Izzy Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So I was learning Jhonny B Goode and boy, do I sound NOT rock at all. No! I am not diluted enough to think I could play like Chuck, or even his cheap immitators, but damn it I wanted it to sound a little bit like old rock. I sound country! Let me explain, I hate picks. I use them to strum punk, when I am guaranteed not to have to play one single string at a time, but if I'll have to be precise, I pick with my fingers and I strum with them too. I sound so not rock! I think some of the trouble is timing too. Meh, there aer worse things, lol. Have you ever tried a song, done it with proper time and decent tone, then heard yourself and gone, "@#$$#%^%@$"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I feel like that everyday, but i keep going and hoping one day i'll be truly satisfied with my playing. But knowing me, i wont be. It's okay to lie to your self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Hmm, let's see here. YYEESSSSSS! It's a growing process though. I can't listen to music from my youth and not cringe. Here's me playing when I was around 15-16 years old (La Villa and You Really Got Me). Just terrible in my opinion. But it gets better for two reasons: 1) you do get better, 2) when you get older you just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Have you ever tried a song, done it with proper time and decent tone, then heard yourself and gone, "@#$$#%^%@$"? Ummm...yea...that's pretty much the story of my life right there. But seriously, one of the things I have always found odd, is that when concentrating on truly making something sound GOOD, the personality in my playing is usually not the personality I think of when I think of myself. So, I guess in a sense, making something sound like "me" is a different thing than making something sound like "my playing". This could get deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 @ rocketman You put lots of energy into "you got me". Eager is the word. Thanks for sharing! @ dem00n Do you feel like its a matter of getting better at something or a matter of realizing that you have a certain style and it can't be manipulated because "this is just how you strum your E chord"? Granted, its not like voice issues. Yu can get lessons but you can't change your voice. We can all play a single guitar and pass her around and we will all make her sound different even if its the same basic song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 DIG, I mean DIG that version of "You really got me". Energy, style, 'verocity'....a little wild, or actually, a WILD sound while not being...I don't know..the other thing. That fits with Punk, Rock and Roll, Metal, any way you lean, that version kills. So..what part about it that's YOU don't you like? And besides, when looking back at youth, there's that automatic disclaimer. Don't see why you wouldn't wear that version as a badge and be proud of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 @ rocketman You put lots of energy into "you got me". Eager is the word. Thanks for sharing! @ dem00n Do you feel like its a matter of getting better at something or a matter of realizing that you have a certain style and it can't be manipulated because "this is just how you strum your E chord"? Granted, its not like voice issues. Yu can get lessons but you can't change your voice. We can all play a single guitar and pass her around and we will all make her sound different even if its the same basic song. I think its a matter at getting better at playing, every guitar player is different. Its very hard to copy a other players guitar style in some cases not just because hes faster or using more complex chords and such, but more so that he had difference ways of approaching said chords and strumming...etc. Nothing can be truly manipulated, but at some cases you can get it so close that no one else will notice the difference cept you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingPongBob Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Have you ever tried a song, done it with proper time and decent tone, then heard yourself and gone, "@#$$#%^%@$"? Yes after hearing myself recorded on my new Tascam DP-03, it tells me I really have a long way to go to where I was 25 years ago. Instead of attacking the guitar like I used to, it seems like I'm just dittiling away at it. I've got a lot of work ahead of me. @Rocketman: Jaysess H Ceeeryst. What are you, nuts? I can't imagine what you're playing like now if you think that was terrible. What stein said and more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Have you ever tried a song, done it with proper time and decent tone, then heard yourself and gone, "@#$$#%^%@$"? Yes,,, of course,,, is that bad??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 There is also a "sonic" to if you sound rock or what-ever. As in does it "sound" like the recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 There is also a "sonic" to if you sound rock or what-ever. As in does it "sound" like the recording? What did you mean by sonic? The recording is in rock style and there are other vesions that sound rock though they aren't the same as the original. What I mean by "rock" is rock n roll. You can twang something up and make it sound country or, if you hit it right and give it the right attitude, you can make something rock n roll. I usually sound folky. Only my "punk" sounds remotely like rock n roll. I guess I just need practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The one thing that really bugs me about my playing is my inability to grasp fingerpicking.After playing guitar for almost 50 years I still can't get the fingers on my right hand to do any type of fingerpicking.I have tried and tried and advanced fingerpickers have tried to show me time and time again yet my mitts refuse to cooperate. I can knock off a reasonable facsimile of a lot of Hendrix songs yet I can't absorb the technique used for fingerpicking-that really gets my goat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 It's easy to get down on