Hogeye Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Just a short note to let all of Ren's friends know that he is still working for Fender. The Guild plant has been closed for very sad reasons. The guitars were the best ever and selling just fine but the EPA had issues with them using Nitro in a populated area. Guild could not or did not want to make the costly upgrades and closed the plant. They will relocate. I wish it would be to Montana but it will probably be to a country that is more business friendly. I wish the workers all the best and hope they will all be just fine. It's sad to know that such a historic and beautiful place will be empty. Maybe Henry could buy it and turn it into a custom shop. That would be pretty cool. Ren will be going to the "Gibson Homecoming" and he is looking forward to seeing all his friends. We will see you all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 that seems like a pretty lame reason for shutting down operations.. no doubt a bean counters move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Why would Henry want to put a Custom Shop there? You just said the reason for the shutdown was....the EPA don,t want "no stinkin' nitro" sprayed around there .... :unsure:. What in the heck could Henry 'do different'.....besides install some expensive air scrubbing/filter system and pay those bastards fines and penalties....?? Yeah, kidblast, indeed a bean counter move.....if you are fighting extortion of a Federal Bureaucracy....Don,t matter who you are.....and the numbers ain,t jiving.....your gonna move. That is just solid business sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Thanks for the update Hogeye . that's a pretty lame reason !! but I hope guild suvives all of the BS and good to know Ren is still going to be working JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I was just talking with a luthier who said all guitar makers would be better serving their guitars if they cut down on all the crap they spray on them. He'd recently rebuilt a J-45 and shellacked the top and said it sounded 100x better than a factory guitar just for that move alone. All I know I get tired of sticking to my guitars. I'd love to see them less glopped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, and now New Hartford. Good intentions, but it feels like Fender is snakebit with Guild. Somehow, I hope they pull it all together. I've always had a soft spot for Guild guitars, and wish I had a few of them back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The best thing would be for Fender to sell Guild, and keep it in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks for the update Hogeye . that's a pretty lame reason !! but I hope guild suvives all of the BS and good to know Ren is still going to be working JC Please explain to me in detail WHY that is a lame reason....and I will shut up....Please explain it to me JuanCarlosValdez.....Please! I really want to know why you think that is lame? Seriously! Keep it simple for my mind. I REALLY want to understand your reasoning....seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Please explain to me in detail WHY that is a lame reason....and I will shut up....Please explain it to me JuanCarlosValdez.....Please! I really want to know why you think that is lame? Seriously! Keep it simple for my mind. I REALLY want to understand your reasoning....seriously! They have been building for a couple of years. If they were to be shutdown they should've been shut down within the first year of building guitars. That's why I think it's lame. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Possibly.....IF after TWO years of "losing their arse"....they said "enough is enough" OR possibly the EPA got on their case THIS year and not the first year?? We do not sit in on their corporate board meetings. How do we really know? They, reportedly were not "shut down".....but simply made a business decision to "shut down" after grief from the EPA....is the way it was reported by Hogeye. Such a crock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I was just talking with a luthier who said all guitar makers would be better serving their guitars if they cut down on all the crap they spray on them. He'd recently rebuilt a J-45 and shellacked the top and said it sounded 100x better than a factory guitar just for that move alone. All I know I get tired of sticking to my guitars. I'd love to see them less glopped up. I'm down with this too, Smurfy. I like 'em light and dry. Good angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hey JC, I am not trying to be confrontational about this, but since you and kidblast think it is lame....humor me for a moment. Economics 101 Lets say you, JC, are the CEO of a company in Realville, USA. You make 'widgets' that sell for $5.99. They are bought and loved by thousands of consumers. Your business thrives. One day you get a notice from a Government agency saying that your 'widgets' are unsafe for the buying public and you must devise a safety device to your 'widget' before you can sell anymore. You discover that the cost of adding the safety device would add $2.49 to each unit. You then decide to add $3.00 to each unit to recoup some of the cost for 'tooling' up to add the safety device and 'maintain' the profit margin needed to operate and employ workers. So, you hit the street at $8.99 only to find that people are not willing to pay 3 bucks more for your 'widget' and further find out that the 'safety device' is a big "pain in their arse"......and they instead buy the 'old-style' widget from Japan. It is still cheaper, even with shipping, and functions like they want without the safety device. To me, its that simple! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Westerly, Corona, Tacoma, and now New Hartford. You forgot New York City and Hoboken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 If JC was in the widget business, he'd never be able to buy such beautiful guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 You forgot New York City and Hoboken. I'm referring only to Fender's tenure of ownership. Ten to one they could have left it in Westerly & been just fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hey JC, I am not trying to be confrontational about this, but since you and kidblast think it is lame....humor me for a moment. Economics 101 Lets say you, JC, are the CEO of a company in Realville, USA. You make 'widgets' that sell for $5.99. They are bought and loved by thousands of consumers. Your business thrives. One day you get a notice from a Government agency saying that your 'widgets' are unsafe for the buying public and you must devise a safety device to your 'widget' before you can sell anymore. You discover that the cost of adding the safety device would add $2.49 to each unit. You then decide to add $3.00 to each unit to recoup some of the cost for 'tooling' up to add the safety device and 'maintain' the profit margin needed to operate and employ workers. So, you hit the street at $8.99 only to find that people are not willing to pay 3 bucks more for your 'widget' and further find out that the 'safety device' is a big "pain in their arse"......and they instead buy the 'old-style' widget from Japan. It is still cheaper, even with shipping, and functions like they want without the safety device. To me, its that simple! Rod That's business sense alright. But not the reason given . Nitro in a populated area was the reason . while everyone would agree that factories shouldn't be polluting folk , in the grand scheme of things though ..... I'm certain there's bigger fish to fry than this episode. Its cheaper to build them elsewhere , simple . But as has been already reported - I'm not on the board there and we're all speculating fools Maybe the owners are all having trouble sleeping and sitting in the corner of their big houses crying into their silk hankies over the regret and pain this will cause them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Maybe the owners are all having trouble sleeping and sitting in the corner of their big houses crying into their silk hankies over the regret and pain this will cause them I have a hard time 'prescribing' to that theory. I think that they could "give a **** less"....and I don't 'blame them'.... bizzness is bizzness.....when it ain't profitable due to Government fascism....you "get the hell out"...Capisce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Makes me want to get a D-55 Natural before I can't anymore. Just what I need, one more guitar. