's name on the thing will conspire to keep the price up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The JB model is probably too new to expect much availability on the used market. They are splendid instruments. I can't imagine ever selling mine, and most folks acquiring them are likely players, who don't easily part with instruments, especially at this time, and at the price paid to land one in the first place. I'd be interested in what the production numbers are and have been on this guitar, I get the impression they are getting harder to find, even new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotTheSilver Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I watch out for these on eBay on occasion. I think I have only ever seen one on there, and the price was high for a used guitar. I have only gotten to play a JB once, and was blown away by it! I would love to have one. I do hope they become more common on the used market, but I also have been wondering how well they are selling in the first place. Â As for 60% of new price being a good mark for a used guitar, there was a thread recently where people were talking about their expectations on used guitar prices. Seemed to be several people who said their expectation is about 55% of the new price, so I don't think you are off. Â Well, off to the guitar store right now to buy some strings. Maybe I will fondle a beauty or two while I am there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 12 fretters are NOT everyone's cup of tea.....there are a lot of things you can't do because of those missing two frets.(for example, I can't play the intro to 'Malted Milk' on a 12 fretter). A lot of dealers won't put them on the wall, because they are expensive and not "traditional" from the historic Gibson POV. I've been to several local Gibson dealers, and they will NOT stock them, but they WILL order them for you...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'd love to have one of those Model A's. Definitely my cup of Tea..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think the same thing applies to the Roy Smecks reissues as well. 12-fretters are a special kind of guitar that may not be to everyone's liking. They are great sounding guitars. I build a 12-fret Smeck-inspired Jumbo that is an amazing sounding guitar. I also make a Rosewood version with a natural top and fancy fingerboard inlays that is a replica of the Roy Smeck Radio Grande model from the 1930s. Â http://www.fox-guitars.com/Fox_Guitars_-_Jumbo-12.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegleg Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 So, my fears are confirmed... now the only question I need to answer is the premium I'll have to pay worth it? Appreciate the responses folks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57classic Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think the same thing applies to the Roy Smecks reissues as well. 12-fretters are a special kind of guitar that may not be to everyone's liking. They are great sounding guitars. I build a 12-fret Smeck-inspired Jumbo that is an amazing sounding guitar. I also make a Rosewood version with a natural top and fancy fingerboard inlays that is a replica of the Roy Smeck Radio Grande model from the 1930s.  http://www.fox-guitars.com/Fox_Guitars_-_Jumbo-12.html  That's a beautiful guitar Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbyman Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm a big fan of JB and have been since his first album, that’s right..album in 1972. I've followed JB over the years and have been to about 8 of his concerts. It's interesting to me that he actually endorsed a sig series from any company regardless of how much he made in the deal. As for the guitar, I've held and played one and they are great guitars. They are comfortable playing, very well built and have a nice BOOMING tone. The one I played needed a set up in terms of action adjustment and had a lil issue staing in tune. The JB model I played was impressive but not enough for ME to lay down the cash for that particular body style and Sig series guitar.  Any item will bring whatever someone is willing to pay on any given day and the price paid can vary more than you think. I owned a retail guitar business for 15 years before going corporate consulting and observed this interesting buyer behavior on more than one occasion. I'd watch several guys hem & haw over the retail price of a Jimmy Page Sig Series LP and the next day a guy comes in with a gold card and pays full price. Even on used gear…..I’ve had Townsend & Presley used acoustics, Slash LP…and someone will always step up to pay the asking price. I even had several Fender or even Sig Series Rickenbacker guitars including a Susanna Hoffs Ricky NIB, which I bought and sold 3 different times. Each time I got more $$ for it than I did when it was new.  Sig series will always be desirable to collectors more so than hardcore players. There are always going to be buyers out there interested in these types of guitars and it only takes ONE to pay big money. $7700 & $5800 MRSP is hefty, especially for an artist that most people don’t know and a fraction of players recognize. Ultimately, I bet you’ll see the folks that own the JB models are more JB fans than speculators on investments.  Now, to actually get to answer your question (lol)….here’s an A that sold for just over 4k on ebay recently. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=300660391317&nma=true&rt=nc&si=5ep6VB5Y%252B8odsUqyBouzLUv5D10%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc  If you can get either model below 50% of cost in clean condition, you cannot lose. My advise is to find someone in a message board that has one and see if you can get into it via trading. Always better to be the ONLY guy negotiating with a seller than to get into a competitive situation on CL or eBay. I ALWAYS made out in trades, whether it was when I had a retail business or even to this day.  Beware…wanting almost always feels better than having. lol That being said, go get yourself one of the JB acoustics and enjoy!!  Interesting exchange on the JB model here…. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218373  Jackson playing his model... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Even with the market still slow, you are going to be doing alot of sitting around if you are waiting to find a used JB at 60% off street price. As long as I have been playing, slightly used guitars of the better sort generally sell at between 25% and 40% off street price of a new one -the amount, of course, depending on condition. The fact that used JBs don't grow on trees is going to keep you in the higher asking price range. A 60% discount off the normal asking price is something you would expect with say an early 1960s SG with a repaired headstock crack. Â I am guessing it is a combination of the 12 frets, which has been pointed out ain't everybody's cup of tea, and the rather hefty price tags those JB's carry. There are alot of guitars out there in that price range to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffchris Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hey Pegleg, Â where are you from? Â There's a couple of places in the UK and europe selling them for 3k(pounds) new not sure what these retail at? I place i got my accoustic from (UK shop) is selling one second hand for 3700(pounds)? Â The new one for 3k is a model 1? The second hand one for 3.7k is a model A. Â Are these the same thing or is there more than one model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Traditions and 'norms' aside, I can't understand why more rhythm players wouldn't be interested in a 12-fret dred, should be pretty perfect for their needs really.... granted, Jackson Browne is not the 'name' that will make these fly off the shelves in droves, most folk I know have never heard of him so I would be inclined to agree this will appeal to fans more than anything. That aside I'd be more than happy to have this model of guitar minus the sig, It's not what I would gig with as I play the lead parts in a 2 man setup, but it's something I would play a lot at home. My guess is the infrequency of these on the market would keep these above the 60% threshold though and I certainly wouldn't get in to paying 75-80% for a used guitar, certainly not one in those asking prices. Â 60-65% is about as high as I would go on one of these. Investment-wise it's a smaller market, not always the best idea from a sellers perspective. Â It's a cool guitar, but I think there has to be a gateway in to this model which is a bit more affordable for players keen to move to a 12-fret guitar. The other 12-fretters available are totally different animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Gruff - the Model "A" has the Trance Audio Amulet pickup as installed by Gibson. The Model "1" is virgin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Traditions and 'norms' aside, I can't understand why more rhythm players wouldn't be interested in a 12-fret dred, should be pretty perfect for their needs really.... Â Â There ain't no money above the fifth fret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegleg Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Thanks again folks for comments/opinions... I've seen the JB YouTube stuff and there was also a nice article recently in the Fretboard Journal about him... and yeah, I am a "fan" of JB, I enjoy his music both just listening and playing several of his tunes, albeit not in the JB finger style but my personal flat pickin style. My strength, if indeed I have a strength, is my sense of rhythm, a carryover from my earlier days as a drummer I guess.... nonetheless, in spirit of sharing info, here are the model A sales I've been tracking from ebay, each one sold is in chronological order, so it's kinda going the "wrong" direction for me! Oh, like I said before, all of them appeared to be in excellent to "like new" condition, so I don't perceive the price differences to be driven by condition... Â Â Jackson Browne Gibson Model A New price $5,999 % of New $ ebay sold price $4,101 - 68.4% ebay sold price $4,350 - 72.5% ebay sold price $4,999 - 83.3% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 there was also a nice article recently in the Fretboard Journal about him... Â Thanks for the kind words about my article! Going on the road with Jackson was a special thrill. I'd been impressed with his songwriting, of course, but hanging out and passing guitars back and forth with him gave me an incredible apreciation for his guitar playing. I played through his road collection of guitars, which included his vintage Smecks adn his three signature model prototypes. Oh, and I jammed with David Lindley, too. Â Anyway, as to the thread title. That few JB signature models have turned up and that the few that have bring good prices only demonstrates that the folks who've bought the model like the guitar and that there's good demand for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 My adi/rosewood prototype JB will be back home from Bozeman on Tues. It has been missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 "I can't understand why more rhythm players wouldn't be interested in a 12-fret dred, should be pretty perfect for their needs really" Kind of depends on the riddim track. More boom than ching. Plus that low end to eq. Players make up their own rules, tho. Ive read a Smeck is Ry Cooders acoustic of choice. Big note vs the more typical glassy top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Plus the wide, wide nut makes it a real fingerpicker's guitar (though JB is known to strum his Smecks too, so certainly has lots of rhythm potential). I'd love one sig or no sig (and Trance Amulet or no Trance Amulet) - perhaps even more than PM's new J50! Of course I've never had even a glance at one in person, so a lot would depend on how that English walnut really sounds. But if I had such a beast, I suspect I'd hold onto it for that wide nut. Old classical guitar habits die hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'd love one sig or no sig (and Trance Amulet or no Trance Amulet) - perhaps even more than PM's new J50! Â I did have an eye out, but no see, no touch I'm afraid.... I'd love to get my grubby paws on one though, on paper I like this model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcf Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 you can get a new JB Model 1 from Fullers for $3600 currently. that's not too far off from a new SJ-200 if i am not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 There ain't no money above the fifth fret. Â true enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I am seriously thinking about getting the JB. But first I must sell my SJ200TV, which pains me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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