ourselves when we start singing. When we first hear ourselves sing, we're automatically at a disadvantage because we're comparing our own voices to sounds we like. We have a preconceived idea of what our favorite song should sound like, of how we need to sound/play. Even if the original version was sung by someone who really is a poor singer, we don't hear it that way because we like the sound of the song. If we don't sound similar, we think we can't sing. ....As far as sounding like a particular genre of music, I think it's more important to sound like yourself. Being who you are is more important than trying to be like someone else. Music critics have catagorized Cash as country, folk, R & R, rock-a-billy while others said he sang "Johnny Cash Music." Maybe sounding like R & R or blues, etc. is not who we are. Maybe we sound more like a folksinger or country instead. Maybe our mind and body is geared to that beat/style or feel more than another. I understand the comment about not sounding like Berry and his style of music, but it's okay if we don't come-across like that. Maybe it's better for us to do the song in a folksy or more laid-back manner. I play/sing the song "Runaway" at a lot of my gigs. I don't sound anything like Del Shannon. Forget the falsetto part of the song...lol...and I sing it a bit slower than he did. It's kind of my interpretation of the song. Shannon sang it with the angst and worry of a young man. I sing it from the perspective of an older dude... I don't sound like Cash or Lightfoot either, but I do quite-a-bit of their music in my own way. Ever heard James Taylor do "Handyman"? It's almost as gentle as elevator music. Very different than the R & R version, and you don't have to be Taylor to make it work.......... I figure if I enjoy what I'm doing that some of the people listening will kind of enjoy it too. I'm not trying to be a Dylan or Cash . I can't stand Elvis and Cash imitators. I know some of them are very talented, but I figure "go make money on your own name." Everywhere you look today there's a Cash tribute band. Can't stand that stuff........ Anyway, I'm just being who I am. I think that's my best bet. Just be who I am. Do the songs my own way. Besides, if I tried to sound like one of my musical heroes, I'd be in a constant state of disappointment. Certainly try to be the best you can, but be yourself while you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy60 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 i don't really try or expect to sound like other players, so it really doesn't bother me when i play covers. i'm cool with being me and having my own style/sound. besides, it's fun superimposing my playing on another person's composition/work. really, what's the point of covering a song if it sounds exactly like the original? i like personality. sure beats being an ape.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 ... Have you ever tried a song, done it with proper time and decent tone, then heard yourself and gone, "@#$$#%^%@$"? Hello Izzy! Proper timing - that's my main weakness. I never get it right. It really hurts me: wanting to play great but not having the talent to be a musician. Decent tone - at least one factor I am getting more and more satisfied with. I figured out at the beginning that I am not going to be a guitar god ever, but at least I can please myself with sounding good - as far as sound quality is concerned. That's why I went with Gibsons... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 If you want to try to capture a little of Chucks magic you will need a punchy tone. That's harder to accomplish with just your fingers but not impossible. Timing is important, in that you want to anticipate the beat. Getting the concept behind playing ahead of the beat, on the beat, and behind the beat is crucial to timing. I suck at trying to explain it, but since I couldn't find a decent article on it, here goes. The beat takes time. It's only milliseconds, but a delay pedal will tell us, a couple milliseconds can make a big difference. When you play "On the Beat" you sounding your strings in the dead center of those few milliseconds. "Ahead of the Beat" sounds at the very beginning of those milliseconds, and "Behind the Beat" sounds at the end of those milliseconds. Rock likes to be played ahead of the beat or on the beat. Get behind the beat and it starts to sound like Country or blues. Of course it gets more nuanced than that, but those are good general guidelines. {edit} I forgot. Chuck doesn't really let his notes ring much during his Maybellene type stuff. So try to leave spaces between chord strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGEUFq7jYGI A pearl of wisdom if you will... Taking the example of the genius Johnny Winter Who uses a thumbpick at all times... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Chuck Berry had fast and hard pick attack. Johnny B Goode has a kind of 123-123-123-123-1234 feel to it rather then just a 1234 x 4 thing. Whatever that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 It's easy to get down on ourselves when we start singing. When we first hear ourselves sing, we're automatically at a disadvantage because we're comparing our own voices to sounds we like. We have a preconceived idea of what our favorite song should sound like, of how we need to sound/play. Even if the original version was sung by someone who really is a poor singer, we don't hear it that way because we like the sound of the song. If we don't sound similar, we think we can't sing. ....As far as sounding like a particular genre of music, I think it's more important to sound like yourself. Being who you are is more important than trying to be like someone else. Music critics have catagorized Cash as country, folk, R & R, rock-a-billy while others said he sang "Johnny Cash Music." Maybe sounding like R & R or blues, etc. is not who we are. Maybe we sound more like a folksinger or country instead. Maybe our mind and body is geared to that beat/style or feel more than another. I understand the comment about not sounding like Berry and his