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 .. but the EPA had issues with them using Nitro in a populated area.. ... no wonder the stuff smells so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ... no wonder the stuff smells so good. it smells nice after its cured...I'm building a strat and have been shooting nitro when the weather cooperates. I never realized how nasty that stuff is. I couldn't imagine shooting that stuff day after day...year after year. And I love a nitrocellulose lacquer finish...I bet the EPA made a good decision for the neighborhood. That said...its a sad day for Guild and its fans...a recently saw couple of the Orpheum Guilds. All I can say is get one if you have a chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think a very important thing to remember is that the ball is resting in Fender's court regarding the plant closure. We are not privy to Fender's corporate discussions resulting in their decision. We do not know how long the EPA has been working with Fender on this issue, how far out of compliance the plant is, what it would take to get into compliance, etc, etc. Fender is a major big box, internet player. That's where they make a lot of their money, just like Gibson. Their goal is to go toe to toe for industry dominance, covering as many corners of the market as possible. But three previous times, their Guild model has failed and they've shut down a viable, functioning plant. Sadly, New Hartford will be number four. Why did they shut down Westerly, hire Bob Benedetto for Corona, and then move on? Why did they buy Tacoma Guitars and then give up on the plant? What did they think New Hartford offered that they didn't already have in Tacoma (and note that Tacoma built very nice guitars before corporate Fender purchased them and decided their fate). Only Fender's brain-trust knows for sure, but I have always wondered why their vision for Guild has appeared so scattered. I do think Fender has had good intentions in trying to make the brand viable again, as their hiring of Ren would certainly confirm. But let's not forget what has historically occurred at Fender. If Guild resurrection attempt #1, 2, or 3 didn't fit the vision in Scottsdale, it pretty quickly got scuttled, each time after a major financial outlay. And each time, a skilled workforce was already in place and producing some very nice guitars, just like in New Hartford. The EPA has said the plant's nitro emissions are out of compliance. Fender has said we're not spending the money to be in compliance, so we're outta here. Seems that simple on a surface level. But given Fender's cut & run history with Guild, it would be very interesting to know exactly why the suits plotted their current course - whatever it may be. As always, there will be two sides to any given story, and we probably know precious little about this unfortunate tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR GIBS Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Makes me want to get a D-55 Natural before I can't anymore. Just what I need, one more guitar. Aster 3 months ago I did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Am wondering what the failures are all about. I'm thinking that guild is quite a well thought of name in the guitar industry. Good reviews , still seen in the hands of many 'idols' . A new name has the task of breaking into a market and becoming one of the big boys . theres Gibson and martin and then surely guild would be the third name on lips. Taylor and a few others are in there but the history that guild carries should be an ace in their hand. They have a highly recognisable and excellent quality item and yet seems they have trouble making it all work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think a very important thing to remember is that the ball is resting in Fender's court regarding the plant closure. We are not privy to Fender's corporate discussions resulting in their decision. We do not know how long the EPA has been working with Fender on this issue, how far out of compliance the plant is, what it would take to get into compliance, etc, etc. Fender is a major big box, internet player. That's where they make a lot of their money, just like Gibson. Their goal is to go toe to toe for industry dominance, covering as many corners of the market as possible. But three previous times, their Guild model has failed and they've shut down a viable, functioning plant. Sadly, New Hartford will be number four. Why did they shut down Westerly, hire Bob Benedetto for Corona, and then move on? Why did they buy Tacoma Guitars and then give up on the plant? What did they think New Hartford offered that they didn't already have in Tacoma (and note that Tacoma built very nice guitars before corporate Fender purchased them and decided their fate). Only Fender's brain-trust knows for sure, but I have always wondered why their vision for Guild has appeared so scattered. I do think Fender has had good intentions in trying to make the brand viable again, as their hiring of Ren would certainly confirm. But let's not forget what has historically occurred at Fender. If Guild resurrection attempt #1, 2, or 3 didn't fit the vision in Scottsdale, it pretty quickly got scuttled, each time after a major financial outlay. And each time, a skilled workforce was already in place and producing some very nice guitars, just like in New Hartford. The EPA has said the plant's nitro emissions are out of compliance. Fender has said we're not spending the money to be in compliance, so we're outta here. Seems that simple on a surface level. But given Fender's cut & run history with Guild, it would be very interesting to know exactly why the suits plotted their current course - whatever it may be. As always, there will be two sides to any given story, and we probably know precious little about this unfortunate tale. When I started this thread I did so with the sole purpose of letting some of Ren's friends how he was doing. Bobouz your reply is the most well thought out. There is more to this story and it will be told at a later date but not by me. Ren told me some things in confidence and I will keep it that way. For the most part all of the speculation is way off base and we shouldn't be upset with Fender as they had some pretty difficult decisions to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 What I seem to know is that Guild has been building fine instruments for damn -near a century in several locations. Fender takes over and then EPA problems. Is something not "rotten" here? What has changed? Manufacturing practices or Government regulation?? A lot of 'mysterious' GREY area here, IMHO. Someone knows!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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