Musical noobiness.

[Buxom]

Playing and singing at the same time: Tips and advice?

 

I'm home alone, so I decided to practice playing and singing.

 

I found strange results:

 

I did two of the songs I know best, Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment and I Don't Care.

 

Those who know these songs, know that the first is high tempo, the second is pretty low.

 

I find it strange that I'm more all over the place with I Don't Care than Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment. I can't even make it halfway through I Don't Care without missing a note (or more than usual ) or focusing on one part more so than another. How can I balance what I focus on? I want to know what you guys do, like if you have a system or something that helps you.

 

Thanks

 

(posted to another forum, got no answers)

[LPguitarman]

You have to memorize the individual parts first. Guitar and lyrics. If you have to think about one of them you'll mess up on the other.

[milod]

Well...

 

Honestly it's been ages and ages since I was in that position. First, I stuck to material I knew for vocals - not current pop stuff, but stuff I knew and knew was easy for me to understand the rhythm chord progressions on guitar.

 

Then I slowed things down, but maintained a steady beat. The idea was to figure how to start chord changes at certain points in the melody - so the chord was ready for play correctly on the beat. If I missed a lick on the first chord, I was right on time with the second.

 

Breathing is part of it. That's the phrasing of the song that may or may not be right "on" the beat of a song regardless of style. So you've actually gotta breathe with a different rhythm from what you do on guitar. Humm the song so you get away from concerns of lyrics; then do guitar rhythm to get the chord changes at the proper time by starting ahead of time, them guitar rhythm with hum, then start to get into the words.

 

The idea is to get the guitar part to be as much unconscious as possible and with proper timing on chord changes; then putting the vocal melody on top - and putting words on top of that. It's kinda like baking a cake first, then putting on the frosting, then putting chocolate chips on top of the frosting. Note that if you try to put all three in the oven simultaneously, it ain't likely to come out as well.

 

Those are just some thoughts. But note that I and quite a few others here had been playing other instruments and/or singing in public well before we started playing guitar and especially playing and singing.

 

Another potential tip is not to try to do a given piece's "rhythm guitar" part if it's not simple enough to do without thinking. If you're trying to add a "lead" to a vocal, a la BB King, for example, figure you've gotta be ready for it before it's supposed to happen - then you won't be late. Being in place to step on the 10 o'clock bus at 9:56 is a lot less stressful than running at 10 and hoping you make the catch by 10:01. Some sort of timing device, metrophone to backing track, should be of help here; you've gotta position the move before you've gotta move.

 

Like I say, it's been a long time ago... but I hope the ideas help.

 

m

[hellion102792]

A good vocal coach can actually help out a lot with this. My teacher down at school taught it this way:

 

1. Figure out the time signature of the song, or at least the basic beat. A metronome can be a great help here, as you can sync it with the songs tempo and slow it down accordingly for the next steps.

 

2. If possible, get sheet music for the song you're working on. If you can't find it, double-space and print out the lyrics.

 

3. Find a recording of the song and listen to it 5-10 times through, all the while making notes on your sheet music/printout. If you have sheet music, you can see how the lyrics and song's beat correlate. Make notes and marks to point out when a word is held out, when to breath, etc.

 

If you have a lyric printout, make a mark for each beat as it relates to the lyrics. For example, if the first word of the line happens to start on the first beat of the measure, make a check mark over it. If you have an understanding of time signatures and meter/rhythm you can even break the lyrics up into separate measures.

 

4. Listen another few times, but now start tapping your foot to the songs beat. Start singing along without playing (don't have to go all out, this will help get your mind on track with syncing up the rhythm and lyrics), be sure to keep tapping your foot.

 

5. As you memorize the lyrics and how they fit, slowly incorporate the guitar. Start by playing just the basic chords with the rhythm while tapping your foot. This is where it gets tricky.

 

6. While keeping a solid beat with your foot and playing the simplified guitar part, do as milod advised and start humming along to the correct rhythm. As it starts to work itself out, incorporate lyrics where you feel comfortable. At this stage it's like building a puzzle, all the pieces will fit correctly the more you try to put it together.

 

It can be tedious, but it's a good exercise in syncing up your hand/eye/mouth/foot coordination. After a while you'll find your own twist on this and it will become almost second nature providing you actively practice. You'll eventually develop a good internal sense of rhythm which is an excellent thing for any serious or hobbyist musician to have.

