Nitro versus other finishes

[surfpup]

I swear I remember reading in a Hendrix bio that Jimi used to purposely knick up his Strats to warm up the tone. Anyone else encounter this tidbit?

[Ryan H]

I swear I remember reading in a Hendrix bio that Jimi used to purposely knick up his Strats to warm up the tone. Anyone else encounter this tidbit?

 

Almost as far fetched as Eric Johnson's theory that the tightness of the screws holding his pedals together influence the tone...

[Sinner 13]

Almost as far fetched as Eric Johnson's theory that the tightness of the screws holding his pedals together influence the tone...

 

That's just Weird.

 

[Searcy]

I have said and believe with all my heart that Eric J says some of those things just to see how many people will believe it. Like Eddie did all those years ago spinning all that BS about the Brown Sound Marshalls.

[FirstMeasure]

That's the first time I've head that about pedal screws. I know he said Batteries make a tonal difference (which is at least an arguable point). Until I see the actual quote from Johnson about pedal screws I'm gonna say that's an Urban Legend.

[Searcy]

That's the first time I've head that about pedal screws. I know he said Batteries make a tonal difference (which is at least an arguable point). Until I see the actual quote from Johnson about pedal screws I'm gonna say that's an Urban Legend.

 

From the May 2000 issue of GP magazine, quoting Eric Johnson... "Fuzz Faces are really temperamental, so I use a rubber band to hold the pedal together because the screw that secures the bottom plate affects the sound."

[CowboyBillyBob1]

I do not agree with those that say nitro has no effect on solid body tone. The main thing is that the aging of a piece of wood and how it cures does effect it's tone. The main selling point of nitro, for me at least, is that it is somwehat porus and lets the wood breath and cure over time. That will effect it's tone. I do agree that out of the box there is no dicernable difference between poly and nitro except the poly seals the wood so tight it will never age or cure the way a nirto finish will.

If you take care of your instument there is no downside to nitro. It will last forever.

Can you imagine a quality violin being finished in a poly finish?? Mr. Stadavari would be turning over in his grave had someone did that to one of his instuments.

[Searcy]

Why Nitro finishes suck

[RowdyMoon]

Has anybody considered the fact that in a factory environment Nitrocellulose lacquer is the most practical finish in terms of apllication ( fast dry, good recoat) best for solid colors,cost and longevity.....same finish is on furniture....remember those nice white little rings from your coffee or can of beer..moisture can get in albeit hard to do. Oils such as tung, teak etc etc may be a nice finish for something that's going to sit on a shelf but for a well traveled guitar it wouldn't hold up very well. Just how long do we want or expect the clear to last in an environment of constant use...any clear coat be it nitro, poly,etc etc will start to break down after a certain period of time....seen some pretty old guitars that still look pretty good considering they are 40 plus years old.........and colors? any oil based product will have a slight amber tone to it, just the nature of the beast, acrylic (waterbourne) will not amber....but keep in mind red pigments will fade the fastest .....honestly tho, when I used to do furniture refinishing and finishing (meaning new stuff) lacquer was the easiest and quickest way to do it...

[zigzag]

DuPont Nitrocellulose

 

Having worked with nitrocellulose for around 35 years, I feel I'm qualified to discuss it. Resins which are dissolved, like nitrocellulose, naturally form better dried films that are more conducive to blocking the transmission of water vapor, compared to their hard, emulsified, resinous, counterparts (which are only available in water reducible formulations). This trait is called moisture vapor transmission resistance (MVTR). However, being very hard compared to high solids or solvent soluble polyester or polyurethane (even cross-linked films), their film forming properties are far worse, and their ability to reduce MVTR properties (especially after checking, or microscopic cracking, occurs) is less. Additionally, since NC lacquer films are thinner than their resinous counterparts, their ability to block moisture vapor or the release of moisture from the wood, and protect wood, is far less.

 

Those who say that NC seals wood pores better than their resinous counterparts are simply uninformed.

[Twiz]

Up until a few months ago, I only had experience with nitro finishes as all my guitars were Gibsons and an Epiphone. I do like the toughness of the urethane on my Telecaster though. I still like nitrocellulose lacquer the most.

[CowboyBillyBob1]

I would like to ask a question by those who obviously know more about this than I.

 

When I said that nitro lets the wood breathe I did not mean that a dead tree breathes what I thought was that the thin coat of nitro is more porus and would let the air into the wood better than a poly finish which is usually thicker. Over time the wood would cure easier than a poly finish can allow.