style of music, but it's okay if we don't come-across like that. Maybe it's better for us to do the song in a folksy or more laid-back manner. I play/sing the song "Runaway" at a lot of my gigs. I don't sound anything like Del Shannon. Forget the falsetto part of the song...lol...and I sing it a bit slower than he did. It's kind of my interpretation of the song. Shannon sang it with the angst and worry of a young man. I sing it from the perspective of an older dude... I don't sound like Cash or Lightfoot either, but I do quite-a-bit of their music in my own way. Ever heard James Taylor do "Handyman"? It's almost as gentle as elevator music. Very different than the R & R version, and you don't have to be Taylor to make it work.......... I figure if I enjoy what I'm doing that some of the people listening will kind of enjoy it too. I'm not trying to be a Dylan or Cash . I can't stand Elvis and Cash imitators. I know some of them are very talented, but I figure "go make money on your own name." Everywhere you look today there's a Cash tribute band. Can't stand that stuff........ Anyway, I'm just being who I am. I think that's my best bet. Just be who I am. Do the songs my own way. Besides, if I tried to sound like one of my musical heroes, I'd be in a constant state of disappointment. Certainly try to be the best you can, but be yourself while you do it. I'm with you, MP..... while many songs have a 'hook', and that hook needs to be part of the song..... nothing I do sounds like anyone else doing it. As you say, I HATE my singing voice, (not too thrilled with my speaking voice either....I sound like Andy Devine on steroids), but that won't stop me from playing and singing. I've always loved Marty Robbins' "Devil Woman", but simply couldn't even attempt the falsetto. I'm satisfied with my version, (but it STILL sounds like me). BTW..... I worked with Chuck Berry back in the 60's in San Francisco. He was so laid back as a person you'd be hard-pressed to rattle him...but on stage..... even into his later years, he was a dynamo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f6mzIuP44A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Izzy... Try thumb and index finger in a clamping motion for those Chuck Berry double stops. It's pretty easy to get the timing that way. As for other stuff... I guess it comes back in a way to the longtime concept of "version" versus "cover" of any kind of music. When I was a kid I felt horrible that I didn't sound like this or that singer. Then at a certain point I felt even worse that I didn't sound like Ian Tyson of Ian and Sylvia and now cowboy music fame. Even told him that one before he overdid the voice and damaged it severely. Inside we're all ourselves. To an extent we can copy guitar chops and some of us are gifted sufficiently that we can vary our voices. We can't vary who we are. I found it interesting the differences in arrangements of all sorts of tunes through the years. Back in my folkie days I had girlfriends at various times who did the same music. The example that rings in my ears nearly 50 years later is "Dink's Song" recorded by Lomax more than a century ago. One girl sang it almost as a folk-rock dance tune with lusty voice and strumming; the other as a quiet fingerpicked lament as though humming while awaiting coffee to boil on a wood-fired cookstove. Don't ask which I preferred - either girl or arrangement - because both bring fond memories of fellow college-age teens looking inside their heads and hearts to find who they really were, and how they might best struggle internally to find a place in life. We were lucky, too, in that the drug culture hadn't quite yet hit. Do I know their current status? One didn't make it to the summer of '65 thanks to a car wreck. The other disappeared from view in early summer of '64 with a decision not to return to school. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingBlues Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I hate picks. I use them to strum punk, when I am guaranteed not to have to play one single string at a time, but if I'll have to be precise, I pick with my fingers and I strum with them too. I sound so not rock! I have reached a stage I only use a pick if I've got cuts to the fingers or badly broken nail. It doesn't help in getting a rock sound using the fingers though. I spent a long time trying to sound like other players and play their songs. Never got the hang of it. Trying to play otehr players solos just never worked - if I couldn't "get" the logic of what they were doing it was no use - and I never could "get" that logic. You've got to get in their head and get all those subtle nuances too or it doesn't work - and when that happens it just sounds like a pale imitation, particularly when the style doesn't siut you. I'm now in my late 50s - a few years ago I started to develop and sound like myself. Managed to hear notes in my head as I was playing and reproduce them on the fretboard. Hell - it limits what I can play just playing what come sinto my head, but I'm happy to have a bit of "me" that can be heard in my playing. So it won't appeal to many, but I've no desire to gig / perform so that's OK. One of the best blues players I've encountered on-line, who does gig, used to model himself on SRV. Till his father commented on a gig he did - "that's very good, just like Stevie Ray - but when are you going to start to sound like yourdelf". Now he does sound like himself and sounds so much better for it - and I think he gets more from it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have reached a stage I only use a pick if I've got cuts to the fingers or badly broken nail. It doesn't help in getting a rock sound using the fingers though. I spent a long time trying to sound like other players and play their songs. Never got the hang of it. Trying to play otehr players solos just never worked - if I couldn't "get" the logic of what they were doing it was no use - and I never could "get" that logic. You've got to get in their head and get all those subtle nuances too or it doesn't work - and when that happens it just sounds like a pale imitation, particularly when the style doesn't siut you. I'm now in my late 50s - a few years ago I started to develop and sound like myself. Managed to hear notes in my head as I was playing and reproduce them on the fretboard. Hell - it limits what I can play just playing what come sinto my head, but I'm happy to have a bit of "me" that can be heard in my playing. So it won't appeal to many, but I've no desire to gig / perform so that's OK. One of the best blues players I've encountered on-line, who does gig, used to model himself on SRV. Till his father commented on a gig he did - "that's very good, just like Stevie Ray - but when are you going to start to sound like yourdelf". Now he does sound like himself and sounds so much better for it - and I think he gets more from it too. I am with you 110% on this one brother. I couldn't agree more. I did the same thing many years ago and as far as I'm concerned it was one of the single best things I did for my playing. (except for the pick thing. I play predominantly with a pick. I finger pick a little but not much). I am only in it for my personal entertainment. I don't have to make a living at this. I do it for fun. So I have no reason to sound like a juke box. I don't care either if anyone likes what I do. My jamming buddies do and that's all I need to hear. Be yourself Izzy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trelf Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'm always really critical of my own playing - I always think it's not good enough if I'm honest. Upside - it leaves me plenty of room for improvement :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Chuck Berry had fast and hard pick attack. Johnny B Goode has a kind of 123-123-123-123-1234 feel to it rather then just a 1234 x 4 thing. Whatever that means. Those are called triplets. The breaking of a single beat into threes (as opposed to 2 or 4). Sextuplets, breaking a single beat into sixes, quintuplet into five and so on. Triplets are imperative to Blues, Rock, country... what am I saying? Triplets are important...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Izzy... Try thumb and index finger in a clamping motion for those Chuck Berry double stops. It's pretty easy to get the timing that way. As for other stuff... I guess it comes back in a way to the longtime concept of "version" versus "cover" of any kind of music. When I was a kid I felt horrible that I didn't sound like this or that singer. Then at a certain point I felt even worse that I didn't sound like Ian Tyson of Ian and Sylvia and now cowboy music fame. Even told him that one before he overdid the voice and damaged it severely. Inside we're all ourselves. To an extent we can copy guitar chops and some of us are gifted sufficiently that we can vary our voices. We can't vary who we are. I found it interesting the differences in arrangements of all sorts of tunes through the years. Back in my folkie days I had girlfriends at various times who did the same music. The example that rings in my ears nearly 50 years later is "Dink's Song" recorded by Lomax more than a century ago. One girl sang it almost as a folk-rock dance tune with lusty voice and strumming; the other as a quiet fingerpicked lament as though humming while awaiting coffee to boil on a wood-fired cookstove. Don't ask which I preferred - either girl or arrangement - because both bring fond memories of fellow college-age teens looking inside their heads and hearts to find who they really were, and how they might best struggle internally to find a place in life. We were lucky, too, in that the drug culture hadn't quite yet hit. Do I know their current status? One didn't make it to the summer of '65 thanks to a car wreck. The other disappeared from view in early summer of '64 with a decision not to return to school. m Happy New Year Milo... The way I look at Cover vs. Version is all about intent and audience perception (the entertainer in me will never let me ignore the audience). Say you're an actor adept at doing voices. If you're hired to do Daffy Ducks voice you have to nail it or expect a negative reaction from Daffy Duck fans. Because there are legions of Daffy Duck fans there's little room for improvisation for that actor. However, if you're asked to do The Professors voice from Felix the Cat you have room to work yourself into the character. There's not that many Professor fans filled with preconceptions. Some songs are Daffy Duck, and the audience will not take a reformed version lightly. Maybellene and Johnny B. Goode would fall into the Daffy Duck category. (in my opinion, of course. Which I still think is one of the most redundant phrases used on internet forums. Of course it's my opinion! Do we really have to put a warning label on every post we make containing an opinion? But I digress..) "Promised Land" or "Sweet Little Rock and Roller" would be more easily accepted by audiences and Chuck fans. They're more like the lesser cartoon characters who's voices are not part of our collective conscience (or pop culture). However, that's not to say that covering or altering a known standard is somehow taboo or "off limits". When The Clash rendered "I Fought The Law" in a decidedly Punk fashion it was not well met by the fans of Bobby Fuller and "The Oldies" (to use a very 70's term for early Rock and Roll). But it sure resonated with Punk and Clash fans. So there in lies the intent of the artist. Does the artist want to break entertainment ground or entertain the existing audience? Make no bones about it, Breaking Ground is met with more resistance than acceptance. Steve Martin was booed off of a lot of stages before his arrow through the head was accepted by the late night crowd that showcased Henny Youngman and Don Rickles. Any artist who wishes to Change The Game is in for a battle slightly more uphill than the battle a typical artist might be in for. Not stated to scare anyone away from trying, just spelling out the difference in ballgames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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