[Rabs]

It is a hard trick to master... I think though that as mentioned the best way is to know both parts back to front and inside out.. You have to be able to repeat without thinking about it.. Master one first and then add the other...

 

Its just like anything.. takes practcie but is possible with time and effort.. Good luck :)

[FirstMeasure]

As has been mentioned, it's not easy. I assume you can sing and play on an individual basis. Forgetting that they don't know how to sing is the biggest mistake guitar players make when they decide to sing and play.

 

Assuming you've worked on your singing chops, marry certain lyrics to chord moves or strum patters. Then you have to trust yourself, just trust that your right hand knows what to do while you concentrate on the words or melody line. Or internalize the lyrics so you can concentrate on the guitar. Before you know it you'll find that singing and playing actually makes learning songs a lot easier.

 

Learning both parts inside and out is a good way to start, but after time and practice you'll be able to learn both parts at the same time. In fact it starts to come naturally after a bit of doing it.

 

First and foremost, "DON'T BE AFRAID TO WRECK THE TRAIN!" Your first tries will be train wrecks, that's what has to happen.

[Jeff-7]

I had quite a bit of difficulty with it when I started doing both a couple years ago. Like most things it all came together with practice. Starting with some less difficult songs that you don't really have to think too much about picking patterns or lots of chord changes helped a bit.

[RaysEpiphone]

A new-to-me song will almost alway's trip me up in both singing and playing at any given part of the song. In the end it's how much I have put into learning it. Some people can pick up on thing's very quickly and some people just need time to learn it, some song's are easy for me and some are not so easy. Being as I have been singing since I was a kid (the 1970's) singing is the part I usually get together first but not alway's.

[duane v]

Chewing gum while singing and playing has always helped me coordinate the two.

[FirstMeasure]

Chewing gum while singing and playing has always helped me coordinate the two.

I would so Choke to Death!

[duane v]

I would so Choke to Death!

 

LOL!!!

 

I've always chewed gum while playing.... It serves as a metronome for me... Especially when I'm not playing with drums

[FirstMeasure]

LOL!!!

 

I've always chewed gum while playing.... It serves as a metronome for me... Especially when I'm not playing with drums

Like tapping your foot.

[DanvillRob]

I saw some good replies here.....and it's kind of like when I read a book on growing wine grapes, every book starts by telling you how to lay out a vineyard....but I already put in the vineyard before I ever looked at a book....so the verbiage spent on that is wasted.

 

 

No one should EVER take singing advice from me.... but if you hear the song in your head as you play it....then introduce humming the words so you don't have to think about putting the words together in the right sequence, and then slowly over time, introduce some of the words as you feel comfortable.

 

I always heard the singing in my head, which is why I always wanted to play rhythm.

 

When I took up the bass, I had to relearn everything again, since it's a totally different instrument.

 

Now, I don't feel comfortable singing without a guitar/piano.

 

[surfpup]

* Some rhythms are much harder to play while singing than others, focus on the easier ones to start with

 

* If you have an acoustic, try playing while singing on that - it's easier to hear yourself sing

 

* It takes time - stick with it and it will happen eventually

[TommyK]

Are you trying to play melody while singing melody? or are you just strumming the appropriate chords?

 

 

I've found that learning to sing the song a Capella, then figuring out the chords while I sing is the way for me to go.

[rct]

I used to be up at 5am or so and would use an hour to walk around the house playing the guitar. Walk around playing a different set each day, just play the guitar and walk around, don't stop except to hit the coffee. When you can not disturb others, walk around playing the songs from your sets and recite poetry, the lines of a movie you know, anything that is speaking from memory, something you know well. When you can walk around and play the guitar and recite things from memory, it'll be easier to sing while the other two things are happening. Practice practice practice.

 

rct

[Buxom]

I used to be up at 5am or so and would use an hour to walk around the house playing the guitar. Walk around playing a different set each day, just play the guitar and walk around, don't stop except to hit the coffee. When you can not disturb others, walk around playing the songs from your sets and recite poetry, the lines of a movie you know, anything that is speaking from memory, something you know well. When you can walk around and play the guitar and recite things from memory, it'll be easier to sing while the other two things are happening. Practice practice practice.

 

rct

 

I wish I could do that. If I lived alone, hell yes, I'd do it. And in nothing but a robe and tubesocks!

 

anyways, sorry for my lack of responses guys! Couldn't find the thread the past couple days, or even much time to look.

 

But I'm glad for the advice. It really makes me feel welcome into this online community more than ever.