 

I am not talking about the feel of one over another because that is subjective.

 

Am I totally off base here?

[stein]

I would like to ask a question by those who obviously know more about this than I.

 

When I said that nitro lets the wood breathe I did not mean that a dead tree breathes what I thought was that the thin coat of nitro is more porus and would let the air into the wood better than a poly finish which is usually thicker. Over time the wood would cure easier than a poly finish can allow.

 

I am not talking about the feel of one over another because that is subjective.

 

Am I totally off base here?

Kind of.

 

The point is, NONE of the finishes used on guitars are porous at all.

 

The idea of a guitars' wood "breathing" as a result of the nitro finish came about from old beat-up or wore out guitars that had finish missing. The finish missing the result of a deteriorated nitro finish, which nitro DOES do after many years.

 

Somehow, that has been twisted to mean that "nitro breaths".

 

There is a lot of BS in the guitar world.

[CowboyBillyBob1]

I just read this on the Gibson Website :

 

Process

The Les Paul Studio Deluxe ’60s is finished by hand in a process that demands several coats and many hours. Unlike a lot of other manufacturers, who settle for a polyurethane finish, Gibson opts for a nitrocellulose finish that will encourage the natural vibration of the instrument for a purer tone. In addition, a nitro finish is very porous and actually gets thinner over time. That way your guitar’s wood can breathe and age beautifully.

[Searcy]

That's called Marketing Bullshit.

[zigzag]

Think of cross-linked lacquers like plexiglass doors and NC lacquer like a screen door. That's the best comparison I can think of.

[badbluesplayer]

Nitro sounds more exciting. I'll go with that.

 

Seriously, I don't care. I like nitro on my nitro's and I like the poly on my poly's. Whatever they make 'em with is how I roll.

[MrNylon]

Nitro sounds more exciting. I'll go with that.

 

Seriously, I don't care. I like nitro on my nitro's and I like the poly on my poly's. Whatever they make 'em with is how I roll.

 

 

I agree with you. However it's made up is fine with me.

[stein]

Think of cross-linked lacquers like plexiglass doors and NC lacquer like a screen door. That's the best comparison I can think of.

I tend to think of most poly's as plastic and hard nitro's as glass.

 

I think the dried/cured properties (hardness, flexability, thickness, etc.) and what the FINISH sounds like as what is added or subtracted from the sound of the wood.

[Sinner 13]

That's called Marketing Bullshit.

 

I read your article, and agree wholeheartedly.

here is my nickles worth of input.

I too like the feel of the nitro finishes,and nothing says Gibson to me more than opening up a case on an older model that's well played, and getting a whiff of the ol' nitro "Stank"

the pro's of repair-ability make it superior in my mind as well.

However, my finish of choice would be French polish, not as soft as Nitro, looks beautiful in nice grained woods,although very lacking in use for solid color finishes, as far as I know, I could be wrong.

They all have their pros and cons, I however AM NOT a fan of poly at all, I find it sterile, and cold.

Again just MHO.

[zigzag]

Nitrocellulose is very hard, dries very quickly, and it's odorless unless plasticized or modified with another resin.

[Searcy]

And almost all of it is these days to avoid crazing. I have finished a few guitars and basses in nitro and it stank to hell.

[CowboyBillyBob1]

That's called Marketing Bullshit.

I am reading a book published by Martin Guitars (who I am a big fan of) and they say how in the early days they switched from French Polish to lacquer because of cost and the fact that the lacquer was thin and showed the wood grain through it.

 

I totally respect their honesty as to how they build their guitars and why changes were made to increase production and cut costs. Gibson on the other hand are proven liars. Just ask the DOJ. I recently bought a Gibson Midtown Standars and some Martin Authorized dealers say it's a rosewood neck and others say Richlight. Gibson it says sites both. You just don'y know what to believe when Gibson states it's stats.

[MrNylon]

At least no one said a can of Krylon spray paint is the way to go.

[zigzag]

And almost all of it is these days to avoid crazing. I have finished a few guitars and basses in nitro and it stank to hell.

 

More than likely, what you were smelling, if it stank to hell, was the solvent mixture to dissolve the nitro, unless the odor lingered for days. Then it could have likely been a modifying resin. Most plasticizers have only a faint odor, and they will eventually migrate out of the dried NC coating. I suspect most NC lacquers for wood coatings are modified with